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  • cjkeeko
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 13, 11:37 PM
    Klm flight delay Jan 13
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 13, 11:37 PM
    We were flying from Dubai to Glasgow with a connection in Amsterdam. The flights were booked directly with KLM and both flights were on the one boarding card. We experienced a one hour delay in getting to Amsterdam due to a technical fault and this resulted in us missing our connecting flight. KLM customer service at Amsterdam was very poor, we were put on an alternative flight and arrived in Glasgow over six hours late. I sent the compensation template letter to KLM last week and received a reply to say that we were ineligible for compensation as our actual flight delay was only an hour. I have written back to say that I believe they are misinterpreting the legislation as it is the delay arriving at your final destination that counts. I am awaiting a response but just wanted to check that I am right in my understanding that when connecting flights are booked with the carrier and on the one boarding card it is the arrival at final destination that counts.
  • cjkeeko
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 13, 1:03 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 13, 1:03 PM
    There were both klm and on the one ticket, thank you for your advice. I will let you know the outcome.
    Last edited by cjkeeko; 24-01-2013 at 5:00 PM.
  • Justwishin
    • #4
    • 27th Jan 13, 8:52 PM
    Repost from main thread
    • #4
    • 27th Jan 13, 8:52 PM
    klm any advice please. Hi I am posting on behalf of my daughter. She booked a flight to Bangkok from Birmingham for 10/12/12. She has had some correspondence from KLM but all they are offering is a goodwill gesture of a total of £41 for two pax.
    The 1st leg of the journey was originally delayed due to technical reasons, they eventually took off at approx 12.30pm instead of 9.15am landing at Schipol airport too late to catch the second leg of their flight (booked on the same ticket)They then had a long wait in Schipol for the next flight approx 2hrs 30 mins late , therefore their overall landing at Bangkok was approx 4hrs late .
    To add insult to injury they were late landing at Amsterdam on the way back meaning they had missed the connecting flight back to Bham and hanging around Schipol for approx 7hrs !
    Any help will be very much appreciated as KLM are only offering £41 as a goodwill gesture, and I feel this is a valid claim for compensation.

    Thanks

    I need to point out the trip was booked with KLM on one booking ref and checked in on one ticket, although the 2nd leg of the flight was with China Airlines as a star alliance partner.All the docs were from KLM and booking and eticket supplied by KLM.

    Thanks
    • falkirk81
    • By falkirk81 30th Jan 13, 12:16 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    falkirk81
    • #5
    • 30th Jan 13, 12:16 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Jan 13, 12:16 PM
    I posted this question a while back in the more general thread, but i`ll report the jist of it here.

    In August 2011, I had one of my flights cancelled by KLM. I was due to be flying TPA - ATL - AMS - NCL but the plane from AMS was grounded and never left AMS due to a breakdown. I got a call several hours before I was due to check into Tampa airport that my connecting flight in Atlanta was not going to be there as it was cancelled. The next available flight was the next day due to the last leg between AMS and NCL having no spare seats between now and the next day, so I just had to wait.

    No assistance was offered in any form from KLM/Delta over the phone, simply rebooking me the next day was all they would do.

    So after the 24 hour delay in getting home, I wrote to KLM for compensation for the costs incurred and loss of two days work (I would have been home in time to work night shift that night after a few hours sleep and then work a dayshift the next day).

    I was offered and received £25 cash to cover my hire car cost for 24hours and a £75 voucher for the delay.

    I never used the voucher and after reading the posts on here about the amount of compensation I 'should' have received, I rewrote a letter to KLM in December stating that I should legally have been given 600 Euro cash or 800 Euro in vouchers for a delay of 24 hours on a journey of this distance.

    After a couple of emails asking for further details and booking references, I finally and much to my surprise got a positive reply!

    I am getting a voucher for 800 Euro as they have agreed my claim for compensation.

