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  • FIRST POST
    thistledome
    Storage Heater Getting Too Hot ?...Hlp pls
    • #1
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:32 PM
    Storage Heater Getting Too Hot ?...Hlp pls 8th Feb 13 at 4:32 PM
    Hello

    Elderly relative has a Creda Storage heater (model no. 79164C) in the lounge which is usually v. hot to the touch, but not unbearably so. The other day it was incredibly hot, so hot I couldn't touch it and the uPVC window ledge above it is getting very brown. I opened my big gob and said it seemed too hot and the thermostat must be broken and elderly rellie has now turned it off completely and the room is only being heated with a portable halogen fire, which isn't enough.

    I've had a look online but I could only find people saying their heater wasn't working. Apparently it should stop working if it gets too hot.

    I've tried to get them to call in an electrician but they won't (long story).

    I've looked online for spares for this model, but there doesn't seem to be a thermostat available, just a thermal fuse link (which seems to be the thing that should cut out if too hot) or a combined control assembly (whatever that is!).

    Also, is replacing parts on these a DIY job? My husband is a competant DIY'er but obviously not a trained sparks.

    I'm hoping richie from the boro sees this or someone else who know their stuff!

    TIA
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
Page 1
  • rogerblack
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:48 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:48 PM
    Hello

    Elderly relative has a Creda Storage heater (model no. 79164C) in the lounge which is usually v. hot to the touch, but not unbearably so. The other day it was incredibly hot, so hot I couldn't touch it and the uPVC window ledge above it is getting very brown.
    Originally posted by thistledome
    It sounds like the fusible link has been replaced by something unsuitable, and the thermostat has later failed.
    Both need replaced.
    It is a serious fire risk to operate it as it is.
  • alanq
    • #3
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:52 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:52 PM
    How hot is too hot I wonder. My storage heaters at middle setting with the flaps shut get hot but bearable to touch. During extremely cold weather a couple of years ago I had the control knobs turned full on and they did get unbearably hot to touch.

    Is turning the control knob down having no effect on the temperature reached by the heater?

    I recall when first getting my storage heaters it was recommended that if children or infirm adults are around a guard should be fitted.
  • penrhyn
    • #4
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:54 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Feb 13, 4:54 PM
    Spares should be available e.g here:-

    http://www.storageheater.co.uk/Models/Creda/79144C.htm

    I concur with the safety advice given above.

    Have you tried turning the input control down to see if its working?
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
  • molerat
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 13, 5:01 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Feb 13, 5:01 PM
    That looks like the part. I have no experience of creda but on the dimplex the contacts of the input stat can spark weld closed causing overheat. The contacts can be flicked apart and the weld spots filed with a contact file or emery board and give many more years life. Is the overheat resettable, they do get v hot before it pops.
    Last edited by molerat; 08-02-2013 at 5:04 PM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
  • thistledome
    • #6
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:05 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:05 PM

    Is turning the control knob down having no effect on the temperature reached by the heater?
    Originally posted by alanq
    The controls were turned down to 0, but they'd only been turned down an hour or so before I got there, so a bit hard to tell.

    Spares should be available e.g here:-

    http://www.storageheater.co.uk/Models/Creda/79144C.htm
    Originally posted by penrhyn
    Already looked and have asked question about spares in my O.P.

    Is the overheat resettable, they do get v hot before it pops.
    Originally posted by molerat
    I don't think it's resettable.

    Thanks for replies.
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • penrhyn
    • #7
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:28 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:28 PM
    You said you could not find the thermostat, it costs 53 from the supplier I identified. Its called the combined control.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
  • Ada3050
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:30 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:30 PM
    It sounds like the fusible link has been replaced by something unsuitable, and the thermostat has later failed.
    Both need replaced.
    It is a serious fire risk to operate it as it is.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    Good advice given here.
    Know the difference between what you WANT and what you NEED.
  • thistledome
    • #9
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:33 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Feb 13, 6:33 PM
    You said you could not find the thermostat, it costs 53 from the supplier I identified. Its called the combined control.
    Originally posted by penrhyn
    Thanks . That answers my original question:


    I've looked online for spares for this model, but there doesn't seem to be a thermostat available, just a thermal fuse link (which seems to be the thing that should cut out if too hot) or a combined control assembly (whatever that is!).
    Originally posted by thistledome
    Is changing one of these a DIY job or not? (competant DIY'er not a random div).
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • penrhyn
    Its called a combined control because it consists of both the input thermostat and the output flap control bimetal device.
    It should be a job that could be tackled by a competent DIYer, although I'd probably want to do a PAT test after any work.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    - weather dependant, it should be too hot to touch
    - weather dependant if you can touch it without it burning you, its not hot enough
    - red or yellow penrhyn's fusible link is the correct one
    - penrhyn's combined control statement is correct - input stat & output flap control
    - used to be the case but no longer recommended under a window, moving it is a DIY doddle
    - if you decide to move it from the window and its power supply postpone to the warmer weather.

