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  • FIRST POST
    trickyvickz
    Liverpool Airport Parking fine
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:02 PM
    Liverpool Airport Parking fine 8th Jan 13 at 3:02 PM
    Hi All I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice.

    I received a letter from a company called Vehicle Control who it seems control the roads near Liverpool airport with their shinny CCTV Vans.

    The reason for the fine is that we were 'stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited'. I have drafted a letter back explaining that we were stopped for a total of 34 seconds without taking the foot off the foot brake or exiting the vehicle, and that the reason we were stopped is that we had stopped 5 meters short of the barrier for the car park was to avoid obstruction to other road users while we located the pre-paid ticket for the car park, but I was wondering if anyone had any legal terminology that I can throw in as I am struggling to understand how a fine can be issued for stopping for less than a minute on a road that leads to a barrier?

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance

    Vicky
Page 1
  • ManxRed
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:24 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:24 PM
    A fine cannot be issued by a private company, but if you look more closely at their correspondence you will see they carefully avoid mentioning that it is a fine or penalty for this very reason.

    It is instead meant to trick you into inferring that it is some form of fine (and as you can see, it works).

    What you actually have is an invoice inviting you to settle a charge they have levied in respect of a breach of contract - a contract they will claim has been entered into by virtue of the driver reading the signs on site.

    Legally, you should let them know that you suspect that they do not have sufficient proprietary or occupational rights in the land to offer a contract in the first place, and that the sum requested is not representative of the landowner's actual losses incurred as a result of the driver's actions, and therefore unenforceable under Civil Law.

    And, as such, you are not going to pay.

    Forget the other stuff in your letter - the two points above will floor them.

    They will possibly take this as an appeal and reject it, but you are under no obligation to pay and they don't have much of a legal leg to stand on and what's more they know it.
    Je Suis Deirdre.
  • trickyvickz
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:44 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:44 PM
    Thanks for this. I have had another look at the paperwork and it doesn't mention the word 'fine' but it does say that it is a parking charge notice for breaking the car park terms and conditions of access to the privately operated roads at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It also says that they are an approved operator and member of the British Parking Association operating in accordance with the 'code of practice for enforcement of parking on private land.

    Do you still think they don't have a leg to stand on because if so I will definitely be using your advice of refusing to pay instead of justifying the offense.
  • itsgazza
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:52 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:52 PM
    Hi Trickyvickz

    there are threads galore on the forum about this... check them out before you decide to enter into any correspondence or pay any monies.. the general concensus is ignore everything they say and do as its all hot air & bluster
  • Stroma
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:55 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 13, 3:55 PM
    Thanks for this. I have had another look at the paperwork and it doesn't mention the word 'fine' but it does say that it is a parking charge notice for breaking the car park terms and conditions of access to the privately operated roads at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It also says that they are an approved operator and member of the British Parking Association operating in accordance with the 'code of practice for enforcement of parking on private land.

    Do you still think they don't have a leg to stand on because if so I will definitely be using your advice of refusing to pay instead of justifying the offense.
    Originally posted by trickyvickz
    They don't do court, there is no loss to the parking company in the 34 seconds you were there. This is an illegal penalty ignore them
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
  • ManxRed
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 13, 4:03 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 13, 4:03 PM
    I still think they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

    How's that?

    Ignore them, the landowner has suffered no financial loss as a result of the driver's actions. They have no right to seek anything in excess of the actual loss suffered. Which is Ł0.00.

    They know this as well, which is why they will send plenty of threats, mentioning court cases, CCJs, Debt Collectors, Bailiffs, Credit Ratings, etc. All of it is tosh, and is designed to scare you into parting with your money.

    They don't do court.

    They'd lose.
    Je Suis Deirdre.
  • The Slithy Tove
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 13, 4:31 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 13, 4:31 PM
    I still think they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

    How's that?
    Originally posted by ManxRed
    More reasons:

    The OP was never parked, nor entered a car park. So how do they issue a parking notice for what was dropping off/picking up (a legitimate activity on a public highway)?

    All they can claim is that you broke some sort of contract. As the only way you could have entered into a contract is to have managed to read and accept the words in small typeface on the lengthy notice which were displayed as you drove by it at 30mph (what, you mean you didn't see it?), then no contract was ever formed, so you cannot be in breach of it. Game over.

