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    • DavidChalmers
    • By DavidChalmers 17th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DavidChalmers
    Cancelled flight
    I have a Nile river cruise booked with Saga and we were to be flown by Thomson to Luxor on Wednesday 4th October. Thomson have now cancelled the flight. Saga switched my flight from Gatwick to Heathrow. So flight out was an earlier day and flight back was an early flight on the final day. I assumed Saga would refund the cost of travel and accommodation I had spent on the flight going from Gatwick. After all my contract was with them not Thomson. They said they were not liable because they had not cancelled the flight but have given a partial refund as a goodwill gesture. Surely if they are not liable Thomson is. If they are how would one go about claiming these costs. It seems to me wrong that Saga can duck what, to most people, would be their responsibility.
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 17th Jul 17, 4:12 PM
    • 730 Posts
    • 346 Thanks
    legal magpie
    David, did you book the whole holiday as a package through Saga or just the cruise?
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 17th Jul 17, 4:45 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    Thomson First Choice flying with Freebird 5.5hr delay from Antalya

    Just returned from Antalya after 1 week packaged holiday for a family of 7
    We were delayed at Manchester airport for 1.5hr outbound and 5.5hr return flight.
    Only found out about delay when we arrived at Antalya airport, despite on-line check showing flight time as 5.30p.m. before we left hotel for 15mins journey.

    Are Thompsons our first port of call?
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 17th Jul 17, 4:59 PM
    • 984 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    Justice13075
    Compensation is based on the delay to your arrival destination were you more than 3 hours late arriving in Antalya and were you more than 3 hours late arriving in Manchester? If you were what caused the delays?. Did you fly on a Thomson Plane?
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 17th Jul 17, 5:12 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    As explained above and in title.
    5.5hr delay flying from Antalya to Manchester
    Thomson used Freebird plane( international charter) which apparently they hire frequently.
    We were never given a reason for the delay home to Manchester
    however looking at airportia.com, the on-time frequency percentage seems abysmal.
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 17th Jul 17, 5:21 PM
    • 730 Posts
    • 346 Thanks
    legal magpie
    Sally, on the face of it you have a claim. Download and read Vauban's guide. Also put your flight number into bottonline and see what they say
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 17th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    Thanks Magpie, my daughter was the lead person and I think she has put in a claim this a.m. with Thomson/First Choice.
    Will try her later to see what she's actually done, she will send me flight info so I could input that.
    I quickly skimmed through Vaubin's guide but will have a closer look and pass any relevant info onto her.
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 17th Jul 17, 8:41 PM
    • 984 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    Justice13075
    The delay you had leaving Antalya for Manchester means diddly squat, it is the length of the delay when the doors are opened in Manchester. If they made up 2 3/4 hours you wont have a claim. Don't be Sarky people are trying to help you and your claim is against Freebird the airline not Thomson.
    Last edited by Justice13075; 17-07-2017 at 8:45 PM.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 17th Jul 17, 8:55 PM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 2,071 Thanks
    Vauban
    The delay you had leaving Antalya for Manchester means diddly squat, it is the length of the delay when the doors are opened in Manchester. If they made up 2 3/4 hours you wont have a claim. Don't be Sarky people are trying to help you and your claim is against Freebird the airline not Thomson.
    Originally posted by Justice13075
    Why would the claim definitely be against Freebird? If the aircraft was "wet leased" (where an airline buys in a plane and crew to help deliver their scheduled commitments) then the liability remains with the original airline.
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 20th Jul 17, 11:35 AM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    Claim put into Freebird, reply came back today.
    Guess what?
    Due to a a bird strike occurring to another of their planes which was the flight before ours which was grounded as it needed to be checked by Technical department.

    The message was a bit sloppy but in other words HARD LUCK, act of God etc.
    • DIYBaldyman
    • By DIYBaldyman 20th Jul 17, 11:58 AM
    • 96 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    DIYBaldyman
    Claim put into Freebird, reply came back today.
    Guess what?
    Due to a a bird strike occurring to another of their planes which was the flight before ours which was grounded as it needed to be checked by Technical department.

