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  • FIRST POST
    Bexm
    storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?
    • #1
    • 17th May 07, 12:54 PM
    storage heaters/electric central heating or gas? 17th May 07 at 12:54 PM
    Hello!

    I know there are a few posts similar to this but cannot find one giving the advice I need (if you know of one please direct me!)

    We have just moved into a 2 bed house, it has one small 15yr old storage heater in the living room, an electric towel rail in the bath room, and a wall mounted electric ("blowy") heater in each of the bedrooms!

    We have set the storage heater going and it makes the house nice and warm in the morning, but not so much in the evening, which is useless as we are generally out from 8-6.
    It's not that cold out at the moment so when winter comes we will be freezing!

    Currently there is no gas connected to the house, but we can get it connected for around 3-4 hundred (i think).

    We only intend in staying in the property for about 5 years.

    The thing we are trying to work out is what's going to work out the best for us? We need to do something about the storage heater as its not effective enough, and the electric heaters expensive to run.

    We are considering installing either electric or gas central heating or maybe upgrading and adding some more storage heaters, and use some low wattage "plug in" heaters as extra in the evening.

    We also want to take in to consideration any value any of this will add to the house when we go to sell.

    Has anyone been in this situation? Or got any advice?
    We don't know average costs of things yet as we haven't lived there long enough, but we want to sort something out before winter!

    Thanks in advance!

    Bex
Page 8
  • Cardew
    Sorry Nick

    Was only thinking for me. I'm out the house alot and therefor don't need heating while Im out and about. I generally find coming home and turning the heaters on when I need it in the evenings works better for me. After about an hour my front room has warmed up from typically 13 degrees to 22 degrees and the heater kicks on and off to keep it at that temp.
    Originally posted by amtrakuk
    As Nick said the advantage of electrical heating is the flexibility it has for ‘on demand’ applications.

    Oil filled radiators slow to warm up but with residual heat.

    Fan heaters and granny’s 1/2/3 bar fire giving ‘instant’ heat but no residual heat.

    Infra-red heaters having the ability to ‘direct’ heat. A pal of mine works a lot at a bench in a huge unheated garage and simply directs the ‘beam’ of heat at himself.

    The most important point to make however, is that no electrical heating system(other than heat pumps) produces any more heat for your ‘dollar’ than any other system – and that includes all the vastly overpriced systems that are ‘pushed’ on this money saving website by disingenuous salesmen.
  • amtrakuk
    Caredrew... Grannys bar heater started with just one bar... Has she had an upgrade
  • Cardew
    Caredrew... Grannys bar heater started with just one bar... Has she had an upgrade
    Originally posted by amtrakuk
    She has indeed!

    and she has a Apple Macbook Pro with Intel Core 2 Duo!

    We have stopped her riding the Harley-Davidson though.
  • Inactive
    the calculation of storage heater costs has to be theoretical, where as ours are proved. The other reason is many customer testimonials about cost savings where they have run both systems, having been unhappy with the night storage and changed to ours.
    Originally posted by Electrorad

    Yea right, am I alone in thinking that this guy is only here to SPAM the forum with his biased waffle, we all know that " customer testemonials " are usually produced by the companies in question.

  • Electrorad
    Cardew,
    If you would like to send me a message via our website with either your e.mail address or snail mail address I will provide the test data report from the test centre so you can see for yourself the ability of this product.
    I think you will find that it will soon be endorsed by all the powers that be in the energy/heating establishment.
    BRE have studied the test results and agree that it deserves further investigation by them to establish if a better SAP rating should be awarded due to the potential energy savings.
    Please tell me you respect the findings of the experts at BRE?


    To others,
    All customer testimonials are genuine and original copies available on request.

    Please try and open your minds to the possibility that there is a new storage heating technology available. Read the info available and make up your own minds.
  • Inactive
    Yet more
    If they were any good you would have customers knocking at your door, instead of spamming a forum with your sales bilge.:rolleyes:
  • Electrorad
    They are!! but thanks for your concern
  • nick74
    BRE have studied the test results and agree that it deserves further investigation by them to establish if a better SAP rating should be awarded due to the potential energy savings.
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    I was involved in the research leading to the adoption of the SAP rating system in the mid 1990's. I suspect your chances are slim.
    Last edited by nick74; 12-01-2008 at 5:55 PM.
  • Cardew
    Cardew,
    If you would like to send me a message via our website with either your e.mail address or snail mail address I will provide the test data report from the test centre so you can see for yourself the ability of this product.
    I think you will find that it will soon be endorsed by all the powers that be in the energy/heating establishment.
    BRE have studied the test results and agree that it deserves further investigation by them to establish if a better SAP rating should be awarded due to the potential energy savings.
    Please tell me you respect the findings of the experts at BRE?


    To others,
    All customer testimonials are genuine and original copies available on request.

    Please try and open your minds to the possibility that there is a new storage heating technology available. Read the info available and make up your own minds.
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    You really don't understand do you? Or are you deliberately obfuscating? Attempting to ‘blind us with science’ will simply not work.

