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    • bettyboon
    • By bettyboon 16th May 17, 4:42 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    bettyboon
    Can anyone offer some thoughts on this please. We flew from Leeds Bradford to Washington DC via Amsterdam. We missed our connection in Amsterdam because the flight from Leeds Bradford was late. KLM say this was down to air traffic control. It is true that we missed our slot to leave Leeds Bradford, but the reason for this was that the aircraft we travelled on was late coming in to Leeds Bradford. Is this reasonable or not?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 16th May 17, 5:26 PM
    • 2,895 Posts
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    JPears
    Can you give a few more details?
    Flight number, dates, times etc. Was flight Amst to Washington KLM too?
    What was said by KLM staff, captain or ground crew regarding the delay?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bettyboon
    • By bettyboon 16th May 17, 6:07 PM
    • 35 Posts
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    bettyboon
    We were booked right through on KLM. This was on 5 April 2017. The flight numbers were KL1542 and KL0651.
    We boarded the aircraft late at Leeds Bradford and we were told that we had missed our slot. The reason we boarded late was because the aircraft had arrived at Leeds Bradford late.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 17th May 17, 12:24 PM
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    JPears
    The history of your aircraft EMB 190 EH-PZT, is as follows:
    Bilvao - Amsterdam Due 09:00, arrived 09:04
    Amsterdam - Leeds, STD 09:40, actual departure 10:07. STA approx 09:40 (Uk time) but I don't know what time it actually arrived. Minimum flight time is usually 45mins (scheduled for an hour) so the earliest time your plane arrived at Leeds would have been 09:50.
    It should have then left Leeds at 10:40 (or was it 10:50) to arrive at12:25, actual arrival 13:02.
    As you can see the 1st flight of the plane for the day from Bibao was more or less on time. But for this aircraft's schedule, KLM only allow a 40-50minute teurn arround time. This is very tight so any delay has a knockon effect.
    Very few other aircraft from Amsterdam at that time were delayed, except interestingly, most KLM flights. My suspicion is that KLM had a system problem affecting just their flights, creating the ATC slot issues.
    Ie their aircraft were not ready.
    Have a look at this link showing all the departures/landings at Amsterdam that day.
    http://schiphol.dutchplanespotters.nl/?date=2017-04-05&group=hourdep
    Either way, this is a knock on effect from previous flight, excerbated by KLM's short turn around time between flights. An operational decision on their part, not ATC.
    So I would suggest you have a claim.
    Last edited by JPears; 17-05-2017 at 12:27 PM.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • bettyboon
    • By bettyboon 17th May 17, 10:02 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    bettyboon
    Thank you so much for your trouble in looking this up for me. We were very late in boarding at Leeds and this does throw some light on it.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 18th May 17, 3:50 PM
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    JPears
    KLM do run tight turn around times and tight flight changes at Schipol.
    Which is a surprise and shame as their business model is run on hub and spoke system, so to fly anywhere with them you invariably have to go to Amsterdam. Just 10 or 15 mins on ech process would make life a lot easier for all. If you look at KLM flights, they are rarely on time.
    Their arguement maybe that it helps keep flight costs down, but KLM aren't particularly cheap except at peak times.
    I have been sat on Leeds runway several times on the dawn flight due to technical or similar. Even had my claim submitted in full once whilst waiting at Schipol for the next availble flight.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • photome
    • By photome 31st May 17, 1:11 AM
    • 12,543 Posts
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    photome
    Fed up using KLM seem to get problems every time, we are in the USA at mo flying home tomorrow.

    Problems flying out, due to lave Norwich at 0920 on the 18th May. we left at about 11am causing us to miss the 1300 to Minneapolis, 2 hours queuing for a rescheduled flight that we eventually got the next morning . klm put us in a hotel overnight in Amsterdam which had its own issues.

    We arrived in Las Vegas nearly 24 hours later than scheduled.

    They say there was problems with refuelling at schipol.

    Are we due any compensation
    • 111KAB
    • By 111KAB 31st May 17, 6:20 AM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,471 Thanks
    111KAB
    Single KLM ticket Norwich to Las Vegas? If so read http://www.4kbw.net/news/15082016185509-court-of-appeal-to-settle-the-question-of-delay-and-missed-connections/
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 31st May 17, 7:20 AM
    • 856 Posts
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    Tyzap
    Provided this is not classed as an EC and because it is an EU carrier, departing from an EU member state, you should be able to claim 261 compensation of 600 Euros each.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • photome
    • By photome 31st May 17, 2:14 PM
    • 12,543 Posts
    • 8,036 Thanks
    photome
    The tickets were Norwich - Amsterdam- Minnesota- Las Vegas. Returning today.

