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    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 24th Apr 17, 5:43 AM
    • 10,810 Posts
    • 7,043 Thanks
    Caz3121
    Posting for advice please.
    We were booked on a Virgin flight on Friday 21st 1030 due to land in Orlando at 1445. We were notified in Feb that we were now booked on a flight due to leave at 1245 and land at 1645. On the day we were notified that the flight was delayed until 1530. We actually departed at 1551 and landed just before 1900.

    As we landed over 4 hours later than our original flight are we entitled to compensation? Does the fact they notified us 2 months ago affect this?
    Originally posted by debjay
    The schedule change in advance means the relevant scheduled arrival time for compensation is 16:45. Your arrival at 19:00 means that you were 2 hours and 15 minutes delayed so no compensation is due
    Last edited by Caz3121; 24-04-2017 at 6:15 AM.
    • debjay
    • By debjay 24th Apr 17, 12:10 PM
    • 2,049 Posts
    • 8,503 Thanks
    debjay
    Thanks for that. I guessed that as we were notified in advance of the change we wouldn't be entitled. However I was hoping that it would be the delay between our original arrival of 1445 and 1900 which would count. When I've put the details into a couple of online sites it suggested we did have a claim. Is it worth trying anyway?
    • asheilio
    • By asheilio 16th May 17, 10:06 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    asheilio
    Re: Delta Airlines operated by Virgin Atlantic - Denied boarding
    So an update:

    We sent the following email to Virgin

    Dear (removed)

    Thank you for responding to my email.

    Disappointingly, the Virgin Staff at JFK airport must not be aware of your policy as they did not take care of alternative arrangements by re-booking the flight and offering any applicable compensation. In fact they were not very helpful at all.

    For clarity, below is the summarised sequence of events that unfolded:

    Flight VS10 was scheduled to depart at 09:30pm, we presented ourselves at the Virgin Atlantic (VA) check in desk at 08:15pm. The VA staff claimed they had no ticket for us on this flight, even though we were able to show and confirm our booking reservation. They told us to check in at the Delta (D) desk. We then spoke to the D staff and they were able to find our ticket on their system, but because the flight was being operated by VA they could not print our tickets. As a result of the failure of Virgin Atlantic's IT systems we missed the flight and D booked us on the next available D flight which was the next day. We were told to book a hotel ourselves and come back the next day. There was no mention of compensation or passenger rights by either airline. The VA staff had already packed up and gone home by the time Delta had re-booked us on a flight. This was especially disappointing as the check-in desks for Virgin Atlantic and Delta were opposite each other and so it was clear the Virgin Atlantic staff had no interest in our situation.

    As you can see that Delta managed to re-book us on the flight DL402 flight departing at 08:30pm the next day, you will also note that on the itinerary provided to us for flight VS10 (attached) you will note that our ticket reference is hand-written on it. Having a ticket reference written on my Itinerary would indicate that we arrived on-time for our flight and that the problem may have been with your IT systems and not with us presenting ourselves to check-in at the correct time. You may also wish to check the status of flight D790 Punta Cana - JFK as you will find it arrived within ~10 minutes of the scheduled arrival time.

    Unfortunately, the responses so far have not been satisfactory as no progress has been made toward adequate compensation for the amount I and my party are due by law. Unless a full and satisfactory response to this letter is received, I intend to pursue my complaint further, which could mean taking it to court.

    Yours faithfully,
    (removed)


    After about a week, we had heard nothing back so we decided to post on their facebook and twitter profiles. The next day we recieved the following email:

    Dear (removed) ,

    Thank you for your further email.

    I'm so sorry for the confusion regarding your flight. I understand this must have been upsetting for you. In order to bring this to an amicable close, I've arranged for reimbursement in the amount of £295.93. I have converted this on (link removed), rate of exchange 1 USD = 0.775999 GBP. Please follow the instructions via the below link to claim this.

    We want to make sure you receive the payment that’s due to you as soon as possible. To arrange this, please click on the link below to create a profile, enter your bank details and redeem your payment invitation.

    (section removed)

    Regarding any EU compensation, you will need to fill in a claims form below. Please note, every customer needs to fill in their own form.

    (removed)

    Once again, I am sorry for any inconvenience caused to you this time. We hope to have the pleasure of welcoming you onboard soon.

