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    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 17th Oct 17, 10:12 AM
    • 1,180 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi Matt15,

    Probably a knock on delay from a previous flight but, if you post your flight details we can have a look.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 17th Oct 17, 11:47 AM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Check the weather reports for the date? There should be ones specific for Schipol online.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Matt15
    • By Matt15 17th Oct 17, 2:35 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt15
    Thanks for your replies Tyzap and JPears. We were due to fly on flight KL1997 from Amsterdam to Krakow on 11th June 2017. The email I received from them specifically mentions 'adverse weather conditions in Amsterdam'. However, the below site would seem to contradict that. Should I just reply to their email and include a link to this site?

    https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EHAM/2017/6/11/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Schiphol&req_state=NH&r eq_statename=Netherlands&reqdb.zip=00000&reqdb.mag ic=85&reqdb.wmo=06240
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 17th Oct 17, 4:46 PM
    • 1,180 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Thanks for your replies Tyzap and JPears. We were due to fly on flight KL1997 from Amsterdam to Krakow on 11th June 2017. The email I received from them specifically mentions 'adverse weather conditions in Amsterdam'. However, the below site would seem to contradict that. Should I just reply to their email and include a link to this site?

    https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EHAM/2017/6/11/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Schiphol&req_state=NH&r eq_statename=Netherlands&reqdb.zip=00000&reqdb.mag ic=85&reqdb.wmo=06240
    Originally posted by Matt15
    Hi Matt15,

    On Sunday 11th June there was no holding or diversions at AMS.
    I checked arrivals on playback at 10, 14.00 and 17.00 onwards and there were no problems at all. It will do no harm at all to include the link when you refute their claim about weather. What they are telling you is obviously not true.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 17th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Downlaod and read Vauban's guide. You should reply stating that your don't accept the contents of the letter, that compensation is due and you will commence legal recovery of compensation. Or check will an online NWNF solicitors, such as Botts to see if they think you have a valid claim and hand it over to them (for a fee)
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Matt15
    • By Matt15 17th Oct 17, 5:39 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt15
    Thanks again both of you. Will post an update on my progress.
    • Matt15
    • By Matt15 25th Oct 17, 7:08 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Matt15
    KLM are continuing to be dishonest about this so it seems I will have to proceed with legal action through a NWNF solicitor. My wife and I were travelling together, at the time I was a UK resident while she was a Polish resident, we are now both resident in Poland. The flight was Strasbourg>Amsterdam>Krakow so did not involve the UK at all. Can I still send the notice before action to the UK head office and contact a UK-based solicitor? I am a UK citizen while my wife is a Polish citizen in case that makes a difference. I would rather do it through the UK if possible as that would be easier for me. I should add that we are making two separate claims as we booked our flights separately so have different booking references although both were paid for on my bank card.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 25th Oct 17, 10:54 PM
    • 1,180 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Tyzap
    KLM are continuing to be dishonest about this so it seems I will have to proceed with legal action through a NWNF solicitor. My wife and I were travelling together, at the time I was a UK resident while she was a Polish resident, we are now both resident in Poland. The flight was Strasbourg>Amsterdam>Krakow so did not involve the UK at all. Can I still send the notice before action to the UK head office and contact a UK-based solicitor? I am a UK citizen while my wife is a Polish citizen in case that makes a difference. I would rather do it through the UK if possible as that would be easier for me. I should add that we are making two separate claims as we booked our flights separately so have different booking references although both were paid for on my bank card.
    Originally posted by Matt15
    Hi Matt15,

    Your question is more legal that flight delay, so I'm afraid I cannot give you a 100% accurate answer, but I suspect it will be okay.

    I suggest that you enter your flight details into the Bott delay calculator, found online, to confirm that they believe you have a valid case. If so, they will send you an email inviting you to use their services. You could then discuss it further with them. They are fully regulated solicitors, rather than a flight claims company, and have a very good reputation.

    If you do use a nwnf solicitor, you will not need to issue a NBA.

