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  • FIRST POST
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 7th Jan 13, 5:36 PM
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    zeupater
    Solar ... In the news
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 13, 5:36 PM
    Solar ... In the news 7th Jan 13 at 5:36 PM
    Hi All

    Thought it was about time we had a thread specifically to discuss relevant press articles relating to solar pv & thermal ..... so here goes ...

    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 07-01-2013 at 5:48 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
Page 101
    • theboylard
    • By theboylard 28th Sep 17, 11:55 PM
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    theboylard
    I wonder if this will lift any muck/bird poo on the panels?
    For those stubborn pigeon/seagull dumps that won't budge by jetwash alone, use new PV Poo Stop
    4kWp, SSE, 16 x 250w EcoFuture BoB with retro-fitted SolarEdge P300 optimisers & SE3500 Inverter, in occasionally sunny Corby, Northants.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 29th Sep 17, 7:40 AM
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    Martyn1981
    I wonder if this will lift any muck/bird poo on the panels?
    For those stubborn pigeon/seagull dumps that won't budge by jetwash alone, use new PV Poo Stop
    Originally posted by theboylard
    Directions:
    1. Ignite house.
    2. Ring 999.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 30th Sep 17, 10:32 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Not great news for Welsh PV, but support for marine energy is welcome.

    Welsh first minister ‘can’t see a future for solar’ within Welsh renewable electricity target

    However, speaking to Solar Power Portal at the opening of the Pen y Cymoedd onshore wind farm – the largest in Wales and home to Vattenfall’s forthcoming EFR battery project – first minster Carwyn Jones said the targets would be met with a mixture of wind, marine and some hydroelectric projects.

    Citing the cuts to and closures of subsidies paid to solar, Jones said: “At the moment I can’t see a future for solar because of the actions of the UK government, and we regret that.

    “What we need to do is encourage as many different sources of energy as possible to reach our target…and we want to see resources made available for solar. [However] the UK government just knows what it doesn’t want and not what it does want and that is bad news for energy producers at the moment. We need to see some direction from London to match the direction we have outlined here in Wales.”
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 30th Sep 17, 3:38 PM
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    zeupater
    Not great news for Welsh PV, but support for marine energy is welcome.

    Welsh first minister ‘can’t see a future for solar’ within Welsh renewable electricity target
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Hi

    Seems like a pretty odd comment for a 'first minister' to make at the opening ceremony of an on-shore wind project considering the reports of subsidy-free offshore wind and solar PV farms ...

    Simply looks like a diversionary remark aimed to take a little heat off the level of subsidies required by a couple of 'marine energy' projects much closer to the Welsh Assembly's seat of power to me ....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 3rd Oct 17, 12:21 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Interesting article looking at the role of PV and batts in Puerto Rica going forward, and wider discussion on the shift to micro-grids rather than large single grids that can go down completely.

    Hurricanes Clear The Way For Tesla To Power Puerto Rico & The Caribbean

    Time For The Microgrid Solution

    That is not to say that solar panels can’t be damaged by storms like Hurricane Irma and Maria. But a power supply structure composed of microgrids is far more resilient than a conventional grid. That’s one of the reasons Tesla is racing to complete the world’s largest battery storage facility in Australia, where freak storms toppled the towers supporting high tension power lines connecting Melbourne and Adelaide earlier this year. It also has experience powering entire islands mostly with renewable energy, albeit on a smaller scale than would be involved in Puerto Rico.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Oct 17, 7:30 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Interesting article looking at the role of PV and batts in Puerto Rica going forward, and wider discussion on the shift to micro-grids rather than large single grids that can go down completely.

    Hurricanes Clear The Way For Tesla To Power Puerto Rico & The Caribbean
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Further to this, I watched a very interesting (and short - 7mins) video on the potential to build a modern grid in Puerto Rico since the current one, which was largely defunct before the hurricane, is now in even worse shape.

    The interesting/important bit here is looking at the value of changing grids rather than trying to adapt them for renewables.

    How Tesla Could Make Puerto Rico a Shining Beacon For Renewable, Distributed Energy
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 4th Oct 17, 12:28 PM
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    NigeWick
    The interesting/important bit here is looking at the value of changing grids rather than trying to adapt them for renewables.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I think there will always be a sort of grid to allow me to supply my neighbours and local areas to supply other local areas, as well as saving some locally generated electricity to local area batteries. Then there's large scale generation to supply industrial uses.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Solar prices are just getting silly now.

    A while back a PV tender was issued at $28/MWh making it the cheapest leccy tender .... for any technology, but it was quickly beaten by a contract for $24/MWh.

    So how about $18/MWh, and part of the consortium is EDF, who besides trying to save the French nuclear industry by charging the UK a fortune for HPC, are also deploying vast amounts of PV all around the world.

