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    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 20th Sep 17, 8:22 AM
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    NoviceAngel
    Pcy - knock on from weather is not an EC, case law available I think, escapes me which case though......
    Originally posted by JPears

    https://www.flightdelays.co.uk/blog/2015/1388/another-win-at-court-for-flight-delays

    https://www.flightdelays.co.uk/blog/2015/1395/another-weather-court-victory-for-flight-delays

    These spring to mind (credit Vauban) for originally posting the links.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 22nd Sep 17, 7:01 PM
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    pcyuljr
    Guys you are overthinking this a little too much. As I posted above. Burst tyre, not EC. K2 took nearly 3 hours to get a replacement plane at one of their major hubs. (I had a RA flight in March from LBA, plane broke, they used one 2 stands down within an hour or so. And LBA is sparse for RA flights.)
    If you had departed on time, possibly no weather issues, but also J2 could have used the other runway even if weather was bad.
    Pcy - knock on from weather is not an EC, case law available I think, escapes me which case though.
    Keep it simple. You don't need anything else.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Hi JP, just to confirm then, a 'knock on' isn't only for the next/following flight? A 'knock on' can be classed as an issue within the same initially delayed flight - ie my flight departure was delayed 2hrs 50mins by the burst tyre, but the arrival was delayed another 16hrs by the weather factor later in the flight? I thought knock-ons were only for later flights - showing I still have a lot to read!
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 22nd Sep 17, 7:06 PM
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    pcyuljr
    I recall reading about that very same argument being put before a judge in a previous similar case. ie. most of the delay was none EC related but the last few minutes were.

    The verdict was in the claimants favour, not sure where it was but I'll try to find it.
    Originally posted by Tyzap
    Thanks Tyzap, that would be very useful. I'm seeing a lot of caselaw around what constitutes an EC delay and also weather delays on knock on flights - however I've not seen much around technical delays under 3 hrs which then become larger delays due to weather. It kind of combines two separate issues.

    I'm happy I'll be on a winner with the tyre not being an EC - just need to ensure J2 can't hang their hat on the weather aspect, which their current refusal to pay suggests they are doing.
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 22nd Sep 17, 7:18 PM
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    pcyuljr
    Hi Novice, thanks for the links. From reading them though, it appears they relate to delays on separate, following flights - the 'knock on' effect.

    My weather delay was my for my actual flight - but it only became an issue due to an initial 2hr 50mins tyre burst delay.

    Does this make sense? Or am I reading the documents incorrectly?
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 22nd Sep 17, 7:47 PM
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    Vauban
    I have seen no binding case law that relates to this, and only a few cases where the delay was caused by a mix of extraordinary and non extraordinary factors (including causation - such as an initial delay causing the plane to be caught up in something else). To be honest, you're in the lap of the DJs with this one - and I suspect these sorts of cases can go either way.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 22nd Sep 17, 8:11 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    ........

    My weather delay was my for my actual flight.....
    Originally posted by pcyuljr
    Apologies I misunderstood your earlier posts. It's always difficult to apportion blame for the delay on differing elements, like Vauban has said.

    I think you need to be cautious about taking this one on, so I'll go back to what I said and consider NWNF, I say consider because you have quickly grasped an understanding of what's involved and stand a good chance on your own.

    Without going back to read all your posts, just to play devils advocate if in your own words the burst tyre resulted in a 2h 50 min delay (less than 3h), then I guess weather caused the remainder of the delay. If your relying on the fact that if you had of set off on time, the EC part of the delay wouldn't have played a part in your total delay, then that is very sketchy.....

    I think that's what Vauban said but he says it posher lol
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; 22-09-2017 at 8:15 PM.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 22nd Sep 17, 10:00 PM
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    Tyzap
    Sorry pcyuljr but I cannot find the post that I recall reading, it may have been from within this flight delay forum.

    However, and as Vauban says, it was not a precedent setting case, but would probably be regarded as persuasive, and therefore supportive of your case.

    What it does prove tho is that you do have a winnable claim if put before the right dj, particularly as the vast majority of your delay was caused by a none EC event.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 23rd Sep 17, 10:45 AM
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    pcyuljr
    If your relying on the fact that if you had of set off on time, the EC part of the delay wouldn't have played a part in your total delay, then that is very sketchy.....
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    Yep, I agree it is quite sketchy. That's the bit that makes it exciting!

    Hopefully Jet2 and I will agree that 2hrs 50mins of the delay was technical (the tyre).

    The total delay ended up being over 19hrs, but the fact is it only has to be 3hrs for the compensation purposes.

    Which means we'll actually be arguing over that 10mins between the tyre delay ending and the weather delay starting.

