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    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 2nd Jun 17, 9:37 PM
    • 854 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi, i was wondering if someone could help with a little advice? Like many others, me and my family were caught up in the BA fiasco last weekend. I understand the process re cancellation and comphensation based upon previous posts and that consequential loss my not be covered, however would this still be the same where the hotel and hire car was also booked via BA? Obviously as we booked via BA they would be deemed to be aware of the potential loss as a direct result of the breach. Does this not stand us in a better position to claim for car hire and post travel hotel costs? Basically id be looking to recover the cost for the hotel prior to the night of travel (drove from Manchester to Heathrow the night before) as the hotel was only booked conditional upon the flight, while the car hire was only arranged on the basis that we reached our destination. Given the inability to contact BA to rearrange flights we abandoned our holiday and drove home to Manchester...it also didnt help that one of our cases disappeared for 5 days ! Even to this day, we have still been unable to contact BA. The only call was from a courier to ask where we wanted my daughter's case delivered.
    Originally posted by Sim311
    Hi Sim311,

    It appears that at some time today BA changed their stance on compensation and costs etc.

    Some claimants have been getting their claims accepted immediately, without the need to produce receipts etc with bank details being taken and a promise that payment would be in the bank within 5 or 6 days.

    I would initially persevere and try to contact them by phone. It may be the quickest and easiest way to get your claim resolved.

    If that fails please come back here.

    Good luck and please let us know how you get on.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide.
    • 111KAB
    • By 111KAB 5th Jun 17, 1:10 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,471 Thanks
    111KAB
    Which view re BA compensation >


    http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2027404&c=setreg&region=2
    • Sylvia Mahal
    • By Sylvia Mahal 5th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Sylvia Mahal
    British Airways trying to get out of paying what they owe.
    Hi. I was travelling with a party of 9, 6 Adults and 3 small children. made up of my family, grandchildren and foster child. This was the children's first ever flight and holiday abroad.

    We checked into our flight at Heathrow Terminal 5 to Almeria via Madrid at 11.35 on May 27th at about 9,30 after joining a long queue at 8.30. On check in there was no mention of any concerns. We were then on Air side without any information except the boards stating that the gate number would be at a set time, this time kept moving into the future. The time of our flight passed and several hours later the board said Please wait. At about 6pm a piece of paper was given out to say all flights had been cancelled and we were advised to leave the terminal without our luggage with no advice other than to consult the website to rebook our flights or arrange for a refund. We eventually managed to get out having joined a very long queue as they only had one gate open at about 7.30pm

    We took the option to go home rather than book in a hotel because we only live 2 hours from Heathrow.

    As soon as we arrived home we tried to phone BA and to access the Website which was still not working properly. We tried all day Sunday and eventually decided to book with Iberia the same flights as offered by British Airways at an inflated price, but at least we were able to confirm that we could fly in Tuesday 30th May.

    Only four of our party were able to afford to pay for the additional flights so my grandchildren missed out on their holiday and my son decided they had to abort it.

    The problem I have is that BA have refunded the cost of the flights for the people who aborted their holiday but they refuse to compensate us for the cost of the flights we purchased from Iberia. They are only offering to refund the cost of our Saturday flights which is half the cost of the additional flights. Therefor we will be out of pocket.

    Please can someone advise where we stand. The flight we took on Tuesday 30th was actually a British Airways plane so I think they are just being difficult.

    They also refuse to compensate us for the journey back home, because they say we should have obtained a petrol receipt.

    Added to this we are still trying to get some of our luggage back.

    Please help and can you advise us what we are entitled to.

