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  • FIRST POST
    • Aaron Aadvark
    • By Aaron Aadvark 9th Mar 13, 5:49 PM
    • 228Posts
    • 403Thanks
    Aaron Aadvark
    POPLA Decisions
    • #1
    • 9th Mar 13, 5:49 PM
    POPLA Decisions 9th Mar 13 at 5:49 PM
    MSE Note:

    Hi! Please don't post any private details (yours or other peoples) on the forum for privacy reasons. Thanks!

    MSE Official Insert:

    Read our MoneySaving UK Travel & Transport guides to save more including Fight Private Parking Tickets and Parking Ticket Appeals.

    Back to Aaron Aadvark's original post....

    ----------------------------


    This thread is intended to be a compilation of all published POPLA decisions.

    Please add any decisions you are aware of.

    Please do not post requests for advice on this thread.

    Please start a new thread if you are looking advice.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 28-10-2016 at 9:29 AM.
Page 120
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 16,405 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    POPLA assessment and decision: 04/10/16
    Verification Code:
    6062386379
    Decision: uncontested

    Original thread:
    (Sorry cant post link)
    Thread number 5524238
    . moneysavingexpert . com / showthread . php ? t= 5524238
    Next step is to complain to DVLA and BPA.

    thanks for your help MSE forum!
    .


    Originally posted by RedVanDriver
    Well done. Let us know how your complaints go. Here's your original thread:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524238
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • chrisotherwise
    • By chrisotherwise 6th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    chrisotherwise
    POPLA Success

    Location: Abersoch Beach Car park
    Operator: Parking Eye
    Reasons: Unclear signage, no landowner authority, doesn't comply with protection of freedoms
    Appeal allowed - Operator failed to submit any evidence in their favour.

    Original thread (includes full appeal and decision text): http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71412971

    Huge thanks to all on here. I'm delighted!
    • Boggy0220
    • By Boggy0220 6th Oct 16, 8:03 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Boggy0220
    POPLA Success - NCP @ North Greenwich London Underground Station car park
    The PCN I was fighting on behalf of a work colleague has been assessed at POPLA and found in our favour.

    A finding was made on the fact that NCP failed to identify the driver. All other points of challenge were ignored and not even mentioned in the adjudication summary but a win is a win and we are happy with that.
    NCP @ North Greenwich London Underground Station 0 - My colleague 1

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Oct 16, 8:18 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 16,405 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The PCN I was fighting on behalf of a work colleague has been assessed at POPLA and found in our favour.

    A finding was made on the fact that NCP failed to identify the driver. All other points of challenge were ignored and not even mentioned in the adjudication summary but a win is a win and we are happy with that.
    NCP @ North Greenwich London Underground Station 0 - My colleague 1

    Originally posted by Boggy0220
    Original thread:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5518913
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Aaron Aadvark
    • By Aaron Aadvark 7th Oct 16, 9:44 PM
    • 228 Posts
    • 403 Thanks
    Aaron Aadvark
    Location: McDonalds Gatwick Airport
    Allegation: Overstayed
    Decision: Allowed
    Reason: No evidence supplied

    Appellant Evidence:
    Driver not identified - PoFA not applicable,
    Signage inadequate.

    The keeper received several debt collection letters whilst the PoPLA appeal was in progress. Upon complaint the keeper was told that as this was a genuine mistake the BPA Ltd consider that no action against the operator was appropriate. Of course if the motorist makes a genuine mistake such as as entering a 0 instead of an O then the BPA Ltd consider that a £100 charge is justified on the basis of strict liability.
    Je suis Charlie
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Oct 16, 10:35 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 16,405 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Location: McDonalds Gatwick Airport
    Allegation: Overstayed
    Decision: Allowed
    Reason: No evidence supplied

    Appellant Evidence:
    Driver not identified - PoFA not applicable,
    Signage inadequate.

    The keeper received several debt collection letters whilst the PoPLA appeal was in progress. Upon complaint the keeper was told that as this was a genuine mistake the BPA Ltd consider that no action against the operator was appropriate. Of course if the motorist makes a genuine mistake such as as entering a 0 instead of an O then the BPA Ltd consider that a £100 charge is justified on the basis of strict liability.
    Originally posted by Aaron Aadvark
    Absolutely in a nutshell AA.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Boggy0220
    • By Boggy0220 7th Oct 16, 11:27 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Boggy0220
    Same car park earlier is year.