    The message was a bit sloppy but in other words HARD LUCK, act of God etc.
    Originally posted by SallySunshine

    This did not happen to your flight but a previous flight - Read Vauban's guide & refer to the Finnair judgement;

    "Articles 2(j) and 4(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that the occurrence of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ resulting in an air carrier rescheduling flights after those circumstances arose cannot give grounds for denying boarding on those later flights or for exempting that carrier from its obligation, under Article 4(3) of that regulation, to compensate a passenger to whom it denies boarding on such a flight."

    To put it simply, airlines can't use an 'extra-ordinary circumstance' event that happened on a previous flight as a valid reason for later flights being delayed.

    Send them NBA & take it from there (reference Vauban's guide again).
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    SUCCESS THROUGH PERSEVERANCE. Vauban's Guide has been of immense help - please read it before posting questions - I'll be surprised if your answers aren't in there.

    April 2016 - successfully claimed €1600 from Thomas Cook for 6 hour delay in August 2015
    • JPears
    • By JPears 20th Jul 17, 12:06 PM
    • 3,080 Posts
    • 867 Thanks
    JPears
    Its their hard luck. Bird strikes are NOT an EC. Time to send NBA then commence legal recovery of your compensation. But you need to establish first who is liable Freebird or Thomson. It depends on the nature of the lease arrangements. Unfortunately you may have raise 2 legal actions, 1 each, to sort out this mess.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 20th Jul 17, 12:33 PM
    • 730 Posts
    • 346 Thanks
    legal magpie
    The best way is to send an NBA to Thomson and include with it a request that they confirm (or not as the case may be) that, subject to liability they would be the correct Defendant. If they say no, you should send an NBA to Freebird asking the same question and sending them a copy of Thomson's reply. If both deny being the correct Defendant or if they fail to respond you should tell them that you will have to sue them both.
    This may seem a bit long winded but you will be able to prove to the Judge that you acted reasonably in suing both.
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 20th Jul 17, 12:38 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    The flight they gave us that caused the delay was from Stavenger in Norway, which according to that airline landed on time in Antalya on 15th July, there was only one flight that day.

    I'd originally rang Manchester airport to ask if the plane we were waiting for at Antalya had been given a reason for their delay. nothing on their system apparently.
    • DIYBaldyman
    • By DIYBaldyman 20th Jul 17, 1:29 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    DIYBaldyman
    I have a Nile river cruise booked with Saga and we were to be flown by Thomson to Luxor on Wednesday 4th October. Thomson have now cancelled the flight. Saga switched my flight from Gatwick to Heathrow. So flight out was an earlier day and flight back was an early flight on the final day. I assumed Saga would refund the cost of travel and accommodation I had spent on the flight going from Gatwick. After all my contract was with them not Thomson. They said they were not liable because they had not cancelled the flight but have given a partial refund as a goodwill gesture. Surely if they are not liable Thomson is. If they are how would one go about claiming these costs. It seems to me wrong that Saga can duck what, to most people, would be their responsibility.
    Originally posted by DavidChalmers
    Hi David,

    If I understand correctly the whole trip was booked with SAGA, but also this is a planned trip, not one that hasn't already occurred.

    The majority of posts on this forum are relating to claiming statutory compensation following a delay or cancellation to a flight already taken (or cancelled).

    If your whole trip was booked with SAGA & they decided to sub-let the flights to Thompson, they probably have a clause in their booking conditions (as the airlines do) that allows them to amend flight times providing they give you a certain period of notice. SAGA are still responsible for transporting you from the airport to the boat & back again on the return, so if the flight out has been moved to an earlier day, I would expect SAGA to arrange transfers & accommodation on arrival in Luxor until such time that the boat is ready to board. Also on the return SAGA will be responsible for ensuring you get to the airport on time after disembarking the boat. If you don't believe there is enough time raise your concerns with them before-hand.

