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    • DREKLY
    • By DREKLY 1st May 17, 10:41 PM
    • 129 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    DREKLY
    As Molerat says, SOMEWHERE there is a timer that switches you E7 on,
    and if it's an old mechanical timer (black rounded box with 24hr large dial)
    or a smaller timer with pins that can be repositioned to different clock times,
    .... BOTH can be incorrectly adjusted....
    Most E7 timers now seem to be turned on by a radio signal sensor,
    but the best way to see WHAT time it comes on, is to observe the dual meter, and see when rate 2 (the E7 tariff) starts blinking, you will of course have to find out where that dual (white?) meter is situated,
    it could be outside your premises in a hall cupboard - ask your landlord
    for help if you can't see it yourself.... you are paying him, after all !
    Good Luck
    16 x Enhance 250w panels + SolarEdge Inverter + TREES
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 7th May 17, 11:10 AM
    • 5,935 Posts
    • 27,887 Thanks
    pineapple
    My storage heaters can be switched on or off at a wall socket - with a light to show if they are charging or not. So if they are switched on, it is easy to tell when the cheap rate starts/finishes as they go on/off automatically. Due to a teleswitch I believe. Unfortunately - till I get the plumbing sorted - this cottage doesn't have an actual water tank and my only sources of hot water (apart from the kettle!) are an electric shower and a nasty little wall heater in the kitchen. So in the morning I run round like an idiot trying to get all my electric/hot water jobs done before 8.17 - which is when I switch to the expensive day rate. I also fill two catering urns with hot water for use during the day and make full use of the top of my multifuel stove for cooking/hot water at night.
    • richardwilson1984
    • By richardwilson1984 10th May 17, 9:43 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    richardwilson1984
    Does the seven hour cheaper electricity cover all sockets or is it just those where the NSH indicator lights come on when the hours are in play?

    Apologies, it sounds so daft. I think it is all sockets but I'm not sure if a socket would need to be specifically wired.
    • deficit
    • By deficit 15th May 17, 5:54 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    deficit
    'Related' MPANS on Economy meter
    Anyone able to advise on which companies can handle 'related MPANs' (MPAN being the reference number that identifies a single supply of electricity)? My meter has 2 channels (standard Economy 7 tariff with Utility Warehouse, though the meter actually says 'Economy 9' on it) but each of the two channels has a different reference number in the national database, which is a non-standard configuration. I have tried to switch 4 times now and 4 different companies have had to cancel their switches because they can't handle this. I could have the MPANs unrelated but Utility Warehouse are telling me that to do so would require my supply be disconnected and I would be without supply, not sure how long for. I'm currently wasting a good £400 a year by not being able to switch from Utility Warehouse so I'm keen to get this sorted but without losing my electricity supply for any length of time. When I first move in here i switched from EDF to Utility Warehouse, is it only major, expensive companies that can handle this configuration? It's rented accommodation if that makes a difference
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 15th May 17, 7:14 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
    • 1,414 Thanks
    footyguy
    Anyone able to advise on which companies can handle 'related MPANs' (MPAN being the reference number that identifies a single supply of electricity)? My meter has 2 channels (standard Economy 7 tariff with Utility Warehouse, though the meter actually says 'Economy 9' on it) but each of the two channels has a different reference number in the national database, which is a non-standard configuration. I have tried to switch 4 times now and 4 different companies have had to cancel their switches because they can't handle this. I could have the MPANs unrelated but Utility Warehouse are telling me that to do so would require my supply be disconnected and I would be without supply, not sure how long for. I'm currently wasting a good £400 a year by not being able to switch from Utility Warehouse so I'm keen to get this sorted but without losing my electricity supply for any length of time. When I first move in here i switched from EDF to Utility Warehouse, is it only major, expensive companies that can handle this configuration? It's rented accommodation if that makes a difference
    Originally posted by deficit
    This article is about Economy 7

    If you have related MPANs, you do not have economy 7, but rather a legacy tariff.

    Do not attempt to switch supplier with this type of metering.

    Whoops too late! Thanks for confirming that those that do invariably end up in tears.