    Kind Regards,


    So the amount they have offered to reimburse us is the total cost of our expenses that we incurred during our layover.

    Should the compensation claim be made separate to the reimbursement of associated expenses?

    I would appreciate if someone could reassure me that I am not missing anything here. I'm just nervous they may be trying to pull a fast one on me, and that I won't receive the full compensation we are due.

    Thanks guys.
    A
    Last edited by asheilio; 16-05-2017 at 1:33 PM.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 16th May 17, 12:07 PM
    • 3,149 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    JPears
    You should reply stating that you will accept the amount offered ONLY in relation to additinal expenses incurred due to their incompetance.
    State that it will have no affect your right to make a seperate claim for compnesation under reg 261/2004.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 18th Jul 17, 12:45 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 282 Thanks
    Timothea
    Interestingly, your case is similar to mine. I am pretty sure you are also due US denied-boarding compensation if you had a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation issued by an airline or a travel agent. IT problems are not a valid excuse. Please see this thread for more information:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5547492
    • asheilio
    • By asheilio 3rd Aug 17, 10:37 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    asheilio
    Re: Delta Airlines operated by Virgin Atlantic - Denied boarding
    A Further Update

    Hi [removed]

    Thank you for your email.

    With regards to the reimbursement for the amount $[removed]
    We will accept the amount offered only as reimbursement for additional expenses we incurred as a result of our flight delay which was caused entirely by Virgin Atlantic's incompetence.
    Furthermore, acceptance of this offer does not affect our legal right to seek compensation in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004.

    Kind Regards,
    [removed]
    Dear [removed],

    Thank you for your EU Claim application.

    Unfortunately, the details you have provided do not match up with our records. The [removed] from JFK to London Heathrow on the [removed] 2017 was not delayed and in fact arrived 18 minutes ahead of schedule.

    Therefore, in the first instance we will be rejecting your claim. If you have any further information regarding the delay you suffered, please feel free to get back in touch and we will be happy to investigate further. Perhaps it was a different flight under a separate booking reference?

    I hope you have a lovely day.
    Yours sincerely
    [removed]
    Dear [removed]

    Thank you for your email.

    Unfortunately the progress being made on this matter is not acceptable.

    Please see the attached document which I have attached numerous times already to numerous virgin staff members. If you read it you will see that we were denied boarding and therefore my party and I were delayed for 23 hours before flying and I am seeking compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 for this flight.

    Yours frustratingly,
    [removed]
    To whom it may concern

    Please provide an update on the progress being made regarding my flight claim. I have not had any response following my email sent on [removed]

    Thank you in advance for your response.
    Regards,
    [removed]
    Dear [removed]

    Thank you for your EU Claim Application. I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

    Having fully investigated and reviewed your details, I can confirm that we have now had correspondence with Delta confirming they are at fault for the error with your booking. They have advised me that they will be reviewing your claim and so they should be in touch with you very soon.

    Once again, I am truly sorry for the upset and inconvenience caused to you on this occasion. Please rest assured this has been fed back to the relevant managers to be looked into internally. I sincerely hope we have the pleasure of welcoming you onboard again soon.

    Kind Regards,
    [removed]
    Dear [removed]

    Thank you for your email.

    It is regrettable that it has taken 29 days for you to provide me with an update to my issue, even after I sent a further email requesting an update on [removed]

    My lawyer has asked that you please provide me with more information regarding the cause of the issue that resulted in our party missing our flight and the reasons why DELTA have claimed responsibility?

    Please be aware that under EU Regulation 261/2004 the "operating air carrier" of the flight (in this case Virgin Atlantic) is liable for compensation.

    Therefore I am requesting you (Virgin Atlantic) to continue to process my claim for compensation that I and my party are due under EU Regulation 261/2004.

    Kind regards,
    [removed]
    Dear [removed]

    Thank you for your further email. I appreciate there has been a delay in us getting back to you and I hope you can accept my sincerest apologies for this. I can understand how disappointing this has been for you.

    As we have previously advised under reference [removed], our flight did operated as scheduled. Therefore, there has been no disruption to your journey caused by Virgin Atlantic. Since we received your original email, we have been trying to clarify with Delta exactly what happened on their side. There has been much confusion regarding this and so, as we were not getting a clear answer, I agreed to reimburse your expenses, rather than have you wait for Delta to decipher what went wrong.

