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    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 16th Sep 17, 12:51 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    pcyuljr
    Thanks for the advice. I've issued the NBA over two weeks ago and had no response. I was just about to pay the MCOL fee when I saw the above dispute process. Based on your advice, I'll crack on with paying the fee and starting the court proceedings.

    I know the CAA are seen as lame ducks, but them believing my claim is fair has given me a lot of confidence as to success in a court room.

    I'd be surprised if a judge rules against the experts in the field.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 16th Sep 17, 2:17 PM
    • 4,705 Posts
    • 2,085 Thanks
    Vauban
    Thanks for the advice. I've issued the NBA over two weeks ago and had no response. I was just about to pay the MCOL fee when I saw the above dispute process. Based on your advice, I'll crack on with paying the fee and starting the court proceedings.

    I know the CAA are seen as lame ducks, but them believing my claim is fair has given me a lot of confidence as to success in a court room.

    I'd be surprised if a judge rules against the experts in the field.
    Originally posted by pcyuljr
    I don't believe the judge will rule in your favour ...

    Because I don't believe this will ever go to court. The airline will make you an offer before it does. I bet their first offer will be less than your entitlement - so feel confident to hold the line for what's rightfully yours!

    Good luck.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 16th Sep 17, 2:26 PM
    • 1,888 Posts
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    NoviceAngel
    I don't believe the judge will rule in your favour ...
    Originally posted by Vauban
    Blimey you had me and I bet pcyuljr worried then

    I'm surprised J2 didn't cave in when the NBA was issued, and pcy don't forget to add any court costs to any settlement amount offered.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 16th Sep 17, 5:22 PM
    • 3,504 Posts
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    mattyprice4004
    I've not been delayed with Jet2 (yet, I fly with them a lot!) but it's a bit disheartening to see them playing silly sods with what are genuine claims.
    I find the booking process and their operations at Manchester pretty slick, so I'm saddened they play so 'hard to get' with claims under EU261.

    Sorry for going off topic.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 16th Sep 17, 5:47 PM
    • 1,888 Posts
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    NoviceAngel
    ..........I'm saddened they play so 'hard to get' with claims under EU261.
    Originally posted by mattyprice4004
    Yeah there are famous for being one of the worst, if you follow the last link in my signature, you'll find they have been voted the worst!
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 16th Sep 17, 6:02 PM
    • 3,504 Posts
    • 2,928 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    Yeah there are famous for being one of the worst, if you follow the last link in my signature, you'll find they have been voted the worst!
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    I'll have a read of that - thank you.
    It's a shame, I quite like them. But I really don't want to be messed around for months on end if I do need to claim under EU261.
    • pcyuljr
    • By pcyuljr 17th Sep 17, 10:37 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    pcyuljr
    Blimey you had me and I bet pcyuljr worried then

    I'm surprised J2 didn't cave in when the NBA was issued, and pcy don't forget to add any court costs to any settlement amount offered.
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    He did have me worried! Haha.

    The more I read Vaubans guide, the more I'm impressed with it. I've seen criminal Crown Court cases with less supporting documents.

    Just out of interest Vauban, at what stage did Monarch pay you? I can't see it on the documents. I assume a judge ruled in your favour post hearing? The prep put into your case makes me wonder how on earth they expected to win?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 17th Sep 17, 12:42 PM
    • 3,255 Posts
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    JPears
    They expected to win because airlines were, still are, arrogant, think they are above the law and can do what they want. Despite airlines using expensive legal teams and barristers, they lose and continue to do so, against the average man in the street.
    Vauban also has a nice hat.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 17th Sep 17, 2:07 PM
    • 4,705 Posts
    • 2,085 Thanks
    Vauban
    He did have me worried! Haha.

    The more I read Vaubans guide, the more I'm impressed with it. I've seen criminal Crown Court cases with less supporting documents.

    Just out of interest Vauban, at what stage did Monarch pay you? I can't see it on the documents. I assume a judge ruled in your favour post hearing? The prep put into your case makes me wonder how on earth they expected to win?
    Originally posted by pcyuljr
    Well you are very kind. I am not a lawyer, and knew nothing about any of this before my own flight delay - and Monarch Airline's contemptuous response - saw me find this forum. And I did a lot of reading (helped very much by one poster, Centipede - no longer here - who had really excellent insights).