    VCS also know that they are not even in a position to form a contract anyway (a court of record has told them this), as they don't have sufficient interest in the land. Yet they are ignoring the court and continuing to send out demands for money that have absolutely no right to. Incredible, isn't it?
  • Guys Dad
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 13, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 13, 5:26 PM
    Or, if there was a parking notice nearby, you could tell them you had paused to read the notice so that you wouldn't incur a penalty.
  • trickyvickz
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 13, 6:10 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 13, 6:10 PM
    Thanks everyone, sounds like these guys are hard work but don't worry, I don't intend to give them a penny!
  • fil cad
    Thanks everyone, sounds like these guys are hard work but don't worry, I don't intend to give them a penny!
    Originally posted by trickyvickz
    GOOD thats the way to deal with the scum.
    Always park pretty, if you do fall victim to a PPCs parking scam, read all the stickys on here, and get good help, or you can just cave in and pay them in full with monopoly money!.
  • trickyvickz
    If anyone else has this kind of hastle, I found the following which is good to throw into the appeal letter:

    Where a term is considered unfair, it is therefore not binding:
    8.—(1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.
    In the case of a parking ticket, if a term is found to be unfair, then the parking company cannot enforce it.


    the Office of Fair Trading has issued guidance on its view of this legislation to provide guidance to courts about how the law should be interpreted. In this document they provide guidance for disproportionately high compensation.



    5.1 It is unfair to impose disproportionate sanctions for breach of contract. A requirement to pay more in compensation for a breach than a reasonable pre-estimate of the loss caused to the supplier is one kind of excessive penalty. Such a requirement will, in any case, normally be void to the extent that it amounts to a penalty under English common law.

    I would post the link if i could, but the website link is parkingcowboysdotcodotuk if anyone else can translate it.

    Thanks again everyone
  • Shelly 57
    Hi, having just received a PCN from the company that runs the parking at Liverpool Airport I have responded as follows, I hope that it may help others, I am aware that I can just ignore the request for payment but did not fancy all the threatening letters and bad credit reports;-

    To: The Manager
    Central Payment Office,
    Vehicle Control Services Ltd,
    PO Box 4777,
    Sheffield, S9 9DJ

    Without prejudice, save as to costs
    Re. Parking Charge Notice No.
    *******

    John Lennon, Liverpool Airport.
    Vehicle registration ********.
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I was very surprised to receive a 'Parking Charge Notice' no.********** today from The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool for my vehicle whose registration number is set out at the top of this letter. I dispute the charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that without prejudice to the fact that I dispute the whole basis of the claim, my main beef is with what I consider to be a disproportionate and punitive level of charge.
    a; You offer no photographic proof of my vehicle been in a controlled area of the airport [exact location]
    b; No one stopped your agent from issuing the alleged parking/stopping infraction notice to the driver or it been placed on the vehicle
    c; The vehicle used to take the photo lacked any signage as to being an official parking enforcer mobile cctv vehicle,[ entrapment comes to mind ] what’s more your employee failed in his duty of care to ascertain what the reason for the vehicle stopping was, if it was due to the driver feeling unwell or unable to drive and a change of driver was taken place.
    d; Only double yellow lines are in use along the long stretch of the approach road
    e; As a holder of a blue badge it is permitted to stop on double yellow lines for up to 3hrs. in fact the vehicle was only allegedly stopped according you photos for 1min. although does not specify exact location {blue badge holders are allowed to stop momentarily in red route to collect and drop off disable passenger’s and both my husband and I are disabled}

    1. No contract
    There was no contract between myself and either Vehicle Control Services Ltd or The John Lennon Airport Liverpool. What`s more I did not see the notices being as I did not enter the car park and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required to circulate in the airport access roads. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied.



    2. Trespass
    If there was no contract, at most I was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did not enter or made damage to the car park or access roads, I would suggest that there was therefore no loss at all.

    3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable
    Without prejudice to the foregoing, even if there was a contract (which is denied):

    a. Punitive
    The charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void (ie. unenforceable) against me. The charge of Ł60 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different beast). This is all the more so for the additional charge of Ł40 which you say accrues after fourteen days of non-payment. This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

    b. Unfair
    The charge you are levying is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

    c. Unreasonable
    The charge you are levying is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

    Further information
    Please take this letter to constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice. I also make the following points. I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct

    1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that I entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say I agreed.

