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    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 25th Aug 17, 6:19 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Many thanks.
    I've just read the CAA pages and they say too I need to ask for a "final response " as this should outline the relevant ADR.
    That Lufthansa didn't include this in the reply suggests that as Vaubansays, they at the messing me around stage still.
    Will press the point.
    I'll feedback.

    Oddly the CAA says it can help but when you read further says it will only help if there isn't an ADR
    • britishboy
    • By britishboy 25th Aug 17, 7:04 PM
    • 2,346 Posts
    • 261 Thanks
    britishboy
    I used Resolver to claim from Thomas Cook, 5 1/2 hour delay to Corfu in July, very impressed and was awarded £730 compensation for 2 x passengers in total. Never been delayed before, so wasnt expecting much, but overall massively impressed!
    Thank you MSE for suggesting Resolver
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 28th Aug 17, 6:20 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Sorted
    With regard with the compensation, from Lufthansa’s point of view, we consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability. However, as a gesture of goodwill and on an exceptional basis, we will be pleased to pay you in full amounting EUR 400 equivalent to GBP 357 per passenger which will be credited into the bank account.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 28th Aug 17, 7:38 PM
    • 1,066 Posts
    • 531 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Sorted
    With regard with the compensation, from Lufthansa’s point of view, we consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability. However, as a gesture of goodwill and on an exceptional basis, we will be pleased to pay you in full amounting EUR 400 equivalent to GBP 357 per passenger which will be credited into the bank account.
    Originally posted by wigwam12
    Well done for persevering and getting the correct result

    A very unusual reply from Lufti, I've never known an airline to just voluntarily give up €400 if they were not liable!
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 28th Aug 17, 8:44 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    I suspect it was face-saving as the email I sent on Saturday ended:
    Please provide me with Lufthansa’s “Final Response” which in such a straightforward matter I would expect to confirm the method you propose to provide the total compensation sought of €2000 (€400 each in respect of the 5 family members travelling in my party).

    Alternatively, in respect of your misunderstanding of the regulations, I expect you to confirm that the matter is in deadlock and hence details of Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanism and the address for correspondence should I need to escalate to court proceedings.

    'We'd have beaten you, but as we're nice we will just pay up anyway'
    They responded 12 hours later at 2am (same person) but I didn't spit the email until today
    • JPears
    • By JPears 18th Sep 17, 11:32 PM
    • 3,165 Posts
    • 885 Thanks
    JPears
    bumped to tidy board
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bob_a_builder
    • By bob_a_builder 21st Sep 17, 4:33 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 708 Thanks
    bob_a_builder
    Was caught up in the delays in Oslo with SAS on the 14th Sept ..

    Where the airline preemptively canceled flights ...
    "In order to avoid that SAS customers become stranded during an eventual strike, SAS takes precautions and cancels about 100 flights tomorrow until 2 pm, Thursday September 14th."

    so no actual industrial action yet ?


    But from [[ THIS ]] link we can see that they did offer meals and overnight accommodation etc indicating that they accept the flight delay is their issue ?
    i.e.
    "As a SAS customer, we can offer you the following, according to the applicable regulations
    Overnight accommodation ....
    etc etc

    But later go on to say
    "Will SAS pay me EU261-2004 monetary compensation if I am delayed?
    EU 261/2004 compensation for cancelled/delayed flights will not be paid since this is considered an extraordinary circumstance."


    I have lodged a claim, prior to finding the linked article, but not heard anything yet
    The EUclaim site indicates I do have a case
    (but expect that is just based on delay times rather than any specifics of the case)

    Since they cancelled the flights before any strike, is that still an "industrial action" case ?
    Last edited by bob_a_builder; 22-09-2017 at 9:24 AM.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 21st Sep 17, 4:45 PM
    • 3,165 Posts
    • 885 Thanks
    JPears
    Who was on strike? SAS staff or airport staff?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bob_a_builder
    • By bob_a_builder 21st Sep 17, 4:48 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 708 Thanks
    bob_a_builder
    Technically no-one at the time ...