    Haven't read that article fully as need to check out of hotel but isn't that between 2 non eu countries
    • GuyfromHarlem
    • By GuyfromHarlem 2nd Jun 17, 3:03 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    GuyfromHarlem
    Earlier this year my KLM flight home was cancelled for technical reasons. I was rebooked the following morning and that flight ended up being delayed for 4 hours, also due to a technical issue. Not sure whether this counts as one or two claims and the regulations don't seem to specify. Anybody knows? Thanks.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 2nd Jun 17, 3:44 PM
    • 2,895 Posts
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    JPears
    I claim per person. Although both flights were delayed, you only made 1 journey.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • GuyfromHarlem
    • By GuyfromHarlem 2nd Jun 17, 3:51 PM
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    GuyfromHarlem
    Thanks. The first flight wasn't delayed, it was cancelled although I don't know that that's relevant.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 2nd Jun 17, 4:20 PM
    • 4,608 Posts
    • 2,039 Thanks
    Vauban
    Thanks. The first flight wasn't delayed, it was cancelled although I don't know that that's relevant.
    Originally posted by GuyfromHarlem
    It's not relevant. the reason it's one claim is that you (presumably) bought just one ticket, and the airline rerouted you onto the second flight. The regulation says that to have a claim you have to have a paid for ticket. (If after the first flight was cancelled you claimed for a refund - and then bought a new ticket for the rescheduled flight you would gave been entitled in law to two sets of compensation- but who would realistically do that?)
    • GuyfromHarlem
    • By GuyfromHarlem 2nd Jun 17, 4:52 PM
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    GuyfromHarlem
    So if the rebooked flight had been cancelled and I then decided to cancel my travel plans I would not be due a refund since I hadn't paid for that ticket? That sounds crazy to me. Surely the rebooked flight is covered by what I paid for my original ticket?

    Edit: Sorry, reading my post it comes across more argumentative than I intended. I have great respect for the knowledge of the regulars posting in here
    Last edited by GuyfromHarlem; 02-06-2017 at 4:55 PM.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 2nd Jun 17, 5:50 PM
    • 4,608 Posts
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    Vauban
    No not quite. If the rebooked flight had been cancelled too, you'd have been able to claim for one refund of the original ticket and one lot of delay compensation. Basically, the number of compensation awards cant be greater than the number of tickets you actually pay for.
    • photome
    • By photome 6th Jun 17, 9:54 PM
    • 12,543 Posts
    • 8,036 Thanks
    photome
    Fed up using KLM seem to get problems every time, we are in the USA at mo flying home tomorrow.

    Problems flying out, due to lave Norwich at 0920 on the 18th May. we left at about 11am causing us to miss the 1300 to Minneapolis, 2 hours queuing for a rescheduled flight that we eventually got the next morning . klm put us in a hotel overnight in Amsterdam which had its own issues.

    We arrived in Las Vegas nearly 24 hours later than scheduled.

    They say there was problems with refuelling at schipol.

    Are we due any compensation
    Originally posted by photome
    Provided this is not classed as an EC and because it is an EU carrier, departing from an EU member state, you should be able to claim 261 compensation of 600 Euros each.
    Originally posted by Tyzap
    The tickets were Norwich - Amsterdam- Minnesota- Las Vegas. Returning today.

    Haven't read that article fully as need to check out of hotel but isn't that between 2 non eu countries
    Originally posted by photome

    Just had a reply from KLM regarding my claim, see below, is there anything else I can do

    Flight disruption

    Per our records, flight KL1506 was delayed due to unpredictable operational issues (fuel issue at the Schiphol airport). As a result, you missed your onward connecting flights KL6059 and KL6808 and you were rebooked on flights KL605 and UA 492 the following day. I do acknowledge and realise the impact these situations have on the schedule of our passengers.

    In line with current legislation, such situations are considered beyond the control of the airline and do not entitle passengers’ for legal compensation. Please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience encountered by you on this occasion.


    EDIT
    Just to add. KLM staff on the day said we would be able to claim, and the first flight from Norwich sat on the tarmac at Norwich for an hour before take off, we were also told on that flight that we would make the connection as the next flight was delayed ( it wasn't).

    Seems it was a software issue at schipol that was fixed by 0830
    Last edited by photome; 06-06-2017 at 10:02 PM.
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 6th Jun 17, 10:03 PM
    • 10,596 Posts
    • 6,934 Thanks
    Caz3121
    (fuel issue at the Schiphol airport).
    Originally posted by photome
    Looks like you were affected by this http://nltimes.nl/2017/05/18/flight-delays-fuel-supply-disturbance-schiphol
    • photome
    • By photome 6th Jun 17, 10:13 PM
    • 12,543 Posts
    • 8,036 Thanks
    photome
    It looks that way, does that man I have no chance.

    I did put flight details in to one of the online claim companies and it came back that I should be entitled to compensation


    If nothing else is it worth trying one of those companies
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 7th Jun 17, 8:51 AM
    • 856 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Photome,

    The above news article says...

    Some flights could not leave on time for other reasons. Flights are delayed between 30 and 40 minutes. No flights were canceled and no aircrafts were redirected to other airports.

    So you must have been the exception for some reason.

    I believe that you have a valid claim, so decide which claims route is best for you, NWNF or DIY.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
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