    2. Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either yourselves or The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool,
    a; As per airport web site says there is a free 5min. drop off point and the alleged stopping infraction is according to the photos 1 min. therefore your loss is NIL
    b; also as per web site it says that all access roads are now a RED ROUTE but not road marked as such only double yellow lines are in place

    3. The appeal: please send me a copy of the procedure which you follow, along with setting out what factors are taken into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments being put by yourselves on this matter in the Appeal so that I might reply to any new issues which are raised. If you decide to dismiss the appeal, please send me the full reasoning in relation to each of the specific points raised in this letter.

    4. Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘Appeals/challenges received after 28 (twenty-eight) days will not be upheld or considered unless in extreme circumstances, and at the Company’s discretion.’ Please tell me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above)?

    5. Your 'Parking Charge Notice': what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally get declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is?

    6. Your Notice mentions that 'A photograph has been taken of the vehicle for evidential value and will be stored in accordance with the Company's Data Protection procedures'. Please send me a copy of those procedures. Furthermore, pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of any such photo along with a copy of any other data which you hold relating to me.
    a; Please advise as to how you have the right to obtain my details from DVLA as you are a LTD company
    b; I will take now the opportunity of advising you of your breach of information act, been as you have sent your PCN in an open envelope which has been sent by the royal mail post and open for anyone to see and read the details of its contents especially as it has Excel Parking services Ltd.
    c; What is the relationship between ‘Vehicle Control Services Ltd’ and Excel Parking services Ltd.

    7. Please send me details of any Codes by which you claim to comply and any governing body or other such organization of which you are a member.

    8. Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

    9. For the avoidance of doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do the following:
    a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.
    b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.
    c. Send me any standard letters either from yourselves or debt-collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.


    10. If you want to make a claim , for your information you can issue online or I am sure that Sheffield County Court would also be very happy to give you a form. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:
    a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to my Defense.
    b. Please rest assured that I will be more than happy to attend any court mediation's which might be offered.


    I look forward to your earliest reply.

    Yours faithfully,



  • Sirdan
    Hi, having just received a PCN from the company that runs the parking at Liverpool Airport I have responded as follows, I hope that it may help others, I am aware that I can just ignore the request for payment but did not fancy all the threatening letters and bad credit reports;-

    To: The Manager
    Central Payment Office,
    Vehicle Control Services Ltd,
    PO Box 4777,
    Sheffield, S9 9DJ

    Without prejudice, save as to costs
    Re. Parking Charge Notice No. *******

    John Lennon, Liverpool Airport.
    Vehicle registration ********.
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I was very surprised to receive a 'Parking Charge Notice' no.********** today from The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool for my vehicle whose registration number is set out at the top of this letter. I dispute the charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that without prejudice to the fact that I dispute the whole basis of the claim, my main beef is with what I consider to be a disproportionate and punitive level of charge.
    a; You offer no photographic proof of my vehicle been in a controlled area of the airport [exact location]
    b; No one stopped your agent from issuing the alleged parking/stopping infraction notice to the driver or it been placed on the vehicle
    c; The vehicle used to take the photo lacked any signage as to being an official parking enforcer mobile cctv vehicle,[ entrapment comes to mind ] what’s more your employee failed in his duty of care to ascertain what the reason for the vehicle stopping was, if it was due to the driver feeling unwell or unable to drive and a change of driver was taken place.
    d; Only double yellow lines are in use along the long stretch of the approach road
    e; As a holder of a blue badge it is permitted to stop on double yellow lines for up to 3hrs. in fact the vehicle was only allegedly stopped according you photos for 1min. although does not specify exact location {blue badge holders are allowed to stop momentarily in red route to collect and drop off disable passenger’s and both my husband and I are disabled}

    1. No contract
    There was no contract between myself and either Vehicle Control Services Ltd or The John Lennon Airport Liverpool. What`s more I did not see the notices being as I did not enter the car park and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required to circulate in the airport access roads. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied.



    2. Trespass
    If there was no contract, at most I was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did not enter or made damage to the car park or access roads, I would suggest that there was therefore no loss at all.

    3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable
    Without prejudice to the foregoing, even if there was a contract (which is denied):

    a. Punitive
    The charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void (ie. unenforceable) against me. The charge of Ł60 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different beast). This is all the more so for the additional charge of Ł40 which you say accrues after fourteen days of non-payment. This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

    b. Unfair
    The charge you are levying is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

    c. Unreasonable
    The charge you are levying is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

    Further information
    Please take this letter to constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice. I also make the following points. I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct

    1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that I entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say I agreed.