    Your best bet now is to contact your legacy supplier and see if they will accept you onto the legacy tariff ... but they are under no obligation to do so.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by footyguy; 15-05-2017 at 7:18 PM.
    • Rossjp
    • By Rossjp 20th May 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Rossjp
    Best to change from Economy 7?
    Hello, Im on Eco 7 plan, and paying between £150-200 a month on a semi detached (depending on season) this is killing me, so wondering if I change to a "normal" plan there might be significant savings to be made? is there a calculator online to help work this out? I have just switched suppliers (another costly nightmare!!) so i wouldn't think they can help with this.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 20th May 17, 12:53 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
    • 1,414 Thanks
    footyguy
    Hello, Im on Eco 7 plan, and paying between £150-200 a month on a semi detached (depending on season) this is killing me, so wondering if I change to a "normal" plan there might be significant savings to be made? is there a calculator online to help work this out? I have just switched suppliers (another costly nightmare!!) so i wouldn't think they can help with this.
    Originally posted by Rossjp
    Hello, and welcome to MSE

    Please read the article as it details in full how to check whether you'd be better off with an Economy 7 tariff.

    Good luck!
    • Jodie B
    • By Jodie B 29th Aug 17, 5:02 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jodie B
    Using a standard tariff with an E7 meter
    Hi,
    We had no experience of Economy 7 when we moved to our current home, so I chose a standard tariff as usual, from NPower online, paying monthly by direct debit. They allowed us to use this in spite of our E7 meter and didn't require us to change our meter. We were advised to report both the peak and off peak readings, and the results were simply added together to calculate our charge.


    Over a year later I now find that we use only 15% of our energy at night, so I'd fortunately made the right decision! I therefore moved to Engie on an "online only" offer at a standard tariff by unclicking the auto populated button (based on my address) that said I wanted an E7 tariff.


    My quote showed the total payment I was expecting, but it still showed that I wanted an E7 tariff. The numbers didn't add up, so I then rang the supplier to query this. I was told that I could have the standard tariff on offer online, but that their technical team would need to tweak my online account so I could submit my dual readings. I am told that this will take two weeks but that it shouldn't affect my bill, as long as it the work had been completed before I receive my first "bill" in 3 months time.


    To date Engie haven't asked me to change my meter either.


    So it seems that you can ask suppliers to give you a standard tariff in spite of having and Economy 7 meter. They don't advertise this and it appears that it's a bit of work for them, but as long as you discuss your needs immediately after signing up (within the 14 day cooling off period) so, to date, I'd say it may be worth trying this if you don't wish to change your meter but don't expect to gain from Economy 7.
    • huudi
    • By huudi 31st Aug 17, 9:50 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    huudi
    Your 12' ceiling doesn't help, heat rises (if you have any) and that's 4' to 5' of the room that you never get to. On the same tack is the floor cold?, I had a similar setup long ago with only a concrete floor between my feet and the outside world, my feet were freezing. Sounds like they quoted £40 per month to get a client in, in reality its probably unfit for habitation.
    • huudi
    • By huudi 31st Aug 17, 9:57 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    huudi
    Hi everyone,

    I'm a first time forum poster, so please bear with me as I hope to provide enough details to get some (friendly? ) help and advice.

    I've recently (last 2 weeks) moved into a flat inside of a converted coach house. It's a private rental but I am liable for all of the bills, which was also the case at my previous property. My previous flat had Economy 7 so I was already aware of the peak/off-peak situation but the situation here is a bit different.

    I am a fairly energy conscious single occupant who works full time (Out of the house from roughly 6:30am - 5:30pm Mon-Fri) and was previously on a monthly direct debit of £26 with OVO. I was told that my new flat is EPC Rated C and is on a pay as you go meter with Ecotricity and that the previous tenants (of which there were 2, working at differing hours) paid around £40 between them a month for the electricity.

    The rate is 18.89p Day, 6.78p Night with a 20.37p standing charge.
    The average split on the meter seems to be 55% Day and 45% Night.
    Off peak hours are Midnight - 7am as confirmed by Ecotricity.

    However, I am struggling in two ways; the first is figuring out where on Earth all of my money is going from the meter. I have topped up £40 just over a week ago and it has all but gone. All that I have had running is the built-in fridge freezer on the lowest settings (A+ rated, 0.85 kwh per day), one energy saving light bulb in the evenings when I get home and my phone on to charge for a couple of hours on the nightly rate.

    I have been deliberately eating out (Oven & hob have remained off, microwave unplugged), washing at a friends (Tiny undercounter water tank, unlagged, on a timer which has remained off) and only using clothes & blankets for warmth (2 storage heaters. One which I tested for one night but other than that have remained off at the wall) as I just cannot figure out where all the money I'm topping up with is going. I called Ecotricity and they told me that there is no outstanding debt on the meter and as far as they can tell no faults which would cause this to happen.

