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    • Joosh
    • By Joosh 29th Mar 17, 10:26 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Joosh
    Thank you.
    If its not cheap, find a way to make it cheap.
    • Joosh
    • By Joosh 29th Mar 17, 10:31 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Joosh
    Hi guys,

    An EasyJet flight a family member was on, due to go from Gibraltar back to Bristol UK recently was delayed by over 24 hrs in Gibraltar due to a bird strike on the incoming aircraft.

    Eventually they flew home from Malaga, over a day later.

    I have chased this up with EasyJet on behalf of the aforementioned family member as they do not have the confidence/capability to do it themselves.

    EasyJet have replied classing bird strikes as Extraordinary Circumstances, however I've heard that this may not be true due to the airline paying the airport for bird clearing services, plus the fact that bird strikes may be a normal occurrence during standard airline ways of business.

    Also, I don't see how it takes over 24 hours to get people on a replacement plane back from Gibraltar. It's a 2-3hr flight.

    Could it be argued that bird strikes are not extraordinary circumstances and that easyJet did not do all in their power to reduce the delay?

    They have been very stubborn so far, despite my citing of some court cases disagreeing with the easyJet decision.

    Cheers,
    Joosh
    If its not cheap, find a way to make it cheap.
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 29th Mar 17, 11:21 PM
    • 1,013 Posts
    • 425 Thanks
    Justice13075
    A bird strike is not an extraordinary circumstance and in any case it was on the incoming aircraft so it was a knock on effect. Download and read Vaubans guide all explained in there.
    • clairet707
    • By clairet707 5th Apr 17, 8:31 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    clairet707
    Got confirmation on monday that CEDR have decided EJ have to pay us compensation

    Ive been on and accepted it, anyone any idea how long they take to pay up? I want to book this years holiday and that cash would come in very handy (not flying with EJ)
    • gcdh
    • By gcdh 19th Apr 17, 1:25 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    gcdh
    Got confirmation on monday that CEDR have decided EJ have to pay us compensation

    Ive been on and accepted it, anyone any idea how long they take to pay up? I want to book this years holiday and that cash would come in very handy (not flying with EJ)
    Originally posted by clairet707
    Hi clairet707,

    I don't believe it - I've just had my compensation claim for the same flight as you rejected!

    I was so despondent that I came on MSE to see if anyone had any advice on how to appeal and came across your recent posts. We were on that same nightmare flight back from Corfu - too coincidental not to be!

    Please may I DM you? I'd love your help regarding what you submitted in your claim. It's ridiculous that mine got rejected given no other flights cancalled or even delayed significantly, plus much of the evidence was either the wrong date or too vague.

    Thanks so much,

    gcdh
    • clairet707
    • By clairet707 19th Apr 17, 1:29 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    clairet707
    Sure no problem, I got the compensation yesterday 😀 we have now booked a holiday for later this year witht the cash
    • gcdh
    • By gcdh 19th Apr 17, 1:31 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    gcdh
    Sure no problem, I got the compensation yesterday 😀 we have now booked a holiday for later this year witht the cash
    Originally posted by clairet707
    Amazing! Well deserved given the horrors we faced last October! I've just sent you a private message
    • Gamegal
    • By Gamegal 19th Apr 17, 3:20 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    Gamegal
    From Easyjet via their Facebook page 23 hrs ago!

    easyJet is sorry for the recently reported poor service our customers have received. We feel that these circumstances are very rare, but know in these instances we should have done better.

    We’ve made it easier for our customers to claim compensation (EC261) or expenses, whatever the circumstances. We outline compensation for overbooked customers on our website, and where claims can be submitted in minutes and typically claims are processed and paid within 7days.

    We have improved our processes in our contact centres to ensure that customers are not put through a similar experience. We realise this should have been handled in a better way, and have picked this up with the team involved. Again we are sorry for what has happened.

    If you believe that you were denied boarding on an overbooked flight and you haven’t received compensation please contact easyJet on 0207 517 7103, where a dedicated team will look into your case immediately.


    And then more recently

    If any of our customers have remaining claims regarding possible denied boarding or associated expenses, please do give us a call on 0207 517 7102 to speak to one of our specialists.
    • gcdh
    • By gcdh 20th Apr 17, 5:00 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    gcdh
    Sure no problem, I got the compensation yesterday 😀 we have now booked a holiday for later this year witht the cash
    Originally posted by clairet707
    Oh my goodness, CEDR have refused to reopen the case or let us start a new one. They said each decision is made on a case by case basis so if different adjudicators their interpretations have to be respected! This is despite the fact that we were on the same flight and EasyJet used the exact same "defence" against us.