    If this hypothetical/theoretical/actual room under any combination of conditions can be shown to be heated for 4p an hour by your system – so be it. That is not the issue.

    I will say this S L O W L Y!

    Firstly, I am stating unequivocally that any form of electrical heating, like a £30 oil filled radiator, will produce exactly the same amount of heat for the money e.g. the 4p an hour.

    Secondly, it is your implied message that somehow ELECTRORAD produces more heat than other electrical systems that is distasteful and indeed deceptive.

    So would you like to go into print and say that your 2kW radiator produces more heat output, or is cheaper to run, than the Dimplex oil filled radiator range shown here?

    http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/portable_heating/oil_filled_radiators/index.htm

    Bearing in mind Dimplex ltd might have an interest in your reply.

    Unless you understand, and answer, that point there really isn’t much point in you contributing further.

    Normally I would hope that the Moderators would remove such obvious and misleading SPAM as contained in your post. However it did occur to me that prospective buyers might just ‘Google’ the name Electrorad. Doing so will produce this thread and alert them to the demerits of the system; the internet is wonderful for spreading the word.

    With any luck an attempt to spam this site will turn into a massive ‘own goal’!
  • Cardew
    Actually, the Advertising Standards Authority have queried these figures already, but having seen the evidence from a UKAS regulated testing centre they have approved our media advertising of less than 3p per hour running costs.
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    Yet another attempt to imply something that doesn't stack up when you look at the facts. From the above quote one might deduce the Advertising Standards Authority(ASA) were happy with your advertising; even that your claims had the ASA's blessing.

    Well this reads somewhat differently to me:

    http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_42110.htm

    In fact all 3 parts of the complaint were upheld by the ASA and it was found that Electrosave had breached the code in every case in terms of 'substantiation' and 'truthfulness'.

    In fact in your company's reponse to the complaint they admitted that their system produces no more heat than any other electrical system.

    Your definition of efficiency was that the clay plates retained heat better than say a convector heater.
  • Inactive
    They are!! but thanks for your concern
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    Well they must be highly gullible then, if they believe the clap trap put out by you and your company.

    Why the need for the constant then if you are so busy?

    :rolleyes:
  • espresso
    After being told by the ASA to remove the claim "Running costs from 2p per hour" from future ads unless they held appropriate documentary evidence to support them, they now state in their ads "Heat an average sized room for just 3 pence per hour"


    Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..
  • Inactive
    At Electrorad U.K. Ltd we market a 'dynamic storage heater' from Germany, trademark Aeroflow. They offer radiant and convection heat, and very low running costs.
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    Which part of this do you not understand?

    Don't post links for personal gain. Except in the referrers section and always declare any interest.

    To be found at the top of forum pages.


  • Ashie
    Hi all, new here with a quick question.
    Our detatched large bungalow in Cornwall has oil fired (combi) central heating, we do not have mains gas. We are refurbishing a one room en-suite annex for my elderly mother. Is it better to put in radiators from our existing boiler or separate electric heating, bearing in mind that she will need heat all day whereas the rest of the house will not? It will be awkward to remember to keep turning off the radiators in the rest of the house.
    The hot water to the annex will be taken from our boiler.
    Many thanks in advance.
  • Electrorad
    1. The ASA adjudication was due to them not accepting evidence from Germany, since they have had our UK independent test data we are cleared to advertise as little as 3p per hour running costs. But feel free to contact them for verification of this if you so wish.

    2. I have never said that we produce more heat per kw. For example, all 2kw elements produce the same amount of heat.
    where products differ is how they distribute the heat. Surface area is very important in radiant heating as all heating engineers will tell you and the ratio of radiant/convection heat produced.

    Running costs can be reduced by the element transferring the generated heat to a storage medium. Oil will retain heat longer than water, stone will retain heat longer than oil. If heat is stored and continues to emit heat into the room to maintain the room temperature after the electricity is switched off by the thermostat, then the electricity will not need to switch back on as often or for as long to MAINTAIN a room temperature as with a system without a storage medium. Thus reducing electricity usage.
  • nick74
    Running costs can be reduced by the element transferring the generated heat to a storage medium. Oil will retain heat longer than water, stone will retain heat longer than oil. If heat is stored and continues to emit heat into the room to maintain the room temperature after the electricity is switched off by the thermostat, then the electricity will not need to switch back on as often or for as long to MAINTAIN a room temperature as with a system without a storage medium. Thus reducing electricity usage.
    Originally posted by Electrorad


    Do you honestly believe that?!
  • Cardew
    1. The ASA adjudication was due to them not accepting evidence from Germany, since they have had our UK independent test data we are cleared to advertise as little as 3p per hour running costs. But feel free to contact them for verification of this if you so wish.

    2. I have never said that we produce more heat per kw. For example, all 2kw elements produce the same amount of heat.
    where products differ is how they distribute the heat. Surface area is very important in radiant heating as all heating engineers will tell you and the ratio of radiant/convection heat produced.