    When coming across your EU claim, I contacted Delta again and had this escalated due to the previous confusion. They have now confirmed to me that the error was on their part and when you checked in for your flight with Delta, they cancelled your Virgin Atlantic flight out of the system. This is what caused the error and why you were unable to travel. Again, to save you having to wait for Delta to correspond with you, and to avoid further upset and inconvenience to you both, I have arranged for EU compensation for denied boarding in the total amount of £2053.78. This has been converted on [removed], rate of exchange 1USD = 0.760656GBP.

    This payment will be made to the bank account details you provide via the link below. By submitting your bank details to us, you agree to distribute the compensation in accordance with the wishes of the passengers listed below.

    [removed]

    We want to make sure you receive the payment that’s due to you as soon as possible. To arrange this, please click on the link below to go to your profile where you can enter your bank details.

    [removed]

    Kind Regards,
    [removed]
    Last edited by asheilio; 03-08-2017 at 11:01 PM.
    • asheilio
    • By asheilio 3rd Aug 17, 10:48 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    asheilio
    Anyone care to speculate why they are offering more than the maximum compensation rate? €1200 was what we were expecting.

    While the error may have been with Delta, it is my understanding that Virgin as the 'operating carrier', are ultimately responsible for compensation regarding this EU regulation. As timothea posted above, I may also have a route to go down against DELTA too for their part in this.

    Thanks above for the help, I would have given up long ago without the advice on this site.
    Last edited by asheilio; 03-08-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 3rd Aug 17, 10:53 PM
    • 1,053 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Great result, you persevered and got your reward.

    Well done asheilio

    They seem to have made a complete mess of the calculation.
    Last edited by Tyzap; 03-08-2017 at 11:05 PM.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 3rd Aug 17, 11:15 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 282 Thanks
    Timothea
    Anyone care to speculate why they are offering more than the maximum compensation rate? €1200 was what we were expecting.
    Originally posted by asheilio
    It looks like they applied the EUR-GBP exchange rate the wrong way, and then did the same for the USD-GBP exchange rate, which isn't even relevant?? I would just keep quiet and see what they actually pay you. Some account may spot the error.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 18th Sep 17, 11:44 PM
    • 3,149 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    JPears
    bumped to tidy board
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 4th Oct 17, 6:41 PM
    • 36,050 Posts
    • 151,599 Thanks
    silvercar
    I wonder if you can pass your collective wisdom to a thread that was accidentally posted on the wrong board:

    Hi has anyone claimed money back and what happened?

    I applied months ago to virgin and have been constantly requesting a response as they said within 28days and this was in may.i even received an email asking for feedback on the service even though i hadnt even had any service as yet.

    Anyway just received a response that says the plane had a fuel leak so my claims been rejected because it was a fuel leak and they couldnt have a crew waiting or something . Is this valid? Has anyone else had the same

    Background the plane was delayed for 3/4hours on they way there as it had problems we didnt claim for that but on the way back we had the same plane and were delayed for over 24hours.we had to have food tokens and change of hotel etc

    Shall i leave it or appeal? I can copy their response if it would help.
    by minnie2
    We regret to advise that we have declined your claim on the grounds that the cause of the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which were beyond the actual control of Virgin Atlantic and which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    In your particular case the flight was delayed because of an unexpected technical issue on the aircrafts previous sector, which was flying from London Gatwick to Las Vegas to operate the VS44 the same day.

    The aircraft encountered an engine pylon fuel leak prior to departure. This was completely unexpected because the aircraft had not shown indications of this problem on previous sectors. Our engineers made several attempts to rectify the problem, but the fix proved to be quite complex and took longer than expected to resolve.

    It would be an intolerable sacrifice for us to keep a contingency of stand by crew and flight deck as well as spare aircraft at all of our outstations in the event of such a rare occurrence.
    by minnie2
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debate House Prices & the Economy, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Mortgages and Endowments, In My Home incl DIY, Overseas Holidays & Student boards.
    I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 4th Oct 17, 6:58 PM
    • 1,053 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi Silvercar/minnie2,

    You have a perfectly valid claim, they are trying to fob you off.