    2. Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either yourselves or The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool,
    a; As per airport web site says there is a free 5min. drop off point and the alleged stopping infraction is according to the photos 1 min. therefore your loss is NIL
    b; also as per web site it says that all access roads are now a RED ROUTE but not road marked as such only double yellow lines are in place

    3. The appeal: please send me a copy of the procedure which you follow, along with setting out what factors are taken into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments being put by yourselves on this matter in the Appeal so that I might reply to any new issues which are raised. If you decide to dismiss the appeal, please send me the full reasoning in relation to each of the specific points raised in this letter.

    4. Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘Appeals/challenges received after 28 (twenty-eight) days will not be upheld or considered unless in extreme circumstances, and at the Company’s discretion.’ Please tell me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above)?

    5. Your 'Parking Charge Notice': what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally get declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is?

    6. Your Notice mentions that 'A photograph has been taken of the vehicle for evidential value and will be stored in accordance with the Company's Data Protection procedures'. Please send me a copy of those procedures. Furthermore, pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of any such photo along with a copy of any other data which you hold relating to me.
    a; Please advise as to how you have the right to obtain my details from DVLA as you are a LTD company
    b; I will take now the opportunity of advising you of your breach of information act, been as you have sent your PCN in an open envelope which has been sent by the royal mail post and open for anyone to see and read the details of its contents especially as it has Excel Parking services Ltd.
    c; What is the relationship between ‘Vehicle Control Services Ltd’ and Excel Parking services Ltd.

    7. Please send me details of any Codes by which you claim to comply and any governing body or other such organization of which you are a member.

    8. Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

    9. For the avoidance of doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do the following:
    a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.
    b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.
    c. Send me any standard letters either from yourselves or debt-collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.


    10. If you want to make a claim , for your information you can issue online or I am sure that Sheffield County Court would also be very happy to give you a form. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:
    a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to my Defense.
    b. Please rest assured that I will be more than happy to attend any court mediation's which might be offered.


    I look forward to your earliest reply.

    Yours faithfully,


    Originally posted by Shelly 57
    What a dreadful waste of your time I fear. They won't take a blind bit of notice I don't think . They will just send out their usual template letters..reasoning and rational thought are not in the business model ..bullying,threatening,harassing letters most certainly are.

    PS Any member of the BPA-AOS (which they are) is entitled to access DVLA data there is a statutory regulation that allows for it.(See DVLA website for full info)
  • Stroma
    Hi, having just received a PCN from the company that runs the parking at Liverpool Airport I have responded as follows, I hope that it may help others, I am aware that I can just ignore the request for payment but did not fancy all the threatening letters and bad credit reports;-

    To: The Manager
    Central Payment Office,
    Vehicle Control Services Ltd,
    PO Box 4777,
    Sheffield, S9 9DJ

    Without prejudice, save as to costs
    Re. Parking Charge Notice No.
    *******

    John Lennon, Liverpool Airport.
    Vehicle registration ********.
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I was very surprised to receive a 'Parking Charge Notice' no.********** today from The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool for my vehicle whose registration number is set out at the top of this letter. I dispute the charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that without prejudice to the fact that I dispute the whole basis of the claim, my main beef is with what I consider to be a disproportionate and punitive level of charge.
    a; You offer no photographic proof of my vehicle been in a controlled area of the airport [exact location]
    b; No one stopped your agent from issuing the alleged parking/stopping infraction notice to the driver or it been placed on the vehicle
    c; The vehicle used to take the photo lacked any signage as to being an official parking enforcer mobile cctv vehicle,[ entrapment comes to mind ] what’s more your employee failed in his duty of care to ascertain what the reason for the vehicle stopping was, if it was due to the driver feeling unwell or unable to drive and a change of driver was taken place.
    d; Only double yellow lines are in use along the long stretch of the approach road
    e; As a holder of a blue badge it is permitted to stop on double yellow lines for up to 3hrs. in fact the vehicle was only allegedly stopped according you photos for 1min. although does not specify exact location {blue badge holders are allowed to stop momentarily in red route to collect and drop off disable passenger’s and both my husband and I are disabled}

    1. No contract
    There was no contract between myself and either Vehicle Control Services Ltd or The John Lennon Airport Liverpool. What`s more I did not see the notices being as I did not enter the car park and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required to circulate in the airport access roads. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied.



