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    • lolly2u
    • By lolly2u 7th Jun 17, 8:21 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lolly2u
    Thanks
    Thanks Jamie for reply would you be able to let me know the email address for the legal team &a managing director, tomorrow I will also start pushing CEDR daily, thanks again for your invaluable advice.
    • alisonmaui
    • By alisonmaui 7th Jun 17, 8:40 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    alisonmaui
    To Vauban
    Thank you! I prepared an application setting out the case law that says you can claim £18 a hour as a litigant in person and then filled out a Schedule of Costs that you can get from the court website. I also found some case law in support. Once you record all of your time in preparing your claim, bundle, witness statements and attendance at hearing it soon adds up. The Judge awarded the costs in full,
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 7th Jun 17, 8:53 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 393 Thanks
    Justice13075
    Great news. Maybe you could help others by posting how you claimed for being a litigant ,paperwork obviously no names and addresses. I am sure others would be interested in claiming for their time as well
    • alisonmaui
    • By alisonmaui 7th Jun 17, 9:03 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    alisonmaui
    This was my application (I made sure I made an offer to settle before I issued and made a "without prejudice save as to costs" offer after they had filed their Defence):-


    APPLICATION FOR UNREASONABLE COSTS AGAINST THE DEFENDANT


    1. The Claimants rely on the Chronology which sets out the Claimants attempts to resolve the matter and the Defendant’s unreasonable conduct.

    2. The Defendant did not respond to the Claimants’ claim properly either pre-action, to the Civil Aviation Authority or in the Defence.


    3. The majority of the Claimants’ correspondence has been ignored by the Defendant.

    4. The Claimants sent a letter before action to the Defendant on 04.05.16. The Defendant did not respond.


    5. The Defendant did not respond to the Civil Aviation Authority when the Claimant tried to resolve the matter through the complaints procedure.

    6. The Claimants made a without prejudice offer to settle on 03.12.16. The Claimants put the Defendant on notice that they would seek unreasonable costs if the matter proceeded to a hearing. This correspondence was ignored by the Defendant.

    7. The Claimants confirmed agreed to the matter being referred to the Small Claims Mediation Service in the Directions Questionnaire and completed the relevant forms. The Defendant did not agree to the matter being referred for mediation.

    8. The Claimants rely on 27.14(2)(g) of the Civil Procedure Rules which states that the Court may award:-
    “(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably”

    9. The Claimants attach a Schedule of Costs.

    10. The Claimants rely on The Litigants In Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.

    11. The Act gives a Litigant in Person the right to recover “sums in respect of any work done, and any expenses and losses incurred, by the litigant in or in connection with the proceedings to which the order relates”.

    12. Paragraph 52.4 of the Costs Practice Direction was amended with effect from 1 October 2011 to increase costs payable from £9.25 per hour to £18.00 per hour.

    13. In Mealing-McLeod v The Common Professional Examination Board [2000] EWHC 185 (QB) the court said
    “A solicitor’s charging rate includes or takes account of the fact that he has support staff, secretaries, messengers and so forth. A Litigant in Person, for example, must himself post letters, takes files to court and photocopy documents. “The time spent reasonably doing the work…..” mentioned in CPR 48.6(4) permits a reasonable assessment of time spent by the Litigant in Person and should reflect those matters”.

    14. In Memon v TNT UK Ltd (2009) Judge Platt sitting at Romford County Court held on appeal that the District Judge was wrong to refuse the Defendant an unreasonable costs order, where the Claimant had attempted to claim 24 days car hire, but where the court subsequently held that there was no need for the Claimant to hire a car at all. The appeal was allowed.

    15. In Clohessy v Homes (2003), District Judge Stuart-Brown, sitting in Bristol County Court granted the Defendants an unreasonable costs order, where he it was held that on any objective assessment, the claim was likely to have failed from the outset.

    16. The Claimant has made all reasonable attempts to settle this claim and made pre-action and post-action offers to settle. These has been ignored by the Defendants who never provided the Claimants with a substantive reply to the claim.