    Running costs can be reduced by the element transferring the generated heat to a storage medium. Oil will retain heat longer than water, stone will retain heat longer than oil. If heat is stored and continues to emit heat into the room to maintain the room temperature after the electricity is switched off by the thermostat, then the electricity will not need to switch back on as often or for as long to MAINTAIN a room temperature as with a system without a storage medium. Thus reducing electricity usage.
    Originally posted by Electrorad
    Have you actually read the ASA adjudication?

    The cost to run a room, was but a small part of their report. The damning conclusion was that you were untruthful in that:

    the claim implied consumers would save energy and money if they used Electrorad's product instead of their current heating method.

    and

    we considered that we had not seen evidence to show that consumers were likely to save energy and money if they were to switch from their current mode of heating to Electrorad heaters.



    Yet on the internet(where the ASA have no jurisdiction - yet) you are still implying exactly what the ASA deemed untruthful.

    Anyway to move on to your latest stupid claim:

    We finally have an admission that your heaters(costing £thousands for a system?) produce no more heat than any other electrical heater, including Granny’s 1/2/3/ bar fire. Or to use a system similar to yours, the £30 oil filled radiator.

    So having established all electrical heaters produce the same amount of heat, you now make the ludicrous claims that by retaining heat your radiators Running costs can be reduced ----- Thus reducing electricity usage”

    Well you are quite correct that the higher the specific density of a material, the longer it retains heat and thus will continue to release that heat over a longer period. (a good argument for solid iron radiators )

    Now heat is energy. Therefore as your radiator only gives out the same total energy(heat) as any other heater, but spreads out the period over which it gives out that heat , what is your conclusion?

    Could it possibly be that the rate of releasing that energy(heat) would be lower than a system that didn’t retain heat for as long?

    Or have you found a way of defying the laws of physics? In that you somehow produce more output of heat than is input?

    To heat this room of yours for 24 hours to yy degreesC for xx pence would cost exactly the same as any other electrical heater.

    You quite obviously are a salesman with zero technical knowledge - either that or you are simply telling lies. (untruthful, in the sense the ASA use it, is defined in Webster's as "telling lies")

    I suggest to get out of the hole you have dug for yourself – you stop digging. Just accept that your bogus claims have been exposed and, as I said at the beginning, go and seek a more gullible audience.

    Unfortunately there are plenty of suckers who are taken in by these sort of outrageous claims; the pity is they are normally the people who can least afford to be taken for a ride.

    However it keeps you in a job I suppose.
    Last edited by Cardew; 13-01-2008 at 7:55 PM.
  • espresso
    Remember to read the small print:

    The Seller stipulates that no guarantee is given regarding the performance or running costs of the Goods. Any performance figures quoted in the Seller’s literature are for guidance only and are not specific. The figures are based on average temperatures for an area as determined by the MET. office.
    :rolleyes:
    Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..
  • samtheman1k
    Running costs can be reduced by the element transferring the generated heat to a storage medium. Oil will retain heat longer than water, stone will retain heat longer than oil. If heat is stored and continues to emit heat into the room to maintain the room temperature after the electricity is switched off by the thermostat, then the electricity will not need to switch back on as often or for as long to MAINTAIN a room temperature as with a system without a storage medium. Thus reducing electricity usage.
    Originally posted by Electrorad

    Yes, but what you fail to understand is that in order to maintain heat for longer, you need to put more heat in in the first place (and this is stored for slow release). Hmm...sounds like a normal storage heater :rolleyes:
    Last edited by samtheman1k; 18-01-2008 at 9:06 AM.
  • Terrylw1
    Somebody on here, forget who but they worked for a Utility company, said that all companies must provide E10; however some are reluctant to do so. Might be worth a query with Energywatch to see if that is true.

    Rather than pay 5+p for E10, plus a premium for electricity during the other 14 hours, a flat rate of 7+p 24/7 could be an option??? The advantage being that the COP will be higher during the day when it is warmer.

    Decisions, Decisions!!

    At least after monitoring your consumption for a while you will have some data on which to base your decision on the best tariff.
    Originally posted by Cardew

    I can answer that one for you.

    ALL Suppliers who have signed up to the Balancing & Settlement Code (BSC), a form of trading licence must have the capability to register any type of metering in Englang, Scotland & wales. So, any Supplier selling elec in those regions is covered under the BSC.

    Suppliers are regularily reviewed on their performance against the BSC. The industry has also tightened up on data over the past 3 years in terms of registering meters against properties.

    So, all Suppliers can register you on any meter. The problem lies within their own billing engines. They have to create a compatible tariff. In the case of E10 and Heatwise, they also have to be able to support dual MPAN based billing. Thats the problem.

    Some Suppliers have made their registration systems compliant, but they haven't created compatible tariffs.

    I can tell you Npower have this problem. Some others do to.

    So, the problem when you have dual MPAN metering is that you have to shop around for someone who can bill you before even thinking about comparing prices.

    The sae problem applies to customers with solar panelled feedback (import/export meters) since they are new and still being thrashed at out industry level. I don't expect the problem to get any better though since the industry auditor (Ofgem's equivalent for the BSC), Elexon don't even check the compatible tariff side.

    Nice one Ofgem!
    It's better to live 1 year as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm...but then, whoever heard of a wormskin rug!!!
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