    Thanks

    Sylvia
    • JPears
    • By JPears 5th Jun 17, 3:42 PM
    • 2,886 Posts
    • 813 Thanks
    JPears
    See my reply below your original post oin the other general thread.
    Put kettle on, plate of buicuits and fully digest Vauban's guide. Any further questions, come back and ask.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Racer 92
    • By Racer 92 5th Jun 17, 10:26 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Racer 92
    flight cancellation
    Hi there,


    I would really appreciate some advice, our flight was cancelled over the bank holiday weekend there is myself, wife and 2 children (3 years & 10 months). I wanted to know what I can claim from BA and if I can also make a claim from my travel insurance.
    I managed to reschedule our flights with BA after hours of trying to get through but it was 3 days later! am I right in thinking there is additional compensation for this?
    Any help would be really appreciated


    Many thanks


    Alan
    • JPears
    • By JPears 5th Jun 17, 10:31 PM
    • 2,886 Posts
    • 813 Thanks
    JPears
    Download Vauban's guide (google) get a brew and settle in for a read. All your questions should be answered there.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Gulpiyuri
    • By Gulpiyuri 8th Jun 17, 6:57 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gulpiyuri
    BA refuses compensation for cancelled flight on 27 May IT outage
    Hi there,

    I am one of may affected by the British Airways / BA cancellations on Sat 27 May. I was relocated to another flight two days later and I followed their procedure to submit my claim for cancellation compensation through their website.

    Surprise, surprise… I got today the attached screenshot as an answer where they refuse my claim…

    …I'd like to inform you that your claim’s been refused because BAXXXX on 27 May was cancelled because of operational circumstances outside of our control. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation. I'm sorry to disappoint you…

    I am really shocked with this and the rest of the attached email. Is this agent aware that British Airways have publicly described the issue as a "technical problem" and not a cyber attack, therefore the airline is responsible for compensation under EU regulation 261/2004? How come the rest of the thousands of passengers affected are getting their compensations?

    Obviously this agent doesn´t seem to be of help, so I called BA support line for flight refunds but all the calls are terminated after a recorded message stating that their operators are busy, thus try later (same) or go to the website.

    Please could you advise? Also, anyone else in the same situation?

    Thanks

    Last edited by Gulpiyuri; 08-06-2017 at 6:58 PM. Reason: Image not showing / link attached
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 8th Jun 17, 7:04 PM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 6,931 Thanks
    Caz3121
    did you submit from here?https://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=5780 sounds like the response is an error
    • Gulpiyuri
    • By Gulpiyuri 8th Jun 17, 7:05 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gulpiyuri
    did you submit from here?https://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=5780 sounds like the response is an error
    Originally posted by Caz3121
    Thanks @Caz3121

    I did indeed. And actually they approved my expenses for food and train tickets.
    • Gulpiyuri
    • By Gulpiyuri 9th Jun 17, 8:00 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gulpiyuri
    Update: BA refuses compensation for cancelled flight on 27 May IT outage
    Hi there,

    I am one of may affected by the British Airways / BA cancellations on Sat 27 May. I was relocated to another flight two days later and I followed their procedure to submit my claim for cancellation compensation through their website.

    Surprise, surprise… I got today the attached screenshot as an answer where they refuse my claim…

    …I'd like to inform you that your claim’s been refused because BAXXXX on 27 May was cancelled because of operational circumstances outside of our control. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation. I'm sorry to disappoint you…

    I am really shocked with this and the rest of the attached email. Is this agent aware that British Airways have publicly described the issue as a "technical problem" and not a cyber attack, therefore the airline is responsible for compensation under EU regulation 261/2004? How come the rest of the thousands of passengers affected are getting their compensations?

    Obviously this agent doesn´t seem to be of help, so I called BA support line for flight refunds but all the calls are terminated after a recorded message stating that their operators are busy, thus try later (same) or go to the website.

    Please could you advise? Also, anyone else in the same situation?

    Thanks

    Originally posted by Gulpiyuri
    I managed to get a reply from BA via their Twitter account and the whole saga is getting more twisted:

    Hi, sorry for our late response. We've refused your claim for EU compensation as we are not the operator. Your flight was operated by Iberia Express. You'll need to make a claim with them. ^Helen


    This is plain ridiculous. Not only Iberia Express is another IAG company but also all Iberia Express flights from LHR depart from Terminal 5 and are operated by British Airways; hence the cancellation of the 27 May flight. Iberia Express doesn´t have any staff based in LHR and just provides the aircraft and the flight crew.

