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    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 26th Jun 17, 2:58 PM
    • 4,712 Posts
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    Vauban
    Of course, I only paid one fare since I only took one flight. My fare covered the second (delayed) flight. In the end I didn't pay for the first (cancelled) flight since the product I paid for couldn't be provided and that's why I was compensated. The product I DID pay for was then delayed which entitled me to compensation again. That seems fairly obvious to me (and evidently to BA as well).

    I don't know if a case can be made against "double-dipping" compensation but I am certain that it cannot be made on the grounds that I didn't pay for the second flight since that is clearly not the case.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    You paid for the first flight; the service wasn't provided as described and so you were put onto a second flight without charge and also compensated. I don't see how that can reasonably be contested.

    The fact that you got compensated a second time - double dipping as you describe it - makes you very lucky, rather than axiomatically entitled.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 26th Jun 17, 3:09 PM
    • 2,776 Posts
    • 1,843 Thanks
    jpsartre
    You paid for the first flight; the service wasn't provided as described and so you were put onto a second flight without charge and also compensated. I don't see how that can reasonably be contested.
    Originally posted by Vauban
    I'm not contesting it and as you say, there was no charge for being rebooked. But it does not follow from this that my rebooked flight was a free flight no more than it follow that you get a free sofa if Ikea cannot deliver what you paid for and offer you a replacement. The flight I ended up using was not free in any sense of the word, it was paid for with the money I had originally paid for the flight that ended up cancelled.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Jun 17, 3:16 PM
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    JPears
    I can see both sides of the argument here in principal. But I think jps has been lucky that BA have possibly slipped up or not looked hard enough at the regulations.
    Of course if you had obtained a refund due to the cancellation and then purchased a second ticket with a delayed flight there would be no arguement at all.
    Compensation x 2.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 26th Jun 17, 3:29 PM
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    jpsartre
    But I think jps has been lucky that BA have possibly slipped up or not looked hard enough at the regulations.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Perhaps although there's at least one other example I could find of passenger being compensated twice following a cancellation + delay. See post 12 in this Flyertalk thread:

    https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1809971-cancelled-flight-2nd-flight-delayed-eu-261-compensation-twice-not.html

    Interestingly, one of the posters sum up exactly my reaction to Vauban's argument about the second flight being free:

    "The passenger is not travelling free of charge since the passenger has paid for a ticket and has been rebooked onto that flight

    If the airline gave a full refund to passenger for flight 1 when rebooking to flight 2, then indeed would be travelling on a free ticket"
    • hertslady64
    • By hertslady64 26th Jun 17, 7:50 PM
    • 49 Posts
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    hertslady64
    So sounds like its at least worth me emailing to see if they are willing to pay compensation for the second flight. We did actually buy another ticket as BA didn't communicate with us. We ended up with 2 seats on the same plane!! They refunded the one we bought though.
    • jubileee
    • By jubileee 27th Jun 17, 4:54 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    jubileee
    Looking for some advice please if anyone can help?

    Subject to a 29 hour delay for mechanical faults (x3). I won't have a claim via EU regs for 2 of the 3 delays but wonder if I might for the 3rd

    Flight 1 - operated by American Airlines (BA codeshare) and flying out of USA. Delayed by 15 hours due to a mechanical issue (can't claim under EU due to flying from USA and the flight being operated by a non-EU airline)

    Flight 2 - replacement for above but was deemed unfit to fly before boarding (can't claim for same reasons as above)

    Flight 3 - a re-route from flights 1 and 2 but this time operated by BA (BA216 22/6). On arrival at airport, advised subject to a delay for mechanical reasons. As we were already massively delayed, we were re-routed again, eventually arriving home 29 hours later than expected.