    How strange! I received a number of letters from the debts collectors whilst an appeal was in progress. Surely MET Parking Services didn't make a mistake with that one too? ��
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Oct 16, 11:33 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 16,405 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Same car park earlier is year.

    How strange! I received a number of letters from the debts collectors whilst an appeal was in progress. Surely MET Parking Services didn't make a mistake with that one too? ��
    Originally posted by Boggy0220
    It would undoubtedly have been a genuine one!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • mixu
    • By mixu 10th Oct 16, 12:12 PM
    • 166 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    mixu
    Both appeals successful!

    "Cancelled as a gesture of goodwill."

    Final wording here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71301228&postcount=11

    Many thanks to you all — especially SchoolRunMum (Coupon-mad).

    :cheers:
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Oct 16, 12:41 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 16,405 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Both appeals successful!

    "Cancelled as a gesture of goodwill."

    Final wording here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71301228&postcount=11

    Many thanks to you all — especially SchoolRunMum (Coupon-mad).

    :cheers:
    Originally posted by mixu
    Cancelled more likely because they have no answer to the detail of the appeal. In fact I'd guess they don't even understand half of it to even attempt an intellectual response.

    'Gesture of goodwill' my Jim Royle!

    Well done mixu!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Oct 16, 12:50 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    Both appeals successful!

    "Cancelled as a gesture of goodwill."


    Why not send them an invoice "as a gesture of ill-will"
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 10th Oct 16, 3:16 PM
    • 8,861 Posts
    • 13,442 Thanks
    trisontana
    Time to roll out this definition of "gesture of goodwll". Although this refers to the retail sector, a lot of it is relevent to the above case:-

    This is a nasty put-down that companies use when they know that they have been caught out and they have no choice but to try and buy you off with some token payment in order to avoid further trouble.
    'Gesture of goodwill' means that you have won but the company wants to try and retain control and make you feel grateful.
    The fact is that 99 times out of 100, the company is doing no more than they should have done under the contract anyway.
    'Gesture of goodwill' is symptomatic of everything that is wrong with Customer Service today.

    The reality is that these companies need your goodwill: you don't need theirs.
    As long as companies continue to try to compensate their customers as a 'gesture of goodwill', customer service will never improve. Companies will always act defensively against their customers.

    It is the customers who should be accepting offers of compensation as a gesture of goodwill towards the company - and the company should be grateful to earn and to retain the goodwill of their customers.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 10th Oct 16, 11:02 PM
    • 8,861 Posts
    • 13,442 Thanks
    trisontana
    An interesting POPLA success as flagged up on PPP:-

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109084&hl=

    The assessor really nails it regarding ANPR and grace periods:-

    The appellant was unaware that they were required to pay from the point of entry to the car park and not from the time they purchased their ticket. The operator is using Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology to record and calculate the duration of stay for vehicles so has recorded the appellant’s vehicle entering at 11:44, and with receiving payment for five hours, this would authorise the vehicle to be parked until 16:44. As a result it has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant has overstayed this by 10 minutes.

    Section 21.1 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice states “You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.”

    The signage displayed within the car park does display a logo associated with ANPR, however the signage does not inform motorists that the data captured is used to calculate their stay or any statement that makes this implicit to a driver. As the operator has not met the BPA requirements with regards to ANPR signage, I am satisfied that the appellant has not been made aware of this and could reasonably assume the time stated on their ticket as the time they are authorised to remain parked until.

    Due to this, for the purposes of this appeal I am going to use the time of the ticket having been purchased as the time from when the appellant was authorised to remain in the car park. The evidence shows that the appellant’s ticket would have an expiry time of 16:49, and the appellant exited the car park at 16:55, meaning the appellant has overstayed this period by six minutes.

    The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice states: “13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.” As the appellant, based on the time the payment was made, has not exceeded the minimum grace period of 10 minutes, I am unable to conclude that this PCN has been issued correctly.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 11th Oct 16, 11:18 AM
    • 729 Posts
    • 541 Thanks
    Computersaysno
    The scamsters were really taking the p155 here...bang on ten mins overdue and they issued an invoice.
    Some people would think 'Ok from now why doesn't the parkingco use 14 mins as a grace period, that would be fair'....but let's face it the parking co won't mind losing this one....remember for every success at POPLA there are thousands who pay up with barely a whimper. Changing it to 14 would lose them punters who would simply pay up...they'll happily swop that for the odd loss...