    The Statement of Costs I filled in is here:-
    Oops I cannot post a link as a new user but it is Court Form N260
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 8th Jun 17, 10:55 PM
    • 664 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    legal magpie
    Sheer brilliance, Alison. I could not have set out the claim better myself
    • panda_jamie
    • By panda_jamie 9th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    panda_jamie
    lolly2u Thomson emails are all @thomson.co.uk Prefixes are customer.legal and david.burling
    You can also phone customer services every day. Although it's a call centre they are friendly and they will also send an email to the relevant team so it's just more hassle
    Good luck!
    • David wrigght
    • By David wrigght 9th Jun 17, 3:09 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    David wrigght
    Thomson failure to pay.
    We have been through the whole claims process and the CEDR rule in our favour. They have told us Thomson are legal required to pay us but they can't enforce it. How do we get our money? Any advice would be much appreciated.
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 9th Jun 17, 3:56 PM
    • 664 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    legal magpie
    Sue them, David and refer to the CEDR ruling. Also write to CAA telling them that Thomson are failure to comply with CEDR. They know already but the more examples they get the better
    • alisonmaui
    • By alisonmaui 9th Jun 17, 9:16 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    alisonmaui
    Legal Proceedings
    Hi David,
    The below is for guidance only from my personal experience - it worked for me but there is further guidance in the Civil Procedure Rules on how to start a small claim. There is separate guidance from the court on completing a claim online.

    You should send a letter before action (there is one on Vauban's legal guide) saying that if you do not receive payment in 14 days you will issue proceedings and they will be responsible for the further costs incurred. If they don't pay, issue proceedings and claim the extra costs from them. It may sound daunting but it is worth it in the end and you have the backing of the arbitration decision.

    You can do it online if it is just for you or you will need to file it by post if, for example, you are a family. I did it by post as we were claiming on behalf of children also.

    If you are claiming on behalf of children you need to put something like this on the claim form (Court Form N1):-
    In the County Court Money Claims Centre (all claims start here)

    Claimants names and addresses including postcode
    Mrs XX XX (1) Address
    Mr XX XX (2) Address
    Miss XX XX (Date of Birth) (a minor by her mother (or father etc) and litigation friend XX) (3) Address
    (the Court insisted on me specifying the address for each Claimant even though it was the same address)

    Defendants name and address including postcode
    Thomson Airways Ltd
    Wigmore House, Wigmore Lane
    Luton
    LU2 9TN

    Brief details of claim
    Compensation for a flight delay by virtue or EU Regulation 261/2004 was The Claimants' flight from XX to XX (Flight Number) on DATE was delayed by XXX

    You also need to fill in Court Form N235 (available on the court website) for each child you are acting for (Certificate of Suitability of Litigation Friend)

    You also need to attach a Particulars of Claim. An example is below.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT MONEY CLAIMS CENTRE
    Case No.
    BETWEEN
    Mrs XXX (1)
    Mr XXX (2)
    Miss XXX (DOB) (a minor by her mother and
    litigation friend XXX) (3)
    Miss XXX (DOB) (a minor by her mother and
    litigation friend XXX) (4)
    Claimants
    AND

    Thomson Airways Limited
    Defendant


    PARTICULARS OF CLAIM


    1. On Tuesday 21st July 2015, the Claimants arrived at Manchester Airport at approximately 8.45am to check in for the Defendant’s flight TOM 122 to Orlando Sanford Airport.

    2. A copy of the Claimants’ invoice is at Document 1. This was the first time the Claimants had been on holiday to America as a family and had saved hard to be able to afford the holiday. For the first week of the holiday, the Claimants were staying at Disney World in Florida. Expecting to arrive at the resort at approximately 17:30 (local time), the Claimants booked “fast passes” so they could go to the Magic Theme Park on arrival and use their fast passes to go on the rides on the first day of their holiday.

    3. On arrival at the airport, the Claimant were advised that their flight had been delayed for three hours. The reason given by the check in staff (both at the counter and waiting at the front of the check in queuing rope) was that the delay was due to “Scheduled Maintenance”.

    4. The flight departed from Manchester Airport at approximately 14:30 hours and landed at approximately 18:20 hours (local time at Orlando Sanford airport). The First Claimant noted that the plane had landed 2 hours and 55 minutes late and commented to her family that they could not claim compensation for the delay as that was her mistaken belief at the time.

    5. The Claimants’ recollection of the flight landing time accords with the record of the flight at flightaware.com which recorded the landing time as 18:17 (Document 2) and the landing time confirmed by the Defendant in correspondence.

    6. On 20 March 2016, the Claimants became aware of the case of Germanwings GmbH v Ronny Henning (C-452/13) (Document 3) which clarified the relevant time when calculating the total delay. The case made clear that the relevant time is the time at which at least one of the doors of the aircraft opened.

    7. The Claimants submit that the doors to the plane did not open until 18:30 at the earliest. The Claimants had a fast pass ride booked for “Under the Sea – the Journey of the Little Mermaid” which expired at 18:30 and the Claimants were still sat in their seats waiting for the plane to arrive at the terminal at that time. The first Claimant commented to her family, whilst sat in her seat with the seatbelt on and the plane still moving towards the terminal, that the fast pass had expired.