    Most importantly, I bought my flight ticket at BA.com site for a flight with a BA code operated by British Airways. As my e-ticket receipt states, the travel contract is between myself and British Airways, not any other third party or airline.

    I fly this route a lot and regardless the ticket is bought through any of BA (like this flight), Iberia Express or Iberia sites, the passenger online check-in has to be done via the BA site and it clearly states the flight is operated by BA.

    This answer also contradicts the information provided in the BA claim refusal email and also what I was told by BA staff on the 27-May both at London Heathrow and on the BA phone line when I was reallocated to another flight for the 29-May.

    It´s really sad to see how BA are trying to squeeze the lump here after the big fiasco from the IT outage.

    I keep pushing for this, but any further advise would be welcome.

    Thanks
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 9th Jun 17, 8:22 AM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 6,931 Thanks
    Caz3121
    Not only Iberia Express is another IAG company but also all Iberia Express flights from LHR depart from Terminal 5 and are operated by British Airways; hence the cancellation of the 27 May flight. Iberia Express doesn´t have any staff based in LHR and just provides the aircraft and the flight crew.
    Many airlines do not have staff at the airport and are managed by handling agents or partners, this does not mean they are not operating a flight. The aircraft and flight crew are generally the operating carrier's

    Most importantly, I bought my flight ticket at BA.com site for a flight with a BA code operated by British Airways. As my e-ticket receipt states, the travel contract is between myself and British Airways, not any other third party or airline.
    s
    Originally posted by Gulpiyuri
    For EU261 the flight number / where bought ticket is not relevant for EU261. The operating carrier is where the claim is made
    (BA will sell you a JFK-LHR flight with a BA flight number but operated by AA and if there is delays there is no EU261 claim from either party)
    What was your route/flight number?...It should be really simple to check out where the claim should go. On the BA website when you check the flight and see what is says under "Flight Operator"
    e.g. LHR-LPA will show BA536 with the Flight Operator as Iberia Express

    If flight operator shows as BA then you can dispute the response from BA
    If flight operator shows as Iberia Express then you claim from them
    • Gulpiyuri
    • By Gulpiyuri 9th Jun 17, 5:16 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gulpiyuri
    For EU261 the flight number / where bought ticket is not relevant for EU261. The operating carrier is where the claim is made
    (BA will sell you a JFK-LHR flight with a BA flight number but operated by AA and if there is delays there is no EU261 claim from either party)
    What was your route/flight number?...It should be really simple to check out where the claim should go. On the BA website when you check the flight and see what is says under "Flight Operator"
    e.g. LHR-LPA will show BA536 with the Flight Operator as Iberia Express

    If flight operator shows as BA then you can dispute the response from BA
    If flight operator shows as Iberia Express then you claim from them
    Originally posted by Caz3121

    Many thanks @Caz3121 for your answer.

    Indeed it´s an Iberia Express flight. I have submitted the claim to them and will report back when any finding

    I found this interesting piece of info: https://www.claimair.com/blog/how-to-get-compensations-from-codis leshare-flight/


    So, who you should claim to when your flight gets delayed, cancelled, your baggage gets lost or you are bumped off of the flight? Marketing airline? Operating airline? My answer is – once your flight is covered by the legislation, you can claim to whoever you want. That’s another advantage of codeshare – both operating and marketing carriers share their responsibilities and whoever you choose to claim to, they must pay attention to your complaint.

    However, there is another bad airlines’ common practice you should be aware of. Once you claim your rights to operating carrier whilst you had previously entered a contract with marketing carrier, you could be quickly wrongfully rejected by the operating carrier with an explanation that only marketing carrier is responsible because of your agreement. Sometimes it’s like fighting with windmills so my recommendation is to claim your rights to the airline you entered a contract with. According to the statistics, the amount of rejections is lower if you accomplish it this way so your complaint can be at least processed faster.

    Any thoughts on the above quote?

    However I also had a deep look into the EC261 text and it looks that the operating carrier is to blame: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32004R0261&from=EN

    On a related note, another interesting piece to the jigsaw: As per my original post, BA agreed to pay my food and train expenses and they also sorted out the hotel accommodation for a Yorkshire family I randomly met at my re-booked flight (they were also booked at my cancelled flight)… why BA paid those when they claim Iberia Express is liable?