    A fuel leak is just another technical fault. Technical faults are not an excuse for the airline to refuse compensation.

    Google and then download 'Vaubans guide' for all the info you need.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • minnie2
    • By minnie2 4th Oct 17, 9:30 PM
    • 480 Posts
    • 7,988 Thanks
    minnie2
    Thank you tyzap i thought it was a bit odd their response but i have no idea if it was valid or not.it was a really rubbish end to our holiday.the hotel we were sent to didnt have a clue either we had to wait around for hours in their lobby. We got a piece of paper about air miles because they messed up so i know they know it was their fault. And i didnt understand how they can say it was extraordinary circumstances beyond their controls when they had had probs with the same plane 10days earlier.they could have got us another plane.

    Will that guide tell me what i should respond back with? This is first ever thing ive done like this and am pretty clueless.
    Frugal living challenge - need to revisit its been.a while !! Need to reduce our debts!!
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 4th Oct 17, 10:56 PM
    • 1,053 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Will that guide tell me what i should respond back with? This is first ever thing ive done like this and am pretty clueless.
    Originally posted by minnie2
    Hi,

    Yes, it's very comprehensive. Once you have down loaded it have a read and note that, at the bottom of the guide, you will find links to the Wallentin-Hermann case and the Huzar case. Both of these cases support your claim. You can quote them to Virgin to add weight and to pressure them into paying up quickly, well hopefully!

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • minnie2
    • By minnie2 5th Oct 17, 8:05 PM
    • 480 Posts
    • 7,988 Thanks
    minnie2
    Ive just looked at the wallentin-hermann and it seems their repsonse quotes a lot of phrases from this case so they seemed to be clued up on it . although it went in the passengers favour theyve still quoted phrases from it.
    Frugal living challenge - need to revisit its been.a while !! Need to reduce our debts!!
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 5th Oct 17, 11:05 PM
    • 1,053 Posts
    • 525 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Ive just looked at the wallentin-hermann and it seems their repsonse quotes a lot of phrases from this case so they seemed to be clued up on it . although it went in the passengers favour theyve still quoted phrases from it.
    Originally posted by minnie2
    They are deliberately twisting the wording to confuse you and to make it sound like the law is on their side, it most definitely is not.

    You should report them to the CAA as this is a very deliberate effort to misrepresent the law of the land as a means to saving them money.

    They are claiming the an 'unexpected technical issue' is an extraordinary circumstance. It is not, and the CAA can confirm this with a quick phone call, should you need further confirmation.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 6th Oct 17, 7:44 AM
    • 3,149 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    JPears
    Agreed. If you could post up their defence, it would be iteresting to see how the are twisting Wallantin and deliberatll obfuscating your valid claim
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • minnie2
    • By minnie2 6th Oct 17, 8:11 AM
    • 480 Posts
    • 7,988 Thanks
    minnie2
    Originally Posted by minnie2
    We regret to advise that we have declined your claim on the grounds that the cause of the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which were beyond the actual control of Virgin Atlantic and which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    In your particular case the flight was delayed because of an unexpected technical issue on the aircrafts previous sector, which was flying from London Gatwick to Las Vegas to operate the VS44 the same day.

    The aircraft encountered an engine pylon fuel leak prior to departure. This was completely unexpected because the aircraft had not shown indications of this problem on previous sectors. Our engineers made several attempts to rectify the problem, but the fix proved to be quite complex and took longer than expected to resolve.

    It would be an intolerable sacrifice for us to keep a contingency of stand by crew and flight deck as well as spare aircraft at all of our outstations in the event of such a rare occurrence.
    Frugal living challenge - need to revisit its been.a while !! Need to reduce our debts!!
    • minnie2
    • By minnie2 6th Oct 17, 8:13 AM
    • 480 Posts
    • 7,988 Thanks
    minnie2
    I thought for someone to say an intolerable sacrifice in a email was a bit odd but its in that case.
    Frugal living challenge - need to revisit its been.a while !! Need to reduce our debts!!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 6th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • 3,149 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    JPears
    It doesn't matter, its a smokescreen to put you off. The palne, on its previous flight had a tehnical issue. Not EC, end of. And a knock on effect. Double end of.
    Continue with your claim.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
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