    8. On 20th March 2016, the First Claimant wrote to the Defendant setting out the details of their claim. A copy of the correspondence between the parties is at Documentt 4.

    9. The Defendant has responded twice but both replies fail to address all the issues raised and do not consider the case of Germanwings GmbH v Ronny Henning (C-452/13). The Defendant has maintained that the flight “arrived” at 18:20 local time and was therefore 2 hours and 55 minutes late. The Claimants submit that this was the time the flight landed on the runway and not the time that the doors to the plane were opened as evidenced above and by the attached documents.

    10. The Defendant has consistently failed to provide a substantive response or respond to the Claimants’ correspondence with anything other than a standard template letter which does not address the issues raised.

    11. The Claimants submitted a complaint to the Civil Aviation Authority (“CAA”) on 4th May 2016. On 21st October 2016 the CAA wrote to the Claimants to say that the Defendant had not responded to their correspondence and they were unable to assist further. The CAA did indicate however that, on the information available, compensation was payable in this case. A copy of the letter from the CAA is at Document 5.

    12. The flight was delayed by at least 3 hours and 5 minutes

    13. The Claimants are entitled to 300 Euros per person which equates to a total of £1,070. The First Claimant also claims for miscellaneous expenses of £50 for preparing the claim and incurring postal costs.

    AND THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM

    14. The sum of £1,120.00.


    Statement of Truth
    I believe that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true.
    Dated this 21st October 2016
    To the Court and
    to the Defendant

    ..........................
    XXX
    First Claimant
    of (address)
    ..........................
    XXX
    Second Claimant
    of (address)


    ..........................
    Miss XXXr (a minor by her mother and litigation friend XX)

    Third Claimant


    ..........................
    Miss XXX (a minor by her mother and litigation friend XXX)

    Fourth Claimant
    of (address)
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 9th Jun 17, 11:29 PM
    • 664 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    legal magpie
    Very good pleading although it is neither necessary nor desirable to include documents or exhibits when starting a claim. Certainly not reports of cases. Too many documents at the early stage make the court file unwieldy.
    You can also claim interest on the money.
    • alisonmaui
    • By alisonmaui 10th Jun 17, 9:20 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    alisonmaui
    Legal Proceedings
    Very good pleading although it is neither necessary nor desirable to include documents or exhibits when starting a claim. Certainly not reports of cases. Too many documents at the early stage make the court file unwieldy.
    You can also claim interest on the money.
    Originally posted by legal magpie
    I included the documents because I wanted a build a case from the start for unreasonable conduct and in the hope that early disclosure would prompt Thomson to settle. Interest is not recoverable as compensation under Article 7 of the Regulation does not constitute "the recovery of a debt or damages" as defined in Section 69(1) of the County Courts Act 1984. The Judge confirmed interest was not recoverable at my hearing.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 10th Jun 17, 10:14 AM
    • 4,572 Posts
    • 2,024 Thanks
    Vauban
    I included the documents because I wanted a build a case from the start for unreasonable conduct and in the hope that early disclosure would prompt Thomson to settle. Interest is not recoverable as compensation under Article 7 of the Regulation does not constitute "the recovery of a debt or damages" as defined in Section 69(1) of the County Courts Act 1984. The Judge confirmed interest was not recoverable at my hearing.
    Originally posted by alisonmaui
    That's one a view that some judges have - others disagree. I got interest at 8% on my claim.
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 11th Jun 17, 8:56 PM
    • 664 Posts
    • 330 Thanks
    legal magpie
    I certainly disagree. I also recovered interest under the CCA but it is necessary to plead it.
    • liljodes
    • By liljodes 12th Jun 17, 9:04 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    liljodes
    Morning All,

    This is my first post. I just wanted some advise as I had a 7 hour delay back in April from Malta to Gatwick.
    I used the Resolver Tool the following day (after a bit of sleep) and I have not had one response from Thomson yet. I am able to escalate my claim through to customer services in 2 days according to Resolver, but I have sent 3 emails asking them to acknowledge my claim but nothing. Is this normal? Has anyone had experience with using Resolver with Thomson?