    Does anyone have any advice? We were just told by CEDR to try the small claims court if we wish, but this just all seems grossly unfair :-(
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 20th Apr 17, 6:04 PM
    • 4,708 Posts
    • 2,085 Thanks
    Vauban
    Oh my goodness, CEDR have refused to reopen the case or let us start a new one. They said each decision is made on a case by case basis so if different adjudicators their interpretations have to be respected! This is despite the fact that we were on the same flight and EasyJet used the exact same "defence" against us.

    Does anyone have any advice? We were just told by CEDR to try the small claims court if we wish, but this just all seems grossly unfair :-(
    Originally posted by gcdh
    Some CEDR rejected your case, not just the airline?

    How about you tell us exactly what was said, and the circumstances of your delay, and then maybe we can offer proper advice?
    • kels146
    • By kels146 20th Apr 17, 7:36 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kels146
    Are Easyjet brushing me off?
    Hi all - new to this forum so please bear with me!


    Long story short - easyjet flight to Iceland from Luton couldn't land because the pilot stated it was too windy. Flew us back to Glasgow where he had to re-fuel, and then onto Luton... 8 hour flight to return back to where we started!
    When coming in to land, nothing seemed extraordinary except the pilot telling us about 30 mins beforehand that it might be a bit windy... when he pulled up (about 25 feet off the runway), even the crew seemed shocked (I was sitting in front of 2 of them so could see their faces and hear their comments). He came out onto the flight deck about 20 mins later visibly shaking whilst holding the microphone, to tell us he was sorry but it hadn't been possible to land the plane as it was just too bad weather-wise! Hmmm, more like he bottled it
    Investigating this when we returned home, we got proof that every flight into Iceland had landed that day (59 other flights) except ours - one was 6 mins before ours and one was 6 mins after!
    Ground crew told us on arrival back to Luton that we were entitled to full compensation and that we only needed to claim following a little orange leaflet they gave us.
    Since then, Easyjet have now refused twice to pay out, either for delay compensation or for food and taxi costs to and in the hotel they put on, as they state bad weather is not covered under the EU Law. In their second response when I raised a complaint, they state 'this is our final decision and we will not enter into any further discussion with you!' Charming...
    Where do I stand when clearly this was pilot incompetence or something else that's hidden, rather than bad weather!
    I am so upset by this situation as we lost 24 hours of a surprise 40th birthday present, and the way Easyjet are responding just seems very rude and unhelpful... and funnily enough you cant ring them to complain, it all has to be in writing!
    Thanks for reading
    Kellie
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 20th Apr 17, 8:00 PM
    • 4,708 Posts
    • 2,085 Thanks
    Vauban
    Nobody is more encouraging than me in my enthusiasm for passengers exercising their rights under the flight delay regulation.

    But seriously! Have you read how you sound? How do you know that the pilot "bottled it"? That sounds pretty implausible to me. And although other aircraft might have landed, cross winds affect different planes in different ways.

    Unless you can provide any evidence that this was "pilot incompetence" or "something hidden", you're going to struggle to make a claim stick in the courts - which is your only alternative remedy.

    Even if the delay is caused by weather, you're entitled to accommodation costs and reasonable food (if you have receipts).
    • bagand96
    • By bagand96 20th Apr 17, 8:31 PM
    • 2,776 Posts
    • 1,719 Thanks
    bagand96
    Hmmm, more like he bottled it
    Well obviously you are well qualified to make that statement. More qualified than the Captain of the aircraft who is trained to make such decisions and who's ultimate responsibility is to get himself, the rest of his crew, and all his passengers back on Earth in one piece!

    Investigating this when we returned home, we got proof that every flight into Iceland had landed that day (59 other flights) except ours - one was 6 mins before ours and one was 6 mins after
    While incredibly frustrating, it's not really relevant. Wind is a dynamic thing and moves by the second. You probably were very unlucky that the wind was such a problem at the exact time your landing was attempted but its impossible to forecast it that accurately and if it was too dangerous to continue the approach then so be it.

    this was pilot incompetence or something else that's hidden, rather than bad weather!
    It is exactly the opposite. It is a case of a competent Captain and his ops department making difficult but safe decisions in order to keep you safe. Keeping going against the odds has resulted in thousands of deaths in aeroplanes. Sounds dramatic? Maybe... but its the truth.