    My second issue is heating. The flat consists of one main room with a mezzanine/balcony "bedroom". For those of you who love numbers, I will provide dimensions:

    Main room
    (including open plan kitchen area & balcony bedroom): L: 5.1m (16' 9") W: 6m (19' 8") H: 3.6m (12")
    For a total of 110 cubic metres (3884 cubic feet).

    In this I have 2 storage heaters, they seem to be fairly old with only an on/off switch at the wall and Input & Output dials (1-6).
    One is beneath two quite large windows (Each one 31 sq ft) and the other in a corner beneath a slightly smaller window.
    I turned the storage heater on beneath the two large windows at 11pm (Input 6, Output 1) and at 7am (I was not working) cranked up the output to see how warm it would get.
    Within about 15 minutes it had only gotten barely warm, I could comfortably keep both of my hands rested on the vents with no problem, despite it having charged all night and being on maximum output shortly before touching it. I don't know if the storage heaters are faulty or simply inadequate to warm a room of this size because I have to say, in the evening/night it is ABSOLUTELY FREEZING! (I'm talking hat, sweatshirt, 2 pairs of thermal socks, sleeping bag + 2 blankets and still can't feel my feet freezing!) It also cost me around £3.50 for those few hours of charging the one heater.


    Anyway, in summary for those of you who are still awake

    1. Does anyone know of any reason why my metered credit would be being used up so quickly despite having next to no power using appliances on?

    I used MSE's Cheap Energy Club comparison which recommended me Utilita's Smart Economy 7 Tariff but if there is something seriously wrong I obviously want to remedy that before switching suppliers.

    2. Does anyone have any helpful advice/ideas on how I can keep this place warm without it costing a fortune?
    The storage heaters just seem to eat up credit and do very little else.


    I apologise for the length of the post and thank anyone in advance who takes the time to read and respond to my woes.

    "Warm" wishes,

    2Of5
    Originally posted by 2Of5
    Your 12' ceiling doesn't help, heat rises (if you have any) and that's 4' to 5' of the room that you never get to. On the same tack is the floor cold?, I had a similar setup long ago with only a concrete floor between my feet and the outside world, my feet were freezing. Sounds like they quoted £40 per month to get a client in, in reality its probably unfit for habitation.
    • huudi
    • By huudi 31st Aug 17, 10:07 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    huudi
    Does the seven hour cheaper electricity cover all sockets or is it just those where the NSH indicator lights come on when the hours are in play?

    Apologies, it sounds so daft. I think it is all sockets but I'm not sure if a socket would need to be specifically wired.
    Originally posted by richardwilson1984
    Its trial & error for you. If you have 2 meters then its Heaters only, if one meter then it probably includes sockets unless it has a separate meter connection for Heaters. I suggest you take readings at night, plug in an Electric fire for an hour, then see which has moved.
    note: my E10 includes sockets at night but not during daytime top-up hours.
    • ThinkCoach
    • By ThinkCoach 1st Sep 17, 11:13 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ThinkCoach
    How to switch from NPower Heatwise to Eon Econ 7?
    Hi,
    We are on Npower's Heatwise 2 plan. We only have Electric and have 2 x storage heaters plus 2 x electric heaters (ex army house and original 1970's installation I believe).

    Eon have advised us to ask Npower to change our meter to an Economy 7 one before we can switch to them, however neighbours (with same meters) have reported being told by Npower that is isn't possible without a rewiring of the hot water system.
    Apparently EON also have said that by around now (early Sept), the Heatwise tariff will be defunct and we'll pay the same price for electric around the clock, so switching to Economy 7 is definitely our best option.

    Can anyone advise how best for us to approach this please before we start a potential merry dance of frustrating communications with NPower? Past history doesn't bode well for a satisfactory outcome with them.

    Thanks in advance.
    • ARK5
    • By ARK5 11th Sep 17, 8:42 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    ARK5
    Economy 7 tariff and low night-time elec use
    I am in the process of switching to OneSelect, as recommended by the CEC calculator on MSE. When I moved to this house, I inherited an Economy 7 meter but I decided I would look to change the tariff as I don't meet most of the criteria for having Economy 7, as per the MSE advice, namely:

    - You have storage heaters and preferably a hot water tank too
    - You need to use as much electricity as possible at night (at least 40%)

    Well, I don't have storage heaters or a hot water tank and the only things I make sure I always do at night (even though I'd rather not) are washing/drying and using the dishwasher so it's not surprising my night-time usage is only 25-26%. So I thought it was a no-brainer to switch out of Economy 7 and OneSelect say they can add night and day readings together if you switch. However, I compared costs for Economy 7 and non-Economy 7 and, to the surprise also of the helpful guy at OneSelect who also did a comparison, sticking with it is actually at least £30 a year cheaper. I know that's not a lot but it just goes to show it's not cut and dried.

