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  • FIRST POST
    lennonc1
    NRAM Class Action on redress method.
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 13, 8:05 PM
    NRAM Class Action on redress method. 11th Mar 13 at 8:05 PM
    CCA affected loans -

    This thread has been created to discuss the possibility of class action against NRAM. For customers that are not happy with the proposed method of redress. We are at the point where nram have not upheld our complaints as they believe their method of remediation is appropriate. We have not been consulted with regards to our terms changing and as they know and have admitted non compliance with cca, we believe we have the right to choose.

    Please leave a comment if you would like to know more and to add yourself to this discussion.

    Thanks
    C
Page 1
  • Scottydog09
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 13, 9:54 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 13, 9:54 PM
    Hi,

    I am really keen to understand what happens with this. I have been following the other thread and I think it is disgusting that NRAM can just decide what to do with OUR MONEY. I am hearing conflicting information on our legal rights but I am going to seek advice to see where we stand.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 12th Mar 13, 6:38 PM
    • 22,940 Posts
    • 10,351 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 13, 6:38 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 13, 6:38 PM
    If you borrow money it is THEIR money until you pay it back.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
  • lennonc1
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 13, 6:45 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 13, 6:45 PM
    I have spoke with lawyers and they basically say we do have the right to ask for direct payment, office of fair trading can't do anything if it is an individual complaint, has to be consumer group complaint. Citizens advice say they can change the terms only with prior notice, now trading standards have said that this has been a government decree to say we get redress on loan. Now the government are not the law and only a judge can rule on this, details have been sent to watchdog, we have other posters in conversation with head of department at oft, and now have news that there could be a possible story with a few news papers.
    I have yet to give link of this thread to the others as it is only in initial research stages at the moment, so anything you can share please do so.
    Thanks
    C
  • lennonc1
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 13, 7:31 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 13, 7:31 PM
    If you borrow money it is THEIR money until you pay it back.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    Not if they have taken these payments illegally over the past 4 years or so, thats why they have admitted their mistake and paying out to redress customers. It may be a small mistake to make but is that not what they so gainfully employ a great legal team for, to make sure these mistakes dont happen. We want an option of how this is paid back that is all.
  • cot1198
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:33 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:33 AM
    I think it will be interesting to see what the FOS say about it.
    They may well side with NRAM, I don't know. But I think we need to go down that avenue anyway.
  • cot1198
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:35 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:35 AM
    If you borrow money it is THEIR money until you pay it back.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever

    We did pay it back. Only problem is they where not allowed by law to charge us the interest we paid.
  • cot1198
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:44 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:44 AM
    I have spoke with lawyers and they basically say we do have the right to ask for direct payment, office of fair trading can't do anything if it is an individual complaint, has to be consumer group complaint. Citizens advice say they can change the terms only with prior notice, now trading standards have said that this has been a government decree to say we get redress on loan. Now the government are not the law and only a judge can rule on this, details have been sent to watchdog, we have other posters in conversation with head of department at oft, and now have news that there could be a possible story with a few news papers.
    I have yet to give link of this thread to the others as it is only in initial research stages at the moment, so anything you can share please do so.
    Thanks
    C
    Originally posted by lennonc1
    I have also sent details to watchdog, still got to arrange a meeting with my MP. Could we complain as a group to OFT before we get a final decision from FOS?
  • lennonc1
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:47 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 13, 8:47 AM
    I have got a massive reading list now, evenfields from other thread has emailed me a lot of information, I now have some great contacts and hope to get a story together to go to press. I was told by citizens advice and trading standards this was a sector failing and this is why it is very hush hush so needs to go public, then would open the big can of worms. I will send over the info I have from evenfields.
  • lennonc1
    I have also sent details to watchdog, still got to arrange a meeting with my MP. Could we complain as a group to OFT before we get a final decision from FOS?
    Originally posted by cot1198
    Yes I agree, is there something we can set up a bit more private than this to do things like that, perhaps Facebook or something then at least we can pm people to join.
  • lennonc1
    Ok I now have an appointment with my mp on 15th as am sure he is labour he will take great pleasure in brining this up in parliament!! Need to get info together now. If you have anything you want included please pm me as I am pretty rubbish at this kind of thing!
  • cot1198
    Ok I now have an appointment with my mp on 15th as am sure he is labour he will take great pleasure in brining this up in parliament!! Need to get info together now. If you have anything you want included please pm me as I am pretty rubbish at this kind of thing!
    Originally posted by lennonc1
    One thing I thought of was what percentage of the £270m will be paid out in the form of direct payment to ex NRAM customers. As NRAM need to pay customers who have re payed their loans directly what would that take off the £270m. What I'm trying to say is £270m is not the real figure due back to existing customers.
  • lennonc1
    Well from what I've heard from customers there is no money being redressed just say 5 years reduced of term which will be approx same amount of interest taken during non compliance. So that money is lost in 20 years not now! I for one won't be keeping it that long, so if I go to sell the amount of loan is same just shorter term, so I still owe the same, is that right!! If so not on at all! Even more reason to get them now!
    • krisdorey
    • By krisdorey 13th Mar 13, 10:31 AM
    • 3,147 Posts
    • 2,685 Thanks
    krisdorey
    If they have reduced the term then you owe less, the only difference is that as opposed to reducing the repayment inflation has a small bearing.
  • cot1198
    I don't think so. Say the amount you needed to pay off your loan today would be 10,000. Then NRAM apply the redress of say 3,000 tomorrow. The amount you would need to pay off your loan would then be £7,000. The redress amount is lost to the taxpayer whenever the loan is repaid if that be next week or in 20 years. The way NRAM are wanting to do this saves you X amount of years of payments at the end of the loan period IF the loan runs for the full term. So what they are saying is for those X amount of years you are not paying your monthly amount you are saving, you just need to wait 15 years to do so.
    • krisdorey
    • By krisdorey 13th Mar 13, 10:36 AM
    • 3,147 Posts
    • 2,685 Thanks
    krisdorey
    You can also make a provision or write off the redress amounts up front.