    As per the EU legislation weather is considered beyond the airline's control. Vauban is absolutely correct, you can claim for reasonable food and taxi costs.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 20th Apr 17, 10:24 PM
    • 18,306 Posts
    • 7,577 Thanks
    richardw
    ....I am so upset by this situation as we lost 24 hours of a surprise 40th birthday present...
    Originally posted by kels146
    Hi Kellie, Welcome to MSE. Sometimes bad weather gets in the way of the convenience and speed of air travel and your plans can go wrong. The highly trained easyJet pilot seems to have avoided bad wind conditions which may have been too risky and taken appropriate action.
    Last edited by richardw; 20-04-2017 at 10:37 PM.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • gcdh
    • By gcdh 20th Apr 17, 11:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    gcdh
    Some CEDR rejected your case, not just the airline?

    How about you tell us exactly what was said, and the circumstances of your delay, and then maybe we can offer proper advice?
    Originally posted by Vauban
    Hi Vauban,

    I was on an EasyJet flight from Corfu to Luton last October which was delayed by 11 hours. They claim it was due to bad weather (but no other inbound and outbound flights were cancelled or delayed for this long) which meant they diverted to Athens and hit issue of staff reaching their maximum hours.

    Our claim was rejected by CEDR last week. I wanted to investigate the possibility of appealing and/or any next steps, which is how I came across this forum. Scrolling through responses, I came across clairet202 who had sought advice for her claim... And her description of it matched my flight. Her latest post said her claim has been successful, so I contacted her to confirm it was the same flight. She kindly did so and sent me what evidence EasyJet submitted against her claim (which she refers to in previous posts). Their defence is EXACTLY the same document as what they submitted for my claim.

    I contacted CEDR today to ask why ours was rejected and can we submit a new claim. They are firmly refusing, on the basis that each adjudicator comes to their own decision and interpretation of the evidence, even if the claim and evidence submitted in defence is exactly the same. To quote from their email:
    "...unfortunately this case can’t be re-opened. Each adjudicator is entitled to reach their own conclusions on each case and their view of e.g. ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may differ from case to case. I understand that you may find this frustrating but this process ensures the complete impartiality of each adjudicator and the Scheme itself. It may help if I explain that we do not have a system of ‘precedent’ for our Schemes which means that each case is considered on a case by case basis and any decision does not influence future or similar cases. Just as e.g. in a court of law you could present the same case to a number of judges and they may reach a ‘reasonable’ but ultimately slightly different conclusion."

    To reiterate, we were on the same flight, EasyJet submitted the same evidence as defence and, having chatted with clairet202, we actually argued the same points in response to this. But this apparently does not matter, it's due to individual interpretations, albeit of exactly the same facts. On the phone to CEDAR earlier, they said my partner and I cannot make a new claim as we are on the same booking reference.

    I'd love for any help from the good ship MSE! This is surely unfair and, at the very least, future claimants via CEDR need to be made aware of this...
    • 111KAB
    • By 111KAB 21st Apr 17, 7:08 AM
    • 3,638 Posts
    • 1,478 Thanks
    111KAB
    gcdh - it appears that you may well have to go to court to resolve. Assuming you have read through various pages on MSE and, more importantly, read Vauban's Guide possibly the first decision is whether to go it alone (DIY) or use a solicitor (such as Bott & Co.) on a no win no fee (NWNF) basis.


    DIY returns are greater but with certain risks whereas NWNF will provide c. 70% of the amount due.


    If you DIY an important part of your claim will be a witness statement regarding payment made by EJ on YOUR SAME FLIGHT in respect of a 261/2004 claim. Ensure you can obtain this. You may wish to advise EJ you are obtaining this (they read this pages anyway) and that may prompt them to cough up.


    If you decide to NWNF then advise the solicitor that you have already gone through the CEDR procedure etc BUT you know of another party who will provide a statement to the effect that they were paid.


    Only my thoughts ... others may disagree but from experience if the matter does end up in court judges look unfavourably upon defendants (EJ) who have already admitted liability in respect of the flight in question.
    • firefox1956
    • By firefox1956 21st Apr 17, 8:58 AM
    • 1,344 Posts
    • 761 Thanks
    firefox1956
    Its thanks to the professionalism of the pilot that you only lost 24 hours of you trip & not the rest of your life !!!!!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 21st Apr 17, 9:28 AM
    • 3,273 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    JPears
    Close thread?
    Should be on EJ anyway
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • yelyahm91
    • By yelyahm91 24th Apr 17, 5:58 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    yelyahm91
    Hi everyone, I wonder if I could get some advice on how to respond to the defence Easyjet has submitted to my CEDR case? I was delayed overnight and rerouted to Bologna on a trip to Venice from Gatwick and Easyjet is saying that the inbound flight from Milan to Gatwick, due to be the plane to take us from Gatwick to Venice, was delayed by bad weather and ATC restrictions and therefore had to be cancelled. I understand ATC restrictions count as exceptional circumstances but as these restrictions caused a knock on effect and weren't actually imposed on my flight I'm not really sure where I stand.