    Now that fusible link should have blown if its as you describe too hot. Yes its a DIY job and a doddle providing that's all it is - the caveat is because you won't have access to a megga you won't be able to offline test the elements. However the elements are clearly not the issue. If I was doing it I've got the kit and the knowledge, if someone else without either was doing it I'd say bite the bullet pay for and get the combined plus a thermal fuse that way its a 100% replacement of everything [other than elements] that can ever go wrong in a night storage heaters 100 year lifespan.

    Before you spend money on a sparky, go round [E7 not E10] at 2200-2300 and test at that time of the night, it could still be soddin' hot but not at that point able to burn you. Or turn the input down 50% and wait a day or even two days - does it cool now ?

    If it doesn't cool down the the input stat is the best bet, the fuselink is just there to protect the dwelling if the stat goes open. If that's the case the fuselink may also have welded [heard about them doing this - never seen one myself] easy way to find out is to buy a fuselink in advance, pull the old fuselink out, replace with the new, switch on and re-test. However if it is overheating its liable to be the input stat
    _____________

    To do that test without a megga you'll need to divorce the switch from the 20a ring, supply a jury rig 13a with a 13a fuse, and pull out all but one of the 850W elements. That way it will run on daytime supply without pulling too much from the 13a supply ring.

    NOTE : Are you sure the cold AP hasn't just turned it full belt ?, in which case it will behave exactly as you say it is, and exactly as I say it should, especially as its under a window !
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • thistledome
    - weather dependant, it should be too hot to touch
    - weather dependant if you can touch it without it burning you, its not hot enough
    - red or yellow penrhyn's fusible link is the correct one
    - penrhyn's combined control statement is correct - input stat & output flap control
    - used to be the case but no longer recommended under a window, moving it is a DIY doddle
    - if you decide to move it from the window and its power supply postpone to the warmer weather.

    Now that fusible link should have blown if its as you describe too hot. Yes its a DIY job and a doddle providing that's all it is - the caveat is because you won't have access to a megga you won't be able to offline test the elements. However the elements are clearly not the issue. If I was doing it I've got the kit and the knowledge, if someone else without either was doing it I'd say bite the bullet pay for and get the combined plus a thermal fuse that way its a 100% replacement of everything [other than elements] that can ever go wrong in a night storage heaters 100 year lifespan.

    Before you spend money on a sparky, go round [E7 not E10] at 2200-2300 and test at that time of the night, it could still be soddin' hot but not at that point able to burn you. Or turn the input down 50% and wait a day or even two days - does it cool now ?

    If it doesn't cool down the the input stat is the best bet, the fuselink is just there to protect the dwelling if the stat goes open. If that's the case the fuselink may also have welded [heard about them doing this - never seen one myself] easy way to find out is to buy a fuselink in advance, pull the old fuselink out, replace with the new, switch on and re-test. However if it is overheating its liable to be the input stat
    _____________

    To do that test without a megga you'll need to divorce the switch from the 20a ring, supply a jury rig 13a with a 13a fuse, and pull out all but one of the 850W elements. That way it will run on daytime supply without pulling too much from the 13a supply ring.

    NOTE : Are you sure the cold AP hasn't just turned it full belt ?, in which case it will behave exactly as you say it is, and exactly as I say it should, especially as its under a window !
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro
    Thanks for your reply, ritchieftb. I'm going to copy and paste the first part of it for future reference. Very useful.

    The last 2 paragraphs have me scratching my head I'm afraid.

    What's a cold AP and full belt mean?
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    It means that an older person [an AP] is soddin freezing when others are warm, they will turn anything full on, including the gas hob with no pans on it, or the oven with nothing in it, if they are cold. They will then lie or tell you to mind your own business, one way or the other they will get heat if they are cold.