    Saudi Arabia’s 300 MW solar tender may conclude with lowest bid ever
    A consortium formed by UAE-based Masdar and French energy giant EDF has offered to deploy all the tendered capacity at a LCOE of 6.697 SAR ($0.0178) per kWh. In addition, seven of the eight bids were under $0.03 per kWh. The tender’s bidders will be announced by the end of January 2018.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 6th Oct 17, 3:37 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Further to this, I watched a very interesting (and short - 7mins) video on the potential to build a modern grid in Puerto Rico since the current one, which was largely defunct before the hurricane, is now in even worse shape.

    The interesting/important bit here is looking at the value of changing grids rather than trying to adapt them for renewables.

    How Tesla Could Make Puerto Rico a Shining Beacon For Renewable, Distributed Energy
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Further to my further too ....... now Puerto Rico is chatting with Elon Musk about the potential of a RE + battery grid.

    Gotta say, did not see that coming, certainly not so soon. Perhaps Trump's 'unpleasantness' towards PR has got them thinking about fixing things properly.

    Elon Musk says he can rebuild Puerto Rico's power grid with solar

    My understanding is that PR has excellent wind resources too, so PV + wind + batts, could be interesting.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Oct 17, 1:47 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Government has announced their latest Clean Growth Strategy and completely ignored PV.

    STA accuses government of ‘artificially holding back’ solar PV

    This morning the government published its long-awaited Clean Growth Strategy featuring little in the way of solar-specific announcements. Large-scale solar was not mentioned, while the only supports for small-scale renewables on offer related to possible actions post-2019.

    This comes despite, the STA today pointed out, solar being “implicit” in many other policies set to be implemented, including those covering electric vehicle charging, public sector emissions reduction and industrial sector efficiency.

    Chris Hewett, policy manager at the STA, said it seemed “extraordinary” for the government to fail to respond to calls for a level playing field with other technologies.

    “This technology will dominate global power supply in years to come so in the interests of UK plc, the government needs to stop putting the UK solar industry at a competitive disadvantage.

    “Whether it is tax breaks for fossil fuels, a continued emphasis on big centralised power over local power, or access to auctions - solar is not being treated fairly. Solar empowers local people and communities, and it stimulates smart innovation more than any other energy technology.

    Solar again overlooked in UK’s £557m clean energy support package

    Confirmation of sizeable financial support for offshore wind, marine power, biomass CHP and energy from waste welcomed by renewable energy groups, but government’s solar blind spot continues.
    Onshore wind and solar power will once again be blocked from competing for subsidy – a fact that was met with dismay by the REA.
    The STA’s argument is that solar can deliver clean power at around £50 – £54/MWh by 2020, which would make it effectively net subsidy-free by that date – provided it gets a final push by being able to compete in the next CfD auction.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 12-10-2017 at 1:52 PM.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Oct 17, 11:18 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Cool use of PV:-

    Netherlands to install solar highway noise barriers
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 13th Oct 17, 12:25 PM
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    GreatApe
    Solar in the UK doesn't make sense to subsidise, offshore wind has a better correlation with demand and a higher more workable capacity factor

    Solar has achieved a lot it could provide 1/3rd of the annual growth in electricity needs but the real question is will governments still wish to subsidise it when it begins to saturate the grid or will they cut back like Germany had to do.

    Let people and companies install solar on their roofs without subsidy if they want to do that but dont subsidise it Martyn has proof that it can be done for $18/MWh so it doesn't need any more support especially in cloudy England
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 13th Oct 17, 2:47 PM
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    zeupater
    Solar in the UK doesn't make sense to subsidise, offshore wind has a better correlation with demand and a higher more workable capacity factor

    Solar has achieved a lot it could provide 1/3rd of the annual growth in electricity needs but the real question is will governments still wish to subsidise it when it begins to saturate the grid or will they cut back like Germany had to do.

    Let people and companies install solar on their roofs without subsidy if they want to do that but dont subsidise it Martyn has proof that it can be done for $18/MWh so it doesn't need any more support especially in cloudy England
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    Hi

    I agree that offshore wind has a supply profile which tends to generally favour winter night-time generation, but then again, solar has a profile which does the same for summer daytime, however, the majority of hours that we're normally awake are daylight hours ..

    Regarding capacity factor ... this is increasingly used as an argument for or against various forms of generation, however, whatever the capacity factor is, it's the cost/unit which is important ... if one form of generation has a 70%CF but costs 12p/kWh, is that better than another form with a 35%CF at a cost of 7p/kWh, or even another delivering at 11% but at a cost of 5p/kWh ?? ...

    Cloudy England .. this has been raised time after time in discussions, so I'll just refer to a previous discussion which contextualises PV generation differential related to latitude ..
    ... let's look at how that converts to generation potential ....

    Being areas of concentrated population and therefore demand, let's take two capital cities, one in a high latitude and the other on the equator ... say London & Kampala and see what relative generation potential is likely to be. PVGIS can act as our tool, and we can use a 1kWp array as a benchmark ... ( http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php# ) ...