    2. Trespass
    If there was no contract, at most I was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did not enter or made damage to the car park or access roads, I would suggest that there was therefore no loss at all.

    3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable
    Without prejudice to the foregoing, even if there was a contract (which is denied):

    a. Punitive
    The charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void (ie. unenforceable) against me. The charge of Ł60 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different beast). This is all the more so for the additional charge of Ł40 which you say accrues after fourteen days of non-payment. This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

    b. Unfair
    The charge you are levying is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

    c. Unreasonable
    The charge you are levying is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

    Further information
    Please take this letter to constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice. I also make the following points. I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct

    1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that I entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say I agreed.

    2. Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either yourselves or The John Lennon Airport, Liverpool,
    a; As per airport web site says there is a free 5min. drop off point and the alleged stopping infraction is according to the photos 1 min. therefore your loss is NIL
    b; also as per web site it says that all access roads are now a RED ROUTE but not road marked as such only double yellow lines are in place

    3. The appeal: please send me a copy of the procedure which you follow, along with setting out what factors are taken into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments being put by yourselves on this matter in the Appeal so that I might reply to any new issues which are raised. If you decide to dismiss the appeal, please send me the full reasoning in relation to each of the specific points raised in this letter.

    4. Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘Appeals/challenges received after 28 (twenty-eight) days will not be upheld or considered unless in extreme circumstances, and at the Company’s discretion.’ Please tell me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above)?

    5. Your 'Parking Charge Notice': what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally get declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is?

    6. Your Notice mentions that 'A photograph has been taken of the vehicle for evidential value and will be stored in accordance with the Company's Data Protection procedures'. Please send me a copy of those procedures. Furthermore, pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of any such photo along with a copy of any other data which you hold relating to me.
    a; Please advise as to how you have the right to obtain my details from DVLA as you are a LTD company
    b; I will take now the opportunity of advising you of your breach of information act, been as you have sent your PCN in an open envelope which has been sent by the royal mail post and open for anyone to see and read the details of its contents especially as it has Excel Parking services Ltd.
    c; What is the relationship between ‘Vehicle Control Services Ltd’ and Excel Parking services Ltd.

    7. Please send me details of any Codes by which you claim to comply and any governing body or other such organization of which you are a member.

    8. Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

    9. For the avoidance of doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do the following:
    a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.
    b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.
    c. Send me any standard letters either from yourselves or debt-collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.


    10. If you want to make a claim , for your information you can issue online or I am sure that Sheffield County Court would also be very happy to give you a form. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:
    a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to my Defense.
    b. Please rest assured that I will be more than happy to attend any court mediation's which might be offered.


    I look forward to your earliest reply.

    Yours faithfully,



    Originally posted by Shelly 57
    Appeal denied
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
  • Coupon-mad
    Seen it before, it's from the barrister's blog or somewhere on a similar site.

    You should have asked before bothering because you have completely wasted your time. This is just a scam.

    You will still get all the letters and won't affect your credit record anyway.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • andybrock
    If your going to appeal its best to be a little clever.
    All the companies will have seen the template letter/barrister blog.
    A short appeal will do the job,its bound to be rejected but the important thing cost the parking company Ł32.

  • andybrock
    Hi, having just received a PCN from the company that runs the parking at Liverpool Airport I have responded as follows, I hope that it may help others, I am aware that I can just ignore the request for payment but did not fancy all the threatening letters and bad credit reports;-


    Originally posted by Shelly 57

    This would never happen
  • prosnap
    Congratulations on going to the top of their hit list ...


    All you have done is to show them you are treating this rubbish seriously .... You will no doubt get even more threats now.
    The word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary
    Tickets: 19 [cancelled: 18, paid: 0, pending: 1]
    PPC Appeals: 8 [accepted: 2, rejected: 5, pending: 1]
    POPLA: 4 [accepted: 4, rejected: 0, pending: 0]
  • stigg77
    Hi. I have just recieved a charge notice for dropping off on road in for 11 seconds. JOKE. did anyone here get any joy from their appeals or ignoring?
  • Stroma
    Please create your own thread instead of bumping this old one - thanks
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
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