    Now I guess the important thing here is was the weather delay an EC. We did attempt to land, but the pilot wasn't able to.

    I'm considering trying to determine if other aircraft did land after the time we attempted to. If others did, then I think I'd be in a good place to argue that it was a limitation of Jet2 that we didn't land, as opposed to an EC. What do you reckon?

    I don't mean to sound preachy with my posts, which I'm aware they sometimes come across like, I'm just firing out my thought processes and seeing what sticks!
    Last edited by pcyuljr; 23-09-2017 at 10:46 AM. Reason: text
    • Chippy42
    • By Chippy42 28th Sep 17, 3:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Chippy42
    Just a quick update....we received our cheque from Jet2 today for the delay on our flight from MAN-LCA in August. Done and dusted in 28 days and surprisingly stress free. Thanks to everyone for the invaluable help on this forum!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 28th Sep 17, 4:07 PM
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    JPears
    Well done. This would not have happened several years ago.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 28th Sep 17, 4:21 PM
    • 1,181 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Just a quick update....we received our cheque from Jet2 today for the delay on our flight from MAN-LCA in August. Done and dusted in 28 days and surprisingly stress free. Thanks to everyone for the invaluable help on this forum!
    Originally posted by Chippy42
    Great result

    I don't think this was a defendable claim, too clear cut.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 28th Sep 17, 5:32 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    Just a quick update....we received our cheque from Jet2 today for the delay on our flight from MAN-LCA in August. Done and dusted in 28 days and surprisingly stress free. Thanks to everyone for the invaluable help on this forum!
    Originally posted by Chippy42
    Thanks for letting us know the outcome

    A fair and justified outcome well done on your success

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 3rd Oct 17, 3:34 PM
    • 105 Posts
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    pcyuljr
    Today I received a response to my MCOL from a legal company called Norton Rose Fulbright who are representing JET2.

    A good start from them as they state the correspondence is regarding Pcyuljr v British Airways Plc I hope their attention to detail continues throughout the process.

    They asked for my e-mail also for correspondence - hopefully to make a settlement offer! Fingers crossed...
    Last edited by pcyuljr; 03-10-2017 at 3:35 PM. Reason: Bold
    • JPears
    • By JPears 3rd Oct 17, 4:25 PM
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    JPears
    No detailed defence sent yet?
    I wonder what happened to Les Deux Oiseaux?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 3rd Oct 17, 4:32 PM
    • 105 Posts
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    pcyuljr
    Nope, no detailed defence as of yet.

    As they asked for my e-mail address, I'm assuming they will want some direct contact, as opposed to it all through the court as I expected.

    Maybe they will send the defence to me.

    Les Deux Oiseaux? Is that a username?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 3rd Oct 17, 5:29 PM
    • 3,338 Posts
    • 926 Thanks
    JPears
    2 Birds was the original legal firm used by Jet2 back in the day.
    Maybe they got binned off after losing an appeal (and probably lots of Jet2s money) at the CoA and SC?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Hryder
    • By Hryder 3rd Oct 17, 10:10 PM
    • 1 Posts
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    Hryder
    I was on the skg flight from man on 17 June, I have been reading a lot of comments on here re this flight, however what I don't understand is why this plane could not land, but there were numerous other flights that landed just before and after we tried to land, I'm talking minutes here. Can anyone explain it to me please?
    • Bexybexbex
    • By Bexybexbex 4th Oct 17, 9:11 PM
    • 16 Posts
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    Bexybexbex
    I'm on my 3rd letter to Jet2 so far my claim has been rejected. Where is Vaugban's guide?
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 4th Oct 17, 9:24 PM
    • 1,181 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    Tyzap
    I'm on my 3rd letter to Jet2 so far my claim has been rejected. Where is Vaugban's guide?
    Originally posted by Bexybexbex
    Don't play letter ping pong with them, they will be happy to do that until you run out of time to claim.

    Google and then download 'Vaubans guide'

    Give us more details if you need help.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 7th Oct 17, 9:19 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    pcyuljr
    I was on the skg flight from man on 17 June, I have been reading a lot of comments on here re this flight, however what I don't understand is why this plane could not land, but there were numerous other flights that landed just before and after we tried to land, I'm talking minutes here. Can anyone explain it to me please?
    Originally posted by Hryder
    HI, that's useful information. My intention for my court proceedings is to show that other planes did land after our flight was diverted (after the aborted landing attempt). Thus showing that neither the tyre or weather would constitute extraordinary circumstances.

    However, I'm struggling to prove flights did land after ours, merely as I can't seem to find that data. Where did you manage to get it from?
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