    AP=Aged Person
    Full belt=full on

    I was cautioning you, that these things really do get too hot to touch, people who've never had them, and are not used to them might misunderstand normal output for overheating.

    Example a standard 16 [3.4kW] bricker depending on how much input you give it, might be :

    - frighteningly hot early in the day because the damper was closed all night
    - coolish early in the day because the damper was open all night
    - frighteningly hot at teatime because the damper was closed all day and has just been opened
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • thistledome
    LOL. True.

    Thanks again. Very useful info indeed.

    Edit:
    I'm going round there tomorrow and will stay the night. Will update this thread with the outcome (whether heater is functioning correctly or not) in case anyone else has the same trouble with their cold AP.
    Last edited by thistledome; 09-02-2013 at 12:36 AM. Reason: update
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    LOL. True.

    Thanks again. Very useful info indeed.

    Edit:
    I'm going round there tomorrow and will stay the night. Will update this thread with the outcome (whether heater is functioning correctly or not) in case anyone else has the same trouble with their cold AP.
    Originally posted by thistledome
    - if you are there
    - it will have cooled
    - switch it on and close the damper [output] tight
    - set the input to a half
    - that room and its 'fabric' temp should have cooled
    - the heater on half a tank should be hot [ish] in the AM and cool [ish] by the PM
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • thistledome
    OK. Got there about 12 noon and switched heater on. I hadn't seen richie's last post, so turned on the input to 4 (out of 6) which is where the AP usually has it. Output was off.

    The top of the heater around the control knobs got very warm very quickly, within 5-10 minutes. We went out for an hour and the heater was very hot when we got back. I turned the input down one notch to 3 later in the evening (about half past 5). At this time I also turned the output knob to 3, as I thought perhaps it was getting so hot because we weren't letting the heat out IYSWIM. Later that night I turned the input down to 1.

    We went to bed about 1.30am and at this point I chickened out and turned the switch off at the wall because the thing was so roasting and I didn't want to leave it unattended overnight.

    There are brown marks on the front of the heater that never used to be there, almost like a grid shape (suppose that's the edges of the bricks?).

    Decided to go with the advice above and just replace the fuse link and the control assembly, but I'm not really happy about OH replacing these items but not being able to test the whole system. My concern is that there could be something else wrong that we don't know about, so have been nagging the AP to call out an electrician and AP has agreed (but we'll see if it gets done or not). Until then the heater is staying off.

    Not related, but on Sunday the little halogen heater in the bedroom started making a crackling noise so I turned that off as well. When OH turned up to take me home he had a look at it and said the top element wasn't working. He thinks the crackling noise was that element on it's way out and when he turned it back on again it went kaput. That sound feasible?
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • penrhyn
    Your post does not make sense, there should be no power to the storage heater during the day. Typically only for 7 hours between 1:00 am and 8:00 am. It is an economy 7 tarriff?
    If power is getting to it at other times there is something wrong with the timing mechanism.
    How are the heaters controlled? mechanical timer or radio teleswitch.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
  • thistledome
    I don't know how they are controlled, I doubt if it's something as sophisticated as wireless though.

    They can definitely draw power in the daytime. When you turn them on the wheel on the electricity meter whizzes round like nobody's business. AP does have an Economy 7 meter, but I think they also have a normal meter. They are on one of these old people schemes where they pay a set amount every month regardless of how much electric they use - perhaps this means the Economy 7 isn't used anymore?

    Sorry I really don't know how the system works. There is some kind of timer thing on the wall next to the meter cupboard, but I think it's only for hot water. IIRC it says Hot Water, Off and Boost (could be wrong though).
    Last edited by thistledome; 11-02-2013 at 3:58 PM.
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
  • frugalmacdugal
    Hi,

    as already said, if on E7 shouldn't be getting warm at noon, and certainly not very warm in 5/10 minutes.

    Something wrong with setup.

    Can you post any pictures?
    Y'all take care now.
  • penrhyn
    You need to investigate this. Storage heaters do what they do because they use low rate electricity during the night to store heat which is then used to warm the house during the day. If the thing has been On for 24 hours there is little wonder stuff is melting around it.
    They should NOT be drawing power during the day. If they are something is seriously wrong. Radio teleswitches are not new they have been around for many years.
    The thing you have seen is the Immersion Heater controller.
    I suggest you get an electrician in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_teleswitch
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
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