    IIRC if a council was found to be doing something inherently unfair at PATAS [appeals service for council tickets], they would be instructed by the adjudicator to put it right [eg incorrect signage would have to be amended].


    Sadly POPLA appears not to be able to make such orders/requests.


    The gravy train just keeps rolling along....
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • Lizlou72
    • By Lizlou72 18th Oct 16, 5:35 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Lizlou72
    POPLA SUCCESS

    Newbie here. Read pages and pages on this forum and submitted appeal to CE Ltd. That was rejected. Appealed with popla using driver unidentified and ticket sent after 15 days, together with all the other complaints e.g, reliability of the anpr system, no landowner authority, inadequate signage etc (though I didn't manage to get half the info I needed on popla's 2000 word count - I didn't realise everyone else sent it via PDF evidence, until after I'd submitted it and had a mini panick attack!!).

    Anyway, great news today, it was uncontested by CE, so very happy bunny here... thank you to everyone who posts on here, you've been a great help )))
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Oct 16, 5:42 PM
    • 40,492 Posts
    • 52,389 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    POPLA SUCCESS

    Newbie here. Read pages and pages on this forum and submitted appeal to CE Ltd. That was rejected. Appealed with popla using driver unidentified and ticket sent after 15 days, together with all the other complaints e.g, reliability of the anpr system, no landowner authority, inadequate signage etc (though I didn't manage to get half the info I needed on popla's 2000 word count - I didn't realise everyone else sent it via PDF evidence, until after I'd submitted it and had a mini panick attack!!).

    Anyway, great news today, it was uncontested by CE, so very happy bunny here... thank you to everyone who posts on here, you've been a great help )))
    Originally posted by Lizlou72
    Well done!

    But a lesson for other newbies - what makes you all think there is any problem and a 2000 character restriction when you see our 3000-word efforts?!

    We submit them as an attachment under 'OTHER' on POPLA's website every time.

    When lost, search the forum. I said to a poster asking the same question a couple of days ago, anything you ask here has already been asked dozens of times, so in this case just putting '2000' in the search box for this board only (not the whole of MSE), gets the answer in seconds.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-10-2016 at 5:47 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 18th Oct 16, 5:58 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
    • 2,728 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    well done .....

    would you mind helping the cause by joining this campaign

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754&page=10

    thanks

    Ralph
    • ianr1950
    • By ianr1950 18th Oct 16, 8:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ianr1950
    new ticket
    Just got a ticket today parking in a public car park at a university. Signs said not for staff and students, I am neither. Ticket was put on my car by a covert operative and the uni security office said that as I went out of the car park onto the campus I was not visiting the area the car park was for. I was going to drop something of at a friend and then we went for a sandwich and coffee at the place the car park is supposedly for. I have a receipt for the food we bought 38 mins after the ticket was issued. The ticker is issued by First Parking LLP. I am going to appeal as just because I went onto the campus first I was visiting the relevant area. Any thoughts folks?
    • Lizlou72
    • By Lizlou72 18th Oct 16, 8:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Lizlou72
    Coupon Mad - I'm usually pretty good at navigating around websites, but I struggled on the forum.... not sure if it was because I wasn't a member until today. I tried on the iPad and on my android phone but still struggled to find relevant threads (including searching key words).

    Ralph y - I've had a quick look - do I just send a letter to Teresa May on the template?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 18th Oct 16, 8:21 PM
    • 9,482 Posts
    • 8,250 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Just got a ticket today parking in a public car park at a university. Signs said not for staff and students, I am neither. Ticket was put on my car by a covert operative and the uni security office said that as I went out of the car park onto the campus I was not visiting the area the car park was for. I was going to drop something of at a friend and then we went for a sandwich and coffee at the place the car park is supposedly for. I have a receipt for the food we bought 38 mins after the ticket was issued. The ticker is issued by First Parking LLP. I am going to appeal as just because I went onto the campus first I was visiting the relevant area. Any thoughts folks?
    Originally posted by ianr1950
    If you want help, may I suggest that you start a new thread and people will help. This thread is for POPLA results, not new help threads.

    Please do open your own thread and I promise you will get real help tailored to your own problem.
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