    Good luck
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • bettyboon
    • By bettyboon 12th Nov 17, 4:10 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    bettyboon
    I just wanted to say thank you once again JPears for your help. I took my complaint to the AviationADR using the information you supplied me with. It has taken months but my complaint has been upheld.
    Last edited by bettyboon; 12-11-2017 at 4:14 PM. Reason: added name of person who helped
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Nov 17, 6:50 PM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Well done, I hope you get your payment soon.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • aah
    • By aah 27th Nov 17, 11:49 PM
    • 509 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    aah
    Hello all
    I'm not sure where we are at in this process or what much of the jargon quoted means but for certain it seems like we are in for a battle.
    Took advice from the MSE pages and used Resolver to try to sort out compensation for delayed AF flight from LIS to CDG on 11 September causing us to miss our through ticketed connection to NCL. They put is up in a disgusting hotel where the food made me sick and booked us onto a flight the following day. Over 12 hours delay.
    Our entitlement to compensation seemed clear. AF ignored the Resolver case including its escalation
    So I started again and they seem to have me going round in circles. Hubby (other passenger on the ticket) and I are trying to claim separately although we were both on the same booking reference no.
    Air France responded saying they would give £75 off another flight. Rejected that then they came back and offered to reimburse hotel and food costs against receipts - but they provided the hotel and the disgusting food so obviously we have no receipts but in any case its compensation we are entitled to.
    This was rejected and they responded saying they were still not liable, citing Air Traffic Control. I didnt know what they meant by this, so I googled reasons why Air Traffic control could cause a delay and only strikes were mentioned. There was no strike on this day.
    I have now gone back to them saying that I require compnsation and will consider taking them to court.
    Feel a bit lost though. Any help?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 28th Nov 17, 1:26 AM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Have you downloaded and read through Vauban's super helpful guide. Most of your answers are in there.
    You will need to send an NBA if you are considering court action.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 28th Nov 17, 7:48 AM
    • 10,864 Posts
    • 7,093 Thanks
    Caz3121
    Our entitlement to compensation seemed clear.

    This was rejected and they responded saying they were still not liable, citing Air Traffic Control. I didnt know what they meant by this, so I googled reasons why Air Traffic control could cause a delay and only strikes were mentioned. There was no strike on this day.
    I have now gone back to them saying that I require compnsation and will consider taking them to court.
    Originally posted by aah
    ATC is not related only to strikes. It can be related to weather (winds can affect how many aircraft can land in an hour so slows everything down) Air traffic is not within the control of the airline - anyone that has joined the holding pattern at Heathrow before landing knows how frustrating this is
    What do you believe the reason for the delay was from LIS to CDG? this reason is key to whether compensation is due or not...eg putting your flight details through EUClaim shows -
    Unfortunately you are not entitled to compensation.
    An analysis of the data for this flight shows that an extraordinary circumstance was the cause of the delay.

    have you seen information to the contrary? was their a technical problem with the aircraft?
    Last edited by Caz3121; 28-11-2017 at 8:26 AM.
    • aah
    • By aah 1st Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    • 509 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    aah
    thankyou - an Air France operator at LIsbon airport told us that the delay was due to overbooking of the flight coming into Lisbon. The pilot told us that further delay was due to the baggage taking time to load
    • IndyPete
    • By IndyPete 7th Dec 17, 8:26 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IndyPete
    Hi all, looking for some help on this one.

    The backstory: Was due to travel from EDI to AMS a while back. The day before, AMS had thunderstorms which caused significant disruptions. As a result, "aircraft and crew were out of position" the following day which caused the cancellation (these are KLM's words in an email I received in response to a request of reimbursement of additional travel expenses). KLM has rejected my compensation claim on the grounds that the flight was cancelled as a consequence of weather disruption the previous day (again, these are KLM's words).

    Now, I have found several references to knock-on effects of extraordinary circumstances not being extraordinary themselves. However, I struggle to find any relevant court rulings that I could cite in my response to KLM (only thing I have found is a ruling against Finnair which deals with being denied boarding on a rescheduled flight). So my question is, are there any court rulings that explicitly state that knock-on effects of weather disruptions are non-extraordinary?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 7th Dec 17, 9:54 AM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Indy - directly from regulation 261/2004:
    Preamble 14:
    "Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier."
    Your flight was not directly affected by the weather the day before.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • IndyPete
    • By IndyPete 7th Dec 17, 10:06 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IndyPete
    Thanks, I'll make a note of that although I expect KLM's response will be that the operation of the flight was indeed incompatible with the weather conditions the previous day. Unfortunately the regulations do not explicitly state that extraordinary circumstances muct affect the flight directly. I was really hoping that there was a court ruling which explicitly considers knock-on effects and deems to be non-extraordinary but maybe there isn't one?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 7th Dec 17, 11:36 AM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    But the regulation does specifically state that an EC can be claimed by the airline with the flight concerned.
    The meteorlogical conditions were not incompatible with the flight concerned ie yours.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • IndyPete
    • By IndyPete 7th Dec 17, 11:40 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IndyPete
    I agree with you but I suspect KLM will not. Anyway, I have sent them a message that I do not agree with their view on the case. I expect they won't budge and that ADR will be the next step.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 7th Dec 17, 12:22 PM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Have you quoted the relevant part of the regulation to them in your reply?
    It matters not if they agree or disagree with the regulation, they have no choice, from a legal point of view.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
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