    I write this post so that others may find it benefitial.
  • genieg63
    • #6
    • 30th Jan 13, 5:59 PM
    Reply from air france
    • #6
    • 30th Jan 13, 5:59 PM
    Hi here is the reply from Air France but i actually never received any contact with them regard to the delay and never received any compensation offer as stated in their reply .They have stated that my claim is out of its time limit as i travelled over 2 years ago and they cannot pay any further compensation ,is that correct?


    ************************************************** ******
    Thank you for your recent communication regarding the disruption to your flight AF225 from New Delhi to Paris Charles de Gaulle on 05 April 2010 and about which we have already contacted you on 10 April 2010.

    Our original reference for this was ********** and our goodwill gesture- a travel voucher for 360 GBP- was 0************

    I am sorry for any inconvenience the disruption to your journey may have caused. I can assure that this in no way reflects the standard of service we aim to provide.

    Air travel is governed by the international body of law known as the Montreal Convention of 1999. Article 35 of this regulation sets a time limit of two years from the date of the planned or actual arrival of a flight to claim for damages.

    We have carefully reconsidered your request and taken into account all relevant details for your delayed flight. Consequently, we confirm that you have made this further claim outside this two year limit and so I must respectfully decline your request on this occasion.

    Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to clarify our position in this matter. I do hope that we will have an early opportunity to serve your travel needs again in the future.

    Yours sincerely,

    D.Ralu-Miller / Ms
    Customer Care Europe
    Last edited by genieg63; 02-02-2013 at 5:49 PM.
  • Justwishin
    • #7
    • 30th Jan 13, 7:18 PM
    Response from KLM
    • #7
    • 30th Jan 13, 7:18 PM
    [QUOTE=Centipede100;58945687]Just to clarify, the first leg of your daughter's journey was from BHX to AMS on a KLM flight which was delayed to the extent that she missed the connection onto the China Airlines flight from AMS to BKK. She arrived in BKK more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled.

    If my summary is correct, then each passenger on the reservation is entitled to 600 euros compensation. The airline will inevitably claim that the delay is due to technical issues and extraordinary circumstances but the ECJ has ruled in both the Sturgeon and Wallentin-Hermann precedent cases that Technical Issues would not normally be a valid defence under the Regulation.

    Your daughter's hand will be further strengthened at the end of February when the ECJ hands down judgment in the Folkerts case. This concerned a passenger who was delayed on their first leg for less than 3 hours, but missed their onward connection and meant that they arrived at their final destination more than 3 hours later than originally scheduled.

    As the judges in the Folkerts case have not asked for a Legal Opinion from the Advocate General you can be certain that this is because the case raises no new points of law and that the precedent case law in Sturgeon for this point will be followed in the forthcoming judgment (i.e. delays of more than 3 hours arriving at the passengers' final destination may be compensated).[/QUOTE

    Thank you for your reply. Indeed you have summarised it correctly.We have received a very speedy response as follows, and they still haven't really grasped the problem. At the very least they are liablke for the first leg BHX to AMS ! What I don't understand from their reply is that the booking was made on one ticket with both boarding passes issued at BHX .Any suggectons what to write next ?
    Here is their reply (and they can't even get the title correcet it's Ms not Mrs!
    Thanks .
    Subject: *****KLM reference ***
    Dear Mrs. ....,,
    Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I cannot inform you differently than already done. The EU Regulation states how airlines must act according to their operation. Since this concerns a separate ticket this is not applicable. In case of all itinerary issued in one ticket the delaying airline is responsible for the continuing flights in the itinerary and issued in one ticket. In case of separate tickets there is no contract for KLM for the continuous flights issued on a different ticket.
    I am sorry to be of no further assistance except for the payment of the direct costs. I will await your bank details and further needed information in order to reimburse you these costs.
    With kind regards,
    PASSENGER BUSINESS
    Emmy Vonhof-Ormel
    Customer Care
    KLM Nederland
    Last edited by Justwishin; 31-01-2013 at 10:22 AM.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 31st Jan 13, 8:26 AM
    • 18,198 Posts
    • 7,490 Thanks
    richardw
    • #8
    • 31st Jan 13, 8:26 AM
    • #8
    • 31st Jan 13, 8:26 AM
    Delete that identifying information ASAP justwishin! Airlines are reading this! Centipede100 doesn't need it.
    Last edited by richardw; 31-01-2013 at 8:28 AM.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
  • Justwishin
    • #9
    • 31st Jan 13, 10:27 AM
    • #9
    • 31st Jan 13, 10:27 AM
    Hi centipede can you edit out name and reference from your quoted reply please .I have changed original as advised Many thanks .
  • Justwishin
    Thanks , looking forward to your advice
    • Mark2spark
    • By Mark2spark 31st Jan 13, 12:06 PM
    • 2,174 Posts
    • 766 Thanks
    Mark2spark
    FAQ's