    I'll check again next time I do a comparison but for now I'm sticking with Economy 7 despite my low night-time electricity consumption. It's probably not the same for everyone or with all other suppliers but please do check carefully first before moving from an Economy 7 tariff even if, like me, you use relatively little night-time electricity.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 11th Sep 17, 10:29 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,997 Thanks
    Cardew

    I'll check again next time I do a comparison but for now I'm sticking with Economy 7 despite my low night-time electricity consumption. It's probably not the same for everyone or with all other suppliers but please do check carefully first before moving from an Economy 7 tariff even if, like me, you use relatively little night-time electricity.
    Originally posted by ARK5
    This has been discussed many times over the years.

    The guideline used to be 30% of the total consumption at off-peak to make E7 cheaper.

    However that has varied by company, tariff and geographic area from as high as 50% to 0%*

    * there was a situation with a company where their E7 tariff had daytime rates lower than on their 24/7 tariff.
    • ARK5
    • By ARK5 12th Sep 17, 1:10 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    ARK5
    This has been discussed many times over the years.

    The guideline used to be 30% of the total consumption at off-peak to make E7 cheaper.

    However that has varied by company, tariff and geographic area from as high as 50% to 0%*

    * there was a situation with a company where their E7 tariff had daytime rates lower than on their 24/7 tariff.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Oh ok, thanks. I googled it and checked a few recent pages here but couldn't find anything. I just thought people should be reminded you definitely don't need 40% night-time usage to be better off on E7 as that seems to be common advice - apologies if I was repeating what is already known. Cheers.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 12th Sep 17, 4:41 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,997 Thanks
    Cardew
    Oh ok, thanks. I googled it and checked a few recent pages here but couldn't find anything. I just thought people should be reminded you definitely don't need 40% night-time usage to be better off on E7 as that seems to be common advice - apologies if I was repeating what is already known. Cheers.
    Originally posted by ARK5
    No need for an apology, it was good advice for new people reading the forum; and the situation changes regularly.

    Another factor is lifestyle. Some people get up early and can shower, have breakfast etc whilst property is still using off-peak.
    • ARK5
    • By ARK5 12th Sep 17, 4:59 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    ARK5
    No need for an apology, it was good advice for new people reading the forum; and the situation changes regularly.

    Another factor is lifestyle. Some people get up early and can shower, have breakfast etc whilst property is still using off-peak.
    Originally posted by Cardew


    Absolutely true about lifestyle. Sadly, although I am usually up late, I am unlikely to be using any/much electricity at 1.30am, which is when my E7 kicks in during the summer, so I was looking forward to being free of it and to not having to remember to put the dishwasher on before 7.00am, for example (it's wired in at the wall, so I can't use a plug-in timer). I'll keep an eye on it anyway as things may change.
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 13th Sep 17, 2:50 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    Raxiel
    Hi,
    We had no experience of Economy 7 when we moved to our current home, so I chose a standard tariff as usual, from NPower online, paying monthly by direct debit. They allowed us to use this in spite of our E7 meter and didn't require us to change our meter. We were advised to report both the peak and off peak readings, and the results were simply added together to calculate our charge.


    Over a year later I now find that we use only 15% of our energy at night, so I'd fortunately made the right decision! I therefore moved to Engie on an "online only" offer at a standard tariff by unclicking the auto populated button (based on my address) that said I wanted an E7 tariff.


    My quote showed the total payment I was expecting, but it still showed that I wanted an E7 tariff. The numbers didn't add up, so I then rang the supplier to query this. I was told that I could have the standard tariff on offer online, but that their technical team would need to tweak my online account so I could submit my dual readings. I am told that this will take two weeks but that it shouldn't affect my bill, as long as it the work had been completed before I receive my first "bill" in 3 months time.


    To date Engie haven't asked me to change my meter either.


    So it seems that you can ask suppliers to give you a standard tariff in spite of having and Economy 7 meter. They don't advertise this and it appears that it's a bit of work for them, but as long as you discuss your needs immediately after signing up (within the 14 day cooling off period) so, to date, I'd say it may be worth trying this if you don't wish to change your meter but don't expect to gain from Economy 7.
    Originally posted by Jodie B
    Its a bit of work for some companies, some companies already have everything in place to combine the readings (presumably they just create an 'e7' tariff that has the same rates for both day and night)

    From my own personal experience E.ON and Iresa do it, among others.
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