    My own fight with Monarch went on for ages - and required three hearings in the end! You can read my account of it here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=64739995&highlight=victory#post64 739995

    I don't think anyone would ever need to do this again. The law is now much less ambiguous, following the Ron Huzar's splendid win with Bott. But the law was also clear enough already, really, though District Judges often seemed confused by it all.

    The behaviour of Monarch was quite astonishing. Their witnesses presented statements to the court that they couldn't and wouldn't defend, and they were basically hopeless in every respect once properly questioned. Monarch should of course settled, but instead spent a small fortune on London barristers to try and win the case.

    And in the end, having been cornered into disclosing documents that would show their defence lacked any merit, they simply walked away. Read the judgement from the Court - it's comedy gold. Utter incompetence. I would like to say that they have improved since then, but I've seen no evidence of it.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 18th Sep 17, 11:46 PM
    • 3,255 Posts
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    JPears
    bumped to tidy board
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    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 19th Sep 17, 12:47 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    PomBear
    Hello.

    I'm new to MSE but have been lurking on this forum for some time. Two posters suffered significant delay on the Jet2 flight from Manchester to Thessaloniki on 17th June 2017.

    I was booked on the reciprocal flight, LS904 (9.30pm) Thessaloniki to Manchester. And we were delayed by more than 19 hours too. Very unpleasant delay as we were travelling with two four-year olds.

    Using a template, I made my initial claim to Jet2, which, unsurprisingly, has been rejected.

    They state: "On investigation, the reason the delay to your flight exceeded three hours was due to adverse weather conditions. The preceding flight departed Manchester with a delay of less than three hours and it was therefore expected to arrive at Thessaloniki with a similar arrival delay. However, strong tailwinds were experienced, preventing the safe landing at Thessalonkik; therefore the aircraft was required to divert in the interest of passenger and crew safety." There is no mention of the reason for the delay (the damaged tyre), and the fact they had changed the aircraft in Manchester.

    Following some detective work, I think they could have well foreseen the problems they would face landing at Thessaloniki. If this is the case, are the circumstances really extraordinary?

    I recorded the Captain's announcement explaining the reason for the delay when we got on the plane. He stated (this is a transcription): "Unfortunately the runway which was favouring the winds, runway three-four at Thessaloniki, we are not allowed to use at night.

    "So the wind was quite strong last night and we weren't able to use the reciprocal end of the runway, which is runway one-six. So unfortunately we did come down and have a look and we did try and approach and we hung around for about 45 minutes, 50 minutes. I'm afraid the wind just didn't come within limits. So I'm afraid we went on to Athens."

    According to a website I found called Pilots Briefing Room, between 'June and August [Thessaloniki] often has strong winds necessitating the use of runway 34'. But 'Night landings [are only] permitted provided PAPIS (precision approach path indicators) are available and EGPWS (enhanced ground proximity warning system) is serviceable'. Apparently this is because of high terrain on approach.

    So they would have been fully aware, before they took off from Manchester, that they may need to use runway three-four to get the plane down. Whilst the pilot didn't state why they weren't allowed to use runway 34 (could this have been an ATC restriction?), they must have known that a night approach to runway 34 could be problematic.

    Maybe it's the cynic in me, and perhaps I am over-thinking this and rambling, but I wonder if they knew the likely outcome before they took off from Manchester? A better scenario (although still not great) might have been to accommodate outgoing passengers at Manchester, flying them to Thessaloniki first thing next morning, and accommodating those of us in Thessaloniki earlier rather than at 2am. At least this would have reduced the 19 hour delay by a few hours and been less unpleasant. However, if they had done that, they would have had to pay compensation. I suppose they thought attempting to get it to the destination may pay off. And if they couldn't land it, they could always blame the weather as an extraordinary circumstance...

    I plan to issue an NBA now. Perhaps I am wrong in how I am looking at this, but had they left Manchester on time, they'd have been able to land at Thessaloniki as use of runway 34 wouldn't have been restricted.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 19th Sep 17, 12:58 PM
    • 3,255 Posts
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    JPears
    So was the flight out from Manchester delayed in reaching you ie was the departure delayed at all? Or was all the delay because of the need to divert due to weather/winds at the airport?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 19th Sep 17, 1:42 PM
    • 1,888 Posts
    • 573 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Hi PomBear,

    From what I can understand, your delay was caused by weather, but importantly delayed due to delay on the previous flight, so a knock on effect occurred, knock on weather delays have always been a hot topic on here, I'll link in a post if I can find it....