    "Although SAS and its Norwegian pilot union are engaging in last minute negations, the airline has proactively canceled more than 100 flights scheduled for Thursday morning/early afternoon and released rebooking guidelines."
    • JPears
    • By JPears 21st Sep 17, 4:54 PM
    • 3,165 Posts
    • 885 Thanks
    JPears
    Checked, looks like it was pilots. If so, you are due compensation. Strike and their decision to cancel, with less than 2 weeks notice, is NOT and EC.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bob_a_builder
    • By bob_a_builder 21st Sep 17, 5:00 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 708 Thanks
    bob_a_builder
    OK - Thanks, well, I'll sit back an await their response, but given their(SAS) claim that it is an EC in the linked article I imagine they are going to reject.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 21st Sep 17, 8:15 PM
    • 3,165 Posts
    • 885 Thanks
    JPears
    They can claim and reject all they like.
    a) They choes to cancel your flight. That's an operational decision, not an EC.
    b) Pilots are their employees, so thats not an EC.
    Start reading up on Vauban's most informative guide. If SAS don't have an address in the UK, then start reaqding Dr Watson's excellent guide on the Euro Small claims process - ESCP
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bob_a_builder
    • By bob_a_builder 22nd Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 708 Thanks
    bob_a_builder
    As expected they rejected main claim but offer to pay for food etc...

    "I understand your request for compensation, however, an accordance with EU261/2004 compensation is not payable. Flight irregularities caused as a result of strike action are considered extraordinary circumstances."

    There was no strike action at the point of cancellation

    They also made no mention of a ADR route, although reading reading the MSE site on Ombudsuman HERE implies they have one and should have informed me of it

    So I think my 1st push back should be to question their case for EC on points you made and also ask about their ADR procedure ?

    After that, any preference for MCOL or ESCP route ?
    or (from MSE site)
    ARN (or National Board for Consumer Disputes) – Scandinavian Airline SAS. You can submit your complaint here. There's no fee if your claim's unsuccessful. This scheme's decisions are not legally binding on the airline, but it says 80% of businesses follow its rulings
    [HERE]



    EDIT : It seems that ARN only covers for goods bought online !

    EDIT2 : Seems it was a bad /wrong link on MSE pages : now found right ARN details on SAS site :

    "If for any reason you are unhappy with our final response to your complaint, you can refer your complaint to any of the approved Alternative Dispute Resolution providers established within the Member States of the European Union. An Online Dispute Resolution platform has been set up by the European Commission: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/ which provides easy access to alternative dispute resolution (ADR).

    Although SAS is not signed up to any ADR body, SAS adheres by the decisions of the ADR bodies approved by the Member States.