    All blue words are links to relevant posts. Some are quoted just to save you doing that

    WARNING
    Claiming may not be a walk in the park. So research this (long) thread and the MSE article in order to discover useful information before you ask a question!

    Airline bust= no claim

    Anything from 17th Feb 2005 -you can claim but if the airline says no - you can't take them to court.

    Flight Stats

    Small claims time limit Its 6 years

    Package holiday flights ARE covered.


    Regulation261\2004

    MSE article corrected

    Technical fault with plane is NOT "extra ordinary circumstances" so you CAN claim
    Extraordinary circumstances + Extra ordinary Circumstances
    Technical issues
    More Technical issues with background

    Thomas Cook address
    Thomas cook incident Oct 26 2012

    KLM Claim form
    Ryanair address
    Ryanair Irish appeal explained - New!
    How to combat Ryanair using the English Court System New!
    BA Address
    BA complaint web-site

    BA forum explaining the regulation in plain english *ESSENTIAL READING*

    Jet airways address
    Compensation per person + Monarch email
    Monarch Claim form

    Centipede100 Template letter
    CAA Template letter


    Airline claims 2 years maximum to claim The UK time limit is 6 years, - that's the Law

    Judgement on 22nd NOV confirms the limit is whatever applies in the Country-UK is 6 years
    CAA Denied boarding
    Right to Care
    CAA contact details
    European small claims

    Original Sturgeon judgment giving rise to delay compensation:

    Legal challenge to Sturgeon judgment:

    MCOL : Link to the Court Forms
  • genieg63
    Next move ?
    So what is my next move ,do i need to contact the Caa ,what letter do i issue ?
  • genieg63
    3rd reply from air france still not paying
    Here is my 3rd reply from air france after i issued your letter with regard to court action and the ECJ, so do i go to the CAA now as they are still refusing to pay ?

    Our reference :

    Dear Mrs

    Thank you for your further communication of 05 February in reply to mine of 01February.
    From this, I am sorry to learn that you are not in agreement with our previous reply. Whilst this is always of concern to us, I must confirm that we maintain our stance in this matter, i.e. that a time limit of two years exists in which to bring such a claim.

    This time limit of two years is indeed set out in the Montreal Convention of 1999. Article 35 of this convention stipulates that, 'the right to damages shall be extinguished if an action is not brought within a period of two years, reckoned from the date of arrival at the destination, or from the date on which the aircraft ought to have arrived, or from the date on which the carriage stopped.'

    Furthermore, there is an international consensus between nations to respect a general and fundamental principle concerning the hierarchy in law. This is as follows:

    1 - The National Constitution of the State, or its equivalent
    2 - The International Treaties or Conventions which are duly ratified by the State
    3 - The State's National Law
    4 - Statutory Acts (Regulations, Decrees, Judgements, etc.)

    It therefore follows that the articles contained in an International Convention which is ratified by a given State take precedence over the National Law of that State.

    It is also a fundamental principle of law that special rules supersede general rules and therefore, in the case of States having ratified the Montreal or Warsaw Conventions, the limitation period of two years in which to bring a claim for damages arising during air transportation takes precedence over any general limitation period mentioned in the State's National Law.