    "Particulars of claim
    12. The aircraft which the Respondent originally assigned to operate the Flight was an Airbus A319 bearing registration number G-EZTR (the Aircraft).
    13. On the Flight Date, prior to the operation of the Flight, the Aircraft was also scheduled to
    operate flight EZY 5296 (the Outbound Flight) from Milan Malpensa Airport (MXP) to LGW.
    14. The Aircraft departed at 15:06 UTC on the Flight Date to operate the Outbound Flight, however, due to adverse weather conditions in the form of thunderstorms at LGW that would have prevented the Aircraft from arriving there safely and resultant ATC slot restrictions, the Aircraft was required to divert to London Southend Airport (SEN) [annex, pages 6 - 7].
    15. Owing to the continued adverse weather conditions at LGW, and the closure of air space in the London area as a result of the thunderstorms at LGW, the Respondent was unable to operate a positioning flight from SEN - LGW to operate the Flight.
    16. The Respondent reviewed the possibility of sourcing a replacement aircraft from LGW to
    operate the Flight, but owing to the earlier diversion to SEN, the crew scheduled to operate the Flight had reached their maximum hours of permissible continuous duty. At the material time, there was no replacement crew available at LGW to re-crew the flight on another aircraft. As a result the respondent was required to cancel the flight.
    17. The Defendant has no control over the weather, ATC or the decisions of ATC themselves.
    18. The Respondent offered all passengers the option of a full refund of the original ticket price or re-routing on the next available flight from LGW to VCE in accordance with their obligations under Article 8 of the Regulation.
    19. The cancellation of the Flight as a result of the adverse weather conditions was not within the actual control of the carrier and cannot possibly be anticipated.
    20. Accordingly, the Flight was cancelled due to extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken for the purposes of Article 5(3) of the Regulation.
    Reasonable Measures
    21. The cancellation could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken, within the meaning of Article 5(3).
    22. The Defendant will rely on the guidance provided by the CJEU to say that "all reasonable
    measures" means:
    "...measures appropriate to the situation, that is to say measures which, at the time those
    extraordinary circumstances arose, met, inter alia, conditions which were technically and
    economically viable for the air carrier concerned...That party must establish that, even if it had
    deployed all its resources in terms of staff or equipment and the financial means at its disposal, it would clearly not have been able - unless it had made intolerable sacrifices in the light of the capacities of its undertaking at the relevant time - to prevent the extraordinary circumstances with which it was confronted from leading to the cancellation of the flight". (Wallentin-Hermann (above) at §§ 40 and 43).
    23. The Defendant took all reasonable measures and/or employed all resources at its disposal to avoid the cancellation of the Flight including attempting to source a replacement aircraft and a replacement crew to operate the flight. There was no other reasonable and/or technically and/or economically viable option available to the Defendant that would have enabled it to operate the Flight."


    If you need any more information please let me know and thanks in advance for your help
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 25th Apr 17, 11:05 AM
    • 1,139 Posts
    • 551 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi yelyahm91,

    My thoughts on the problem and some possible points to raise with CEDR.

    Gatwick is EJ's largest base, by quite some margin, with something like 60 based aircraft and associated flight crew. Therefore, they should have standby or spare resources available to deal with this sort of problem. Whether there were many others on that day, which outstripped their resources is unknown and may be a possibility. This is unlikely however as this was not mentioned in their defence.

    The main point is that this was a knock on from a delay to a previous flight, your flight could not depart due to an earlier problem. This means the delay to your flight was not an extraordinary circumstance and does not let them off the compensation hook.

    Another area to scrutinise would be, did they do all that they could to prevent the cancelled flight? Given the size of their LGW base and the massive resources available to them, probably not. Did they attempt to put you on another flight, could they have got you there earlier?

    Without knowing the date, the weather conditions on that day, your flight details and how long ATC restrictions were in place, it's hard to say. Perhaps Google can help you here.

    Why did they re route you and still not get you to your destination? Were you left to make your own way from Bologna? Make this point to CEDR.

    Something which does not make any sense to me is that EJ state...

    "EZY 5296 (the Outbound Flight) from Milan Malpensa Airport (MXP) to LGW"

    This was diverted to SEN and EJ suggested that this was the prior flight to your own. However, if that was an outbound flight (from Milan) it follows that it should then return to Milan as the inbound flight and not become the aircraft to operate your flight. This could just be a typo or mistake on their behalf but it requires further investigation to be able to follow the reason given and the timeline.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
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