    However, if you booked your UK travel & accommodation for the Gatwick flight independently, SAGA's liability begins & ends at the airport with the outbound & return flights, so you can't hold them responsible because you decided to pre-book these services.

    You don't say what the partial refund was made for, but assuming it was for the loss of time on your final day, depending on the amount they have offered it sounds to me like they're being reasonable, but could possibly be more helpful.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    SUCCESS THROUGH PERSEVERANCE. Vauban's Guide has been of immense help - please read it before posting questions - I'll be surprised if your answers aren't in there.

    April 2016 - successfully claimed €1600 from Thomas Cook for 6 hour delay in August 2015
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 20th Jul 17, 1:40 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    Just rang Bottomline, after my claim was rejected as we weren't flying from an EU country with an E.U. carrier
    Had a very informative chat with them.

    Was told that Bird Strike is now classed as E.C. by the E.U. recently.
    Very convenient for Freebird.
    Also very convenient for Thomson/First Choice/TUI and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all!

    By using this third party carrier based in Turkey it means lots of delayed passengers cannot claim compensation.
    Yet others who are flying with Thomson Airways can?
    • Jayb9998
    • By Jayb9998 20th Jul 17, 1:40 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Jayb9998
    Quick question guys I was delayed 30 days ago I sent letter before action 14 days ago after previous letter giving them 14 days they have failed to reply to both my question is am I allowed to take court action now it's not to soon etc from a legal perspective especially since a lba was sent thanks
    • JPears
    • By JPears 20th Jul 17, 2:50 PM
    • 3,080 Posts
    • 867 Thanks
    JPears
    Just rang Bottomline, after my claim was rejected as we weren't flying from an EU country with an E.U. carrier
    Had a very informative chat with them.

    Was told that Bird Strike is now classed as E.C. by the E.U. recently.
    Very convenient for Freebird.
    Also very convenient for Thomson/First Choice/TUI and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all!

    By using this third party carrier based in Turkey it means lots of delayed passengers cannot claim compensation.
    Yet others who are flying with Thomson Airways can?
    Originally posted by SallySunshine
    But an birdstrike on a different flight to yours would not normally be an EC. However the non EU things makes it a theoretical argument. Sorry
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • DIYBaldyman
    • By DIYBaldyman 20th Jul 17, 3:31 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    DIYBaldyman
    By using this third party carrier based in Turkey it means lots of delayed passengers cannot claim compensation.
    Yet others who are flying with Thomson Airways can?
    Originally posted by SallySunshine
    But an birdstrike on a different flight to yours would not normally be an EC. However the non EU things makes it a theoretical argument. Sorry
    Originally posted by JPears
    As I said before, even if a birdstrike is ruled as EC, it can't be used as a reason for later rescheduled flights.

    Refer back to Vauban's earlier post - it is possible that Thomson are still liable if they leased Freebird, but my gut tells me that Thomson have found a loophole to exploit their liabilities.

    Clutching at straws now, but was your flight always listed as being with Freebird (ie on your booking confirmation details)? You may have a claim if you were originally booked on a Thomson Airlines flight & were transferred to the Freebird flight at short notice.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    SUCCESS THROUGH PERSEVERANCE. Vauban's Guide has been of immense help - please read it before posting questions - I'll be surprised if your answers aren't in there.

    April 2016 - successfully claimed €1600 from Thomas Cook for 6 hour delay in August 2015
    • SallySunshine
    • By SallySunshine 20th Jul 17, 3:56 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    SallySunshine
    Thanks DIY,
    yes the documents state Freebird

    Loopholes?
    Please note that*** UK may provide accommodation, transport from a wide
    range of third party accommodation providers and carriers including airlines, ships and railways. The provision of these arrangements will be subject to the terms and conditions of each provider or carrier as part of your Conditions of Contract with us (either as agent for the provider or carrier or as part of our holiday package as you will see in section 1 of the Booking Terms and Conditions
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