    You can also refer your complaint to Allmänna Reklamationsnämnden (“ARN”), Box 174, SE-101 23 Stockholm, Sweden who are approved by an EU Competent Authority to provide an independent review of complaints and dispute resolution services. You will need to refer your complaint within 12 months after our final response.
    ARN can be contacted on:
    Allmänna Reklamationsnämnden
    Box 174, SE-101 23 Stockholm, Sweden
    Opening hours: 9-12, 13-15
    www.arn.se
    Last edited by bob_a_builder; 22-09-2017 at 4:07 PM.
    • Rowan2510
    • By Rowan2510 6th Oct 17, 8:38 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Rowan2510
    Finnair Flight Delay Compensation
    I booked a return ticket from Manchester to Bangkok via Helsinki with Finnair in January.
    The return flight was delayed in Bangkok and returned to Helsinki 1 hour 28 minutes late which meant I missed my connecting flight to Manchester which would have arrived at 17.00pm.
    I got diverted from Helsinki with a different airline Lufthansa to Frankfurt and then a flight from Frankfurt to Manchester which meant I arrived at my final destination at 22.25pm, 5 1/2 hours later than originally scheduled.
    Finnair has admitted that the fuel tank 1 main pump showed an indication fault on departure from Helsinki and that the defected part was replaced, however upon my complaint about the delay they have said that no standard compensation will be paid.
    Is this right as this does not seem to be extraordinary circumstances?
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 6th Oct 17, 11:53 AM
    • 1,066 Posts
    • 531 Thanks
    Tyzap
    I booked a return ticket from Manchester to Bangkok via Helsinki with Finnair in January.
    The return flight was delayed in Bangkok and returned to Helsinki 1 hour 28 minutes late which meant I missed my connecting flight to Manchester which would have arrived at 17.00pm.
    I got diverted from Helsinki with a different airline Lufthansa to Frankfurt and then a flight from Frankfurt to Manchester which meant I arrived at my final destination at 22.25pm, 5 1/2 hours later than originally scheduled.
    Finnair has admitted that the fuel tank 1 main pump showed an indication fault on departure from Helsinki and that the defected part was replaced, however upon my complaint about the delay they have said that no standard compensation will be paid.
    Is this right as this does not seem to be extraordinary circumstances?
    Originally posted by Rowan2510
    Hi Rowan2510,

    Thanks for reposting.

    I don't believe this is right, it was caused by an ordinary technical fault which is not an EC. According to the EC261/2004 regulations you are due compensation.

    Did Finnair give you a reason for declining your claim or just refused to pay it?

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • Rowan2510
    • By Rowan2510 6th Oct 17, 3:18 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Rowan2510
    Their response is:

    "Finnair flight AY0090 on the 10th of January 2017 delayed on arrival to Helsinki for 1 hour and 28 minutes. The fuel tank 1 main pump showed an indication fault on departure from Helsinki. The defected part was replaced. The aircraft manufacturer is now investigating the part.

    In this case no standard compensation will be paid."
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 6th Oct 17, 3:50 PM
    • 746 Posts
    • 352 Thanks
    legal magpie
    This is the connecting flight issue which, I believe is going through the courts. Current thinking is that if you book both flights on one ticket with the same airline it is the total delay that counts.
    There is a link here
    https://www.flightright.co.uk/your-rights/connecting-flights
    Last edited by legal magpie; 06-10-2017 at 3:53 PM.
    • Rowan2510
    • By Rowan2510 6th Oct 17, 4:21 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Rowan2510
    Finnair Flight Delay Compensation
    Thanks for the information.

    Yes the flights were all booked on one ticket and this is what i believe that it is the total delay once you reach your final destination which was 5 1/2 hours in total.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 6th Oct 17, 5:07 PM
    • 1,066 Posts
    • 531 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Their response is:

    "Finnair flight AY0090 on the 10th of January 2017 delayed on arrival to Helsinki for 1 hour and 28 minutes. The fuel tank 1 main pump showed an indication fault on departure from Helsinki. The defected part was replaced. The aircraft manufacturer is now investigating the part.

    In this case no standard compensation will be paid."
    Originally posted by Rowan2510
    They can dress it up any way they like, but it's still not an EC. Parts wearing out or breaking before expected is an inherent part of running an airline. It happens regularly.

    For it to be an EC the maker of the part must establish that a fault or weakness was mistakenly built into those parts, resulting in an urgent part recall. This would normally require the grounding of all aircraft with those parts already fitted or an urgent replacement program. This would be very unusual and only happens occasionally. For example, the batteries on the Boeing 787.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • Karenmaybin
    • By Karenmaybin 11th Oct 17, 2:42 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Karenmaybin
    SATA Azores Airlines
    I've submitted a claim using the template and have had an automated response to the effect it may take some time to review claim but no timeframe is given.
    In the template letter it said 14 days so I've emailed again now with their reference number asking for a time frame. What is a reasonable period for them to review my claim?
    If they reject it can I take the matter to the CAA.
    We were delayed 15 hours Lisbon to Toronto.
    Thanks.
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