    Thanks
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 9th Jun 17, 10:41 PM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 6,931 Thanks
    Caz3121


    [/SIZE]
    [INDENT] So, who you should claim to when your flight gets delayed, cancelled, your baggage gets lost or you are bumped off of the flight? Marketing airline? Operating airline? My answer is – once your flight is covered by the legislation, you can claim to whoever you want. That’s another advantage of codeshare – both operating and marketing carriers share their responsibilities and whoever you choose to claim to, they must pay attention to your complaint.[SIZE=2]
    Originally posted by Gulpiyuri
    Interesting that they contradict that in their answers to questions

    e.g.
    Q. Recently flew on an Iberian flight from barcelona to krakow. Marketed by Iberia (and who I bought tickets through) and operated by Vueling.......
    A.To answer your question, operating carrier should be the one responsible for it.....

    Q. Hi, I recently flew from Dallas to Chennai via Newark and London. The entire ticket was marketed by British airways : BA 2511 - Dallas to Newark, BA 188- Newark to London, BA35- London to Chennai. My flight from Dallas to Newark was delayed by more than 3 hours,....
    A. this is a classic codeshare issue. It is usual to see one flight marketed as even 5 or more airlines. However, the truth is that the operating carrier is the only one responsible....

    Q. I had a flight booked via BA for LAX-LHR-BLR with a stop over at London of a few days.
    My flight from LAX-LHR was cancelled (BA 1540) but apparently it was operated by AA...
    A. it's true that the flight would have to be operated by the EU-based airline (BA in your case) in order to get the compensation based on the EU regulation...

    these are similar examples to yours and there is no mention of being able to claim from marketing airline
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 9th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    • 9,559 Posts
    • 6,952 Thanks
    Crabman
    Unfortunately MSE has not posted a discussion link on the news item regarding BA's "genuine mistake" relating to claims.

    I found this quote from BA interesting:

    "We are sorry for this genuine mistake, and encourage any customers who think they have been incorrectly denied compensation to contact us again."

    If this was a genuine mistake, why isn't BA reassessing ALL claims so that the outcome is fair? I think we can work out the answer - not all customers will get in touch resulting in a saving for BA. Which raises the question - was this really a genuine mistake?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly & I can move & merge posts there. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 10th Jun 17, 9:09 AM
    • 4,607 Posts
    • 2,039 Thanks
    Vauban
    Interesting that they contradict that in their answers to questions

    e.g.
    Q. Recently flew on an Iberian flight from barcelona to krakow. Marketed by Iberia (and who I bought tickets through) and operated by Vueling.......
    A.To answer your question, operating carrier should be the one responsible for it.....

    Q. Hi, I recently flew from Dallas to Chennai via Newark and London. The entire ticket was marketed by British airways : BA 2511 - Dallas to Newark, BA 188- Newark to London, BA35- London to Chennai. My flight from Dallas to Newark was delayed by more than 3 hours,....
    A. this is a classic codeshare issue. It is usual to see one flight marketed as even 5 or more airlines. However, the truth is that the operating carrier is the only one responsible....

    Q. I had a flight booked via BA for LAX-LHR-BLR with a stop over at London of a few days.
    My flight from LAX-LHR was cancelled (BA 1540) but apparently it was operated by AA...
    A. it's true that the flight would have to be operated by the EU-based airline (BA in your case) in order to get the compensation based on the EU regulation...

    these are similar examples to yours and there is no mention of being able to claim from marketing airline
    Originally posted by Caz3121
    Yes. That blog is bollards. There's no ambiguity here on the question of codeshares - liability for compensation sits squarely and only with the operating air carrier, regardless of whom you bought your tickets from.