    I'll have to check my IFRS/GAAP book to see what is considered norms.
  • lennonc1
    You can also make a provision or write off the redress amounts up front.

    I'll have to check my IFRS/GAAP book to see what is considered norms.
    Originally posted by krisdorey
    Can you explain please, think I'm still half asleep, not well baby = no sleep!!!
    • drussmonkey
    • By drussmonkey 13th Mar 13, 11:20 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    drussmonkey
    In an attempt to demonstrate your basic and continued folly in wanting this money back as cash now now now, I have put together a very simple Spreadsheet to demonstrate how the application of redress affects your account in the long term.

    I have used generic figures, conflated the unsecured loan with the main mortgage (which in most cases are on identical terms, and so can be considered 'as one'), and assumed the interest rate won't ever change throughout life of the account. It's good enough for an illustration.

    The 'Additional Balance Paid' in column F4 represents the application of the redress to your balance today. Remove it or set it to 0 to see how the figures change over time.

    Basically you can see that £2500 taken off your account today means your mortgage would finish just over a year early. In other words you save £4776 in interest and £7274 OVERALL.

    This saving is admittedly lessened with a smaller loan of £10-15k (but by turns, the term is also much more reduced) but the principle is identical. Redress applied by shorterning the term is the best thing for you. This spreadsheet also demonstrates the benefits of overpaying even small amounts. Over time it'll dramatically reduce your term and save you lots of money. Think about it!
  • lennonc1
    I know all this, but I do not plan to keep my house much longer. I will sell ASAP. I have a tiny one bedroom house and now with a new baby can't possibly live here anymore.
    I don't want the money, now now now! That won't happen, but I DO want to know my rights and a choice in the matter.
    I understand it makes financial sense to accept redress on loan, and if my circumstances were different I would. It comes down to what the individuals needs are, not a bank to decide.
  • cot1198
    In an attempt to demonstrate your basic and continued folly in wanting this money back as cash now now now, I have put together a very simple Spreadsheet to demonstrate how the application of redress affects your account in the long term.

    I have used generic figures, conflated the unsecured loan with the main mortgage (which in most cases are on identical terms, and so can be considered 'as one'), and assumed the interest rate won't ever change throughout life of the account. It's good enough for an illustration.

    The 'Additional Balance Paid' in column F4 represents the application of the redress to your balance today. Remove it or set it to 0 to see how the figures change over time.

    Basically you can see that £2500 taken off your account today means your mortgage would finish just over a year early. In other words you save £4776 in interest and £7274 OVERALL.

    This saving is admittedly lessened with a smaller loan of £10-15k (but by turns, the term is also much more reduced) but the principle is identical. Redress applied by shorterning the term is the best thing for you. This spreadsheet also demonstrates the benefits of overpaying even small amounts. Over time it'll dramatically reduce your term and save you lots of money. Think about it!
    Originally posted by drussmonkey
    I can not speak for others but I for one am fully aware of the amount of money I could save over the term of the loan by shortening that term. The question is, is this method right for me at this moment in time not in 15 years, the answer is no BTW.

    Anyway this thread was not created to have an argument about if we should be asking questions, or having a debate on the financial impact on ourselves or the country. It was created so all those who would like a choice in the matter could have a thread where they could discuss this issue.
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