    However, if BA216 had not been delayed, the delay would have only been 24 and a half hours....the delay of the BA flight delayed us by an additional 4 and a half hours

    BUT....looking at arguments above, this wasn't a flight I paid for but a replacement/reroute for the AA so presume that makes a difference (plus of course I didn't actually get on it)

    Any views appreciated
    • JPears
    • By JPears 27th Jun 17, 5:13 PM
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    JPears
    So you actually took the BA flight?
    And it arrived 4.5 hours late from scheduled arrival?
    Then you sir/lady are almost certainly due compensation.
    You paid for your flight via your first flight delayed on AA.
    It was fortuitous for you you got a BA flight to qualify for compensation
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • jubileee
    • By jubileee 27th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 62 Posts
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    jubileee
    So you actually took the BA flight?
    And it arrived 4.5 hours late from scheduled arrival?
    Then you sir/lady are almost certainly due compensation.
    You paid for your flight via your first flight delayed on AA.
    It was fortuitous for you you got a BA flight to qualify for compensation
    Originally posted by JPears
    I didn't unfortunately, I was booked on it but the delay was expected to be 32 hours when we arrived at the desk so we were further re-routed.

    If the BA flight had operated on time, we'd have got to final destination at 10.20. However, because we ended up being re-routed again, we got home at 14.50

    I didn't think I'd be able to claim anything but optimistically hoped that because there was a BA flight in there, I might have had some basis..ah well, never mind
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 27th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    • 1,014 Posts
    • 425 Thanks
    Justice13075
    So who did you actually fly back with?
    • jubileee
    • By jubileee 27th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    jubileee
    So who did you actually fly back with?
    Originally posted by Justice13075
    American Airlines to Heathrow then BA from Heathrow to Newcastle
    Last edited by jubileee; 27-06-2017 at 5:57 PM.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 27th Jun 17, 7:12 PM
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    Vauban
    I'm afraid your post is too confusing for me to follow, jubileee, as I can't tell whether any of the flights you took were actually delayed. But I don't think it matters necessarily.

    I would argue that you were never covered by the regulation. This is because the flight you bought didn't qualify for 261/04 protection, and so therefore neither would any subsequent rerouted flight (because you never had a paid for ticket with them or had a contract with them for that matter).

    I would justify this interpretation by reference to the original regulation that makes clear that if you are rerouted and the rerouted plane gets you to your destination more than 2 hours late, the liability for compensation sits with the original operating airline, not the subsequent airline you actually flew with. Since the original airline never came under the regulation, no compensation is due - even if you flew on a European carrier that turned out to be late.
    Last edited by Vauban; 27-06-2017 at 7:19 PM.
    • jubileee
    • By jubileee 27th Jun 17, 8:54 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    jubileee
    I'm afraid your post is too confusing for me to follow, jubileee, as I can't tell whether any of the flights you took were actually delayed. But I don't think it matters necessarily.

    I would argue that you were never covered by the regulation. This is because the flight you bought didn't qualify for 261/04 protection, and so therefore neither would any subsequent rerouted flight (because you never had a paid for ticket with them or had a contract with them for that matter).

    I would justify this interpretation by reference to the original regulation that makes clear that if you are rerouted and the rerouted plane gets you to your destination more than 2 hours late, the liability for compensation sits with the original operating airline, not the subsequent airline you actually flew with. Since the original airline never came under the regulation, no compensation is due - even if you flew on a European carrier that turned out to be late.
    Originally posted by Vauban
    Sorry, it was very confusing. The original flight (AA operated) that caused the issue and knock-on effect was actually cancelled. We were then re-routed and given tickets for a BA flight. That flight was delayed for over 30 hours but the length of the delay was known at the desk so we were given the option to re-route rather than wait. We opted for re-routing and all other flights taken were on time although we arrived at our final destination 29 hours late.

    It's annoying that we have no basis for a claim as our flight numbers all indicated we were on BA flights (flight numbers all started with the letters BA). I was unaware that we were on AA operated flights until the issues occurred

    Thanks for your help
    • JPears
    • By JPears 27th Jun 17, 11:10 PM
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    JPears
    Im still none the wiser, so retract my earlier statement....
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Antperson
    • By Antperson 28th Jun 17, 12:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Antperson
    Does anyone know how the distance calculation for compensation works for Transit passengers. I was on a BA flight from North AMerica to Glasgow with a transfer in London. Caught up in BA flight chaos at Heathrow and they are only offering me compensation based on London to Glasgow distance. I think there is an argument that my flight ticket was from Montreal to Glasgow and therefor compensation should be for that distance but I cannot find any advice for transit passengers.