    Thanks all in advance,

    Jodie
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Jun 17, 10:23 AM
    • 2,840 Posts
    • 802 Thanks
    JPears
    You could try escalation but after 2 months will that make any difference?
    Download Vauban's excellent guide, read, send your claim directly to Thomson. If no reply then issue your NBA and prepare your small claims papers.
    Assuming your delay was not an EC?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • liljodes
    • By liljodes 12th Jun 17, 11:09 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    liljodes
    I'm sorry, what does EC mean?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Jun 17, 11:10 AM
    • 2,840 Posts
    • 802 Thanks
    JPears
    Extraordinary Circumstances. You need to read Vauban's guide (google) if you are going to take this any further.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • PaulH40
    • By PaulH40 12th Jun 17, 11:29 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    PaulH40
    I just arrived back from Orlando in what can only be described as the flight from hell. We originally arrived at the airport for our 5.30pm local time flight on Friday a 3pm. We were greeted by a Thomson rep telling us no flight today due to Manchester bomb scare. Which quickly changed to technical fault as we were ushered into a room before being bussed off to a hotel.

    At the hotel we were told that the flight would be some time the next day to be confirmed. It was no long before the truth why the flight had been delayed came out http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thomson-dreamliner-forced-make-emergency-13163067
    We know for a fact that the plane should have set off at 11am UK time because that was when we left 2 weeks earlier and that this would have brought people in from Manchester and us back out. We were given letters that said due to security issue and technical issues. This was a lie because the security issue happened long after the flight was due to leave and that passengers stranded in Manchester could not leave due to the plane requiring urgent repairs.

    We were told the next day that we would not be flying on today and we were booked to fly Sunday morning at 9am. Later that day the flight was then moved to 11am. Later that day one of the passengers had found on the Sanford website that the flight was further delayed until 12.30pm. We were told were told that this was not true and we were still flying at 11am and the plan was to give us a grab and go breakfast and bus us out at 7am.

    Having then woke up at 6am and gone for the grab and go breakfast consisting of an apple a cinnamon bun and a sunny D with E's than a 1990's raver on a Saturday night. More passengers questioned the whether the flight was going to leave at 11am and not 12.30 as per official Sanford airport website. We were again lied to and told it would be 11am.

    Having then being dumped at the airport at 7.30am we were left to find out the flight had been delayed until 12.30. At this point myself and other passengers tried to ask to speak to a Thomson rep. Unsurprisingly they had all gone home and they were not answering telephone calls or social media. The airport could do nothing due to the 4 hour delay rule. So we were pretty much helpless some had nothing at all it was a disgusting act from Thomson who just wanted us out of the hotel and not costing them any more money.

    Finally at 11.30 the captain and crew arrived. The captain gave us the company line came from the pilot about bomb scares (lie suspect package), technical fault (yep the engine nearly set on fire and plane was still in Manchester) the flight crews having to go home etc. We were then told from our Manchester counter parts via social media that the delayed Friday flight went out on much later that day and that and old lush who had got a little carried away with herself in the bar. The staff had issues containing her and then passengers witnessed an American Airlines style arrest with the old lush having her head smashed against the tarmac in Orlando by the Feds. So it was obvious that the staff been given time off to recover from the ordeal suffered coming back over.

    We finally arrived back in Manchester 44 hours late with 2 letters one blaming the Manchester bomb hoax and the mention of a technical fault given to us in Orlando The other handed out at Manchester Airport directing us to our travel insurance.

    As you can imagine I am pretty angry and fed up with Thomson right now . My question is can I claim off both travel insurance and Thomson? I have checked my travel insurance and its maximum of £1000 per person compared to the 600 euro per person from the airline compensation. My question is do I get 2 bites at the cherry.

    1 Claim from travel insurance and airline?

    2. Can I claim out of pocket expense from the airline?
    Last edited by PaulH40; 12-06-2017 at 1:27 PM.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Jun 17, 12:19 PM
    • 2,840 Posts
    • 802 Thanks
    JPears
    Welcome to the forum.
    Perhaps you need some more sleep and re-write your very confusing post. I've read it twice and really can't make sense of it.
    We need the facts, dates times, flights etc And the reasons given and the actual reasons for the delay.
    And download Vauban's guide for much useful information.
    Thanks
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • PaulH40
    • By PaulH40 12th Jun 17, 1:28 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    PaulH40
    Welcome to the forum.
    Perhaps you need some more sleep and re-write your very confusing post. I've read it twice and really can't make sense of it.
    We need the facts, dates times, flights etc And the reasons given and the actual reasons for the delay.
    And download Vauban's guide for much useful information.
    Thanks
    Originally posted by JPears
    Thanks just edited hope that this makes more sense.

    Can you direct me to Vauban's guide please.
    Last edited by PaulH40; 12-06-2017 at 1:50 PM.
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