    Concerning the travel voucher which was offered to you on 10 April 2010 I must point out that it was an electronic one and the confirmation of it was in the emailed communication sent to you by my colleague at the time ,as a follow up and explanation concerning the disruption to your journey. No paper document was therefore sent.

    I am sorry you were unable to make use of it within the one year validity stated but must point out that the voucher stopped being valid on 10 April 2011. Please see below a copy of our 10 April emailed message to you.

    I am sorry to disappoint you once more, as I understand that this is not the answer you wished for. However, I do hope we can move forward from this point that and that we might have an early opportunity to restore your confidence in our service.

    Yours sincerely,

    Customer Care
    • Mark2spark
    • By Mark2spark 8th Feb 13, 12:28 AM
    • 2,174 Posts
    • 766 Thanks
    Mark2spark
    Straight to Court Genie, let them tell the judge that they shouldn't be there
  • ELIBEC
    Flight delay Aug 2010 too late to claim?
    Any advice appreciated.

    Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
    Thanks for reading.
  • blondmark
    Any advice appreciated.

    Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
    Thanks for reading.
    Originally posted by ELIBEC
    If you are a consumer based in England then the relevant time period is 6 years - not 2. (Section 9 of the Limitation Act [1980] provides that "an action to recover any sum recoverable by virtue of any enactment shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date of which the cause of action accrued.")

    Why does English law apply?

    The Brussels Regulation provides that the contract between a business (KLM) and a consumer (you) cannot deprive the consumer of the protection of the laws of the country in which s/he has her/his habitual residence (i.e. England).

    This is echoed in the E-Commerce Regulations 2002 which, while providing for a "country of origin" principle meaning that suppliers will only be liable in their home jurisdiction, specifically excludes consumer transactions from such protection.

    This means that KLM will be obliged to meet all of the legal requirements relating to the sale of services of the type being sold in the country where you are based.

    You would sue KLM under the European Small Claims Procedure using Form A to be issued in an English county court and served on them in Holland. You might want to check first though whether you must serve your proceedings in Dutch (e-mail THESE PEOPLE). If so, the cost of professional translation can be included in your claim.
  • ryesmile
    Who do I claim from - travel agent or airline?
    I booked flights via Asda Travel (for myself) and Opodo (for my parents) with KLM in December 2007.

    Flights were from Birmingham to Almaty (Kazakhstan) via Amsterdam. Flights were made on the same booking reference.

    Total delay was 36 hours - flight was cancelled twice (first time round the BHX-AMS leg was cancelled, second time AMS-ALA was cancelled) and I was flown via Paris and Moscow.

    First question, do I claim from the agents or KLM? And secondly, does the total travel distance count for the calculation of compensation ie 6000km not 500km for the first leg?
  • Colmorgan
    We flew with Klm from ams to Dubai feb 2012, flight cancelled, put up in hotel, fed, flew next day got 50€ voucher each.
    Copied and pasted the standard letter in here last week asking for €600 each, within a week got £250 vouchers each so am pleased with that
    • TiTheRev
    • By TiTheRev 13th Feb 13, 7:45 AM
    • 3,134 Posts
    • 1,096 Thanks
    TiTheRev
    In Dec '09 we were on a Christmas break to SA with Air France and the snow delayed our flight from Heathrow to Paris, and then we missed our next two connecting flights from Paris to Jo'burg and from Jo'burg to East London. I actually had to buy a new ticket for the connecting flight for all four of us. I complained at the time and got a voucher for £200, but never used it as we couldn't afford another holiday that next year, where do we stand there do you think?

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    Luke 6:38
    The above post is either from personal experience or is my opinion based on the person God has made me and the way I understand things. Please don't be offended if that opinion differs from yours, but feel free to click the 'Thanks' button if it's at all helpful!
  • twix72
    please help
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