    The only caveat to this is why an airline "wet leases" a plane and crew from another airline to perform a flight on their behalf (Monarch do this a fair bit, since they don't seem to have enough planes for the routes they sell, oddly). In these circumstances the claim is still with the carrier who contracts the leased aircraft (i.e. Monarch).
    • flibblesan
    • By flibblesan 11th Jun 17, 11:29 AM
    • 50 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    flibblesan
    I had my flight from Amsterdam to Heathrow cancelled by BA on Sunday 28th of May due to the "IT issues". They rebooked me onto a flight departing the next day which was cancelled an hour later and after speaking to the Aviapartner staff I had to other choice than to book an alternative flight and claim it back, since they couldn't guarantee I would get back into the UK until Tuesday.

    I booked a flight with Vueling to Luton on Sunday evening at a cost of £103 plus £48.80 train fare to get home. I know BA won't refund the train costs.

    (I didn't wait for BA to sort this out since they wouldn't give me a hotel and said I had to pay for it and claim back. I couldn't find any rooms for less than £100 a night)

    I used the Resolver website to put a claim in and BA replied a few days ago to say I was eligible for the EU compensation. The email didn't say anything about refunding for the replacement flight I bought so I called them up. Initially the adviser said that BA was already refunding the return flight that was cancelled by them and he would enquire about the Vueling flight. After being placed on hold I was told that the Vueling flight would be refunded to me, but they would subtract the cost of the BA flight that I would've taken if it wasn't cancelled.

    This doesn't sound right to me. I asked for an explanation and I still didn't quite understand why I was being charged for a flight I didn't take.

    Is BA right to do this? They cancelled the return flight, I paid for an alternative out of my own pocket and BA have already publicly said they would refund alternative flights taken.

    I paid for the original BA flights using avios points & £55 cash on top so I'd only lose £27.50 but still..
    • JPears
    • By JPears 11th Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    • 2,886 Posts
    • 813 Thanks
    JPears
    But you would also loose all those Avios points (at least you were able to use them). Thier argument is that they are paying the difference, because you still made the actual journey. But they really should be paying the train fare as well because you didn't fly to you original destination.
    Don't forget you are also due compensation of 250Euro under reg 261/2004
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • flibblesan
    • By flibblesan 11th Jun 17, 12:11 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    flibblesan
    Yes, the original reply from them was regarding the EU compensation which they will be paying. I just contacted them to ask about a refund for the cancelled BA flight and the Vueling flight.

    I'll need to contact them regarding the Avios points.

    Edit: Just remembered, the adviser said that a refund for the return flight was already being processed for £27.50. BA were going to let that refund go through as normal, then take £27.50 away from the Vueling refund.

    Yes they made the argument that I still flew to the UK even if it was to another airport. I had a hotel booked at Heathrow due to the original flight landing at half 9, and a train from London to Nottingham on the Monday - both I've lost. The replacement flight was earlier than my original flight so I could go directly home. I've told BA about all these extra charges but I've got them with my travel insurance as well.
    Last edited by flibblesan; 11-06-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 11th Jun 17, 1:27 PM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 6,931 Thanks
    Caz3121
    After being placed on hold I was told that the Vueling flight would be refunded to me, but they would subtract the cost of the BA flight that I would've taken if it wasn't cancelled.

    This doesn't sound right to me. I asked for an explanation and I still didn't quite understand why I was being charged for a flight I didn't take.
    Originally posted by flibblesan
    you would not be refunded for both the original flight and the Vueling flight (that would have meant you had travelled for free)
    generally it would be either a refund of the original flight leaving you to rebook yourself
    or, BA would rebook you on an alternate flight at no additional cost to yourself
    either way you would still be paying for one flight

    The hotel and train are consequential losses that you can use your EU261 compensation for or deal with your travel insurance
    • flibblesan
    • By flibblesan 11th Jun 17, 6:07 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    flibblesan
    OK makes sense. BA already said they would refund the Vueling flight and take £27.50 away for the BA refund that is already being processed. So I'll effectively see the new flight refunded fully along with the EA compensation. Just need to wait for them to make the payment now. I gave them my bank details on Wednesday as they were originally going to issue a cheque for the EU compensation, but I requested that they pay everything into my bank instead.

    Now to see how long it takes.
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