    EDIT :- Here we go .... read Vaubans post under mine ...

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69967156&highlight=weather+mark2s park#post69967156

    By all means issue the NBA but I would advise popping your flight into a flight delay checker - such as Botts and make sure they think you have a valid claim before you go it alone, this could be a sticky one to win and I'd even consider going NWNF on this occasion.

    That said, we'll give you all our collective knowledge and support if you decide to take J2 on.

    Good luck,

    NoviceAngel
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; 19-09-2017 at 1:49 PM.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • JPears
    • By JPears 19th Sep 17, 2:00 PM
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    JPears
    Bottonline says you are due Euro400 each.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • richardw
    • By richardw 19th Sep 17, 2:41 PM
    • 18,290 Posts
    • 7,565 Thanks
    richardw
    ...I did a lot of reading (helped very much by one poster, Centipede - no longer here - who had really excellent insights)....
    Originally posted by Vauban
    They also posted as Cityboy here and elsewhere, we have to thank BA for cancelling Centipede/Cityboy's flight from Tampa and the consequential valuable knowledge sharing.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 19th Sep 17, 2:45 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    PomBear
    Thank you for speedy replies.

    Yes, the flight out from Manchester was delayed by 2hours and 50 minutes. There are two posters up thread who are in the process of claiming for this flight. The flight out was delayed (as I understand it from this thread) due to a burst tyre on taxiing. The aircraft was then changed.

    It then flew to Thessaloniki, but due to the delay, could no longer land on the preferred runway because they were 'not allowed to use it at night'. The remaining runway didn't have favourable winds (although this is usual at this airport). The plane diverted to Athens.

    So, because the preceding flight was first delayed (due to burst tyre) and then diverted (due to wind), our return flight from SKG to MAN was also severely delayed.

    The delay was really long. Whilst the flight to SKG diverted at 22.54 to land in Athens at approx 23.30, it didn't take off from Athens until 15.00 the following day! It landed at SKG at 15.40. Our flight then took off from SKG at 16.59, 19.5 hours behind schedule. I have no idea why it took them so long to get the diverted plane from Athens to SKG the following day. I can only surmise the crew had gone over their hours. We landed at MAN at 16.14, 19 hours behind schedule.

    Had been thinking I would use a NWNF, but having read Vauben's guide, thought I could issue the NBA myself and then follow through with someone like Bott & co if necessary. Had also checked on Bottonline before I sent my original complaint, and like above, it did suggest that I would be eligible.

    Do I need to appeal via the CAA first?

    Weather was not affecting departures.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 19th Sep 17, 2:53 PM
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    JPears
    CAA about as useful as chocolate fireguard.
    DIY as almost certainly NOT an EC due to knock on AND previous delay from tech.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 19th Sep 17, 2:58 PM
    • 1,888 Posts
    • 573 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    They also posted as Cityboy here and elsewhere, we have to thank BA for cancelling Centipede/Cityboy's flight from Tampa and the consequential valuable knowledge sharing.
    Originally posted by richardw

    Hmmm, memories of the earlier years....

    It was a real shame that centipedes posts got culled, I'm sure he did quite well, just a shame that he might have had to agree to his posts being removed.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 19th Sep 17, 3:01 PM
    • 1,888 Posts
    • 573 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    CAA about as useful as chocolate fireguard.
    DIY as almost certainly NOT an EC due to knock on AND previous delay from tech.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Yeah I would agree, I thought the previous knock on was due entirely to weather, a burst tyre should be easier to prove, odd how J2 blame the weather on the flight concerned and make no mention of the knock on delay.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • JPears
    • By JPears 19th Sep 17, 3:08 PM
    • 3,255 Posts
    • 910 Thanks
    JPears
    Yeah I would agree, I thought the previous knock on was due entirely to weather, a burst tyre should be easier to prove, odd how J2 blame the weather on the flight concerned and make no mention of the knock on delay.
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    Sarcasm has no place here....
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    The alleged Ringleader.........
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