    On another note they have not even offered enough in expenses to cover my next day train fare home, overnight accomodation in London and very modest meal costs.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 28th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1,173 Posts
    • 562 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Does anyone know how the distance calculation for compensation works for Transit passengers. I was on a BA flight from North AMerica to Glasgow with a transfer in London. Caught up in BA flight chaos at Heathrow and they are only offering me compensation based on London to Glasgow distance. I think there is an argument that my flight ticket was from Montreal to Glasgow and therefor compensation should be for that distance but I cannot find any advice for transit passengers.

    On another note they have not even offered enough in expenses to cover my next day train fare home, overnight accomodation in London and very modest meal costs.
    Originally posted by Antperson
    Hi Antperson,

    If you were travelling on a through ticket, and not two or more separate tickets, the distance is calculated from the starting point through to your final destination. You can check that distance using the web site GreatCircle Mapper.

    What BA are telling you is not correct, the regs are clear on this and there is some case law too. You are due 600 euros per pax.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 28th Jun 17, 1:11 PM
    • 3,334 Posts
    • 925 Thanks
    JPears
    Does anyone know how the distance calculation for compensation works for Transit passengers. I was on a BA flight from North AMerica to Glasgow with a transfer in London. Caught up in BA flight chaos at Heathrow and they are only offering me compensation based on London to Glasgow distance. I think there is an argument that my flight ticket was from Montreal to Glasgow and therefor compensation should be for that distance but I cannot find any advice for transit passengers.

    On another note they have not even offered enough in expenses to cover my next day train fare home, overnight accomodation in London and very modest meal costs.
    Originally posted by Antperson
    So did you get train home from Heathrow rather than a delayed flight, or was no replacement flight offered? They should reimburse you all costs, and a refund on your unused part of the flight. They should have found you a hotel.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Antperson
    • By Antperson 28th Jun 17, 10:34 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Antperson
    Hi Antperson,

    If you were travelling on a through ticket, and not two or more separate tickets, the distance is calculated from the starting point through to your final destination. You can check that distance using the web site GreatCircle Mapper.

    What BA are telling you is not correct, the regs are clear on this and there is some case law too. You are due 600 euros per pax.

    Good luck.
    Originally posted by Tyzap
    Thanks this is really helpful, if you know where I can find some authority for this that I can quote to BA that would be fantastic.
    • Antperson
    • By Antperson 28th Jun 17, 10:36 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Antperson
    So did you get train home from Heathrow rather than a delayed flight, or was no replacement flight offered? They should reimburse you all costs, and a refund on your unused part of the flight. They should have found you a hotel.
    Originally posted by JPears

    It was the ICT chaos in May so they didn't help anyone with hotels and couldn't rebook me. I feel strongly they should pay for the hotel and train fare at least.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 28th Jun 17, 11:12 PM
    • 4,712 Posts
    • 2,087 Thanks
    Vauban
    Thanks this is really helpful, if you know where I can find some authority for this that I can quote to BA that would be fantastic.
    Originally posted by Antperson
    The Regulation itself - and the Folkerts judgement.

    It was the ICT chaos in May so they didn't help anyone with hotels and couldn't rebook me. I feel strongly they should pay for the hotel and train fare at least.
    Originally posted by Antperson
    Hotel and meals should be reimbursed. Consequential losses, like onward transport, isn't - but the general compensation might cover. And you can always ask - including CEDR (who are used by BA as ADR providers).
    • Antperson
    • By Antperson 29th Jun 17, 7:04 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Antperson
    Thanks for the help everyone, will get back on to them. Difficulty I have is they offered a figure that doesn't meet my hotel, modest food and transport costs but I can't work out what bits have been turned down.
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