    Flat (No inclination) - (L)848kWh/kWp : (K)1400kWh/kWp
    Optimised inclination - (L)38Deg : (K)0Deg
    Optimised generation - (L)1000kWh/kWp : (K)1400kWh/kWp

    So, the (your)~'60% less light' (insolation/irradiation) resolves to ~40% less generation ((848/1400)-1) on a flat plain. However, optimising the fixed inclination to reflect latitude this reduces to 28.6% less generation ((1000/1400)-1).

    Now, let's compensate for the issues of having a panel mounted flat ( pooling water, dirt/dust buildup, self cleaning etc). Allowing a shallow slope of 10degrees and say that this is west facing so as to not skew seasonal generation, we get 1380kWh/kWp in Kampala bringing the difference to 27.5% ((1000/1380)-1) ... this is representative of a direct comparison between 'real world' optimised systems ... 27.5%.

    Now, just because we can, let's compare a system on a 35Degree roofline (water runoff) in both locations. Again let's take the London orientation as south and Kampala as west to mitigate seasonal variation, we now get 1260kWh/kWp in Kampala resulting in a difference of 20.6% ((1000/1260)-1) ... of course, there's the valid argument that not all UK installations face due-south ... so let's compensate by bracketing the orientation between S/W (939kWh/kWp) giving a difference of 25.5% ((939/1260)-1) ... obviously we now can say that a 'typical' roof mounted system in a high latitude system could be expected to generate approximately 75% to 80% of what it would be expected to do if located on the equator, despite the differential in surface area insolation being considerably higher ...

    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    The issue continually raised against almost all renewable energy sources is their intermittency, however, much of that can be addressed through storage of various forms ... as for grid saturation, well that's effectively down to grid management and the ability to either store excess energy, or forcing inverters to de-rate or switch in/out in phased generation blocks through settings ....

    All is not bleak ...
    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Oct 17, 2:50 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Solar in the UK doesn't make sense to subsidise,

    Martyn has proof that it can be done for $18/MWh so it doesn't need any more support especially in cloudy England
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    Where do I say that UK solar can generate for $18/MWh?

    As UK PV is cheaper than UK off-shore wind, why not support PV?

    As off-shore wind alone, is not a solution to our leccy/energy needs, why would you hamstring it by removing the other parts necessary to create a viable renewables mix?
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 16th Oct 17, 4:07 PM
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    GreatApe
    As UK PV is cheaper than UK off-shore wind, why not support PV?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Probably because I do not believe that statement to be true.
    Solar in the UK has too low a CF which means it can do less before it needs mass storage which will add more cost.

    As off-shore wind alone, is not a solution to our leccy/energy needs, why would you hamstring it by removing the other parts necessary to create a viable renewables mix?
    Solar power takes up too much land and industrializes the countryside.

    I have no problem with people putting them on their roofs, you keep telling me how cheap it is now so presumably we both agree no need for subsidy let the people put it on their roofs with their own money.

    Offshore wind has high CF and reasonable seasonal correlation with seasonal demand.
    We could go to 60% offshore wind with the remaining 40% a combination of CCGT/Rooftop-Solar/UK-Nuclear/Interconnector-imports (mostly Franch nuclear)
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 16th Oct 17, 4:14 PM
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    • 1,343 Thanks
    GreatApe
    Hi

    I agree that offshore wind has a supply profile which tends to generally favour winter night-time generation, but then again, solar has a profile which does the same for summer daytime, however, the majority of hours that we're normally awake are daylight hours ..

    Regarding capacity factor ... this is increasingly used as an argument for or against various forms of generation, however, whatever the capacity factor is, it's the cost/unit which is important ... if one form of generation has a 70%CF but costs 12p/kWh, is that better than another form with a 35%CF at a cost of 7p/kWh, or even another delivering at 11% but at a cost of 5p/kWh ?? ...

    Cloudy England .. this has been raised time after time in discussions, so I'll just refer to a previous discussion which contextualises PV generation differential related to latitude ..


    The issue continually raised against almost all renewable energy sources is their intermittency, however, much of that can be addressed through storage of various forms ... as for grid saturation, well that's effectively down to grid management and the ability to either store excess energy, or forcing inverters to de-rate or switch in/out in phased generation blocks through settings ....

    All is not bleak ...
    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater

    Mass battery storage does not exist, and it makes sense to allocate batteries to vehicles before you use then for stationary storage of excess wind/solar. Other ideas like excess wind to power aluminium smelters only when the wind blows to to do electricity to nat gas conversion are so stupid i dont even need to comment on them

    Solar is silly for the UK because it is purely fuel displacement
    Its great for countries which where both solar output and electricity demand match, often hot countries with AC demand. There solar is both fuel displacement and to a large extend power station displacement too.

    Anyone who wants to place PV on their roofs with their own pockets more power to you. Martyn has proven time and again here that solar is cheap and will just get cheaper no need to throw more money at solar when the NHS needs additional funding.

    Personally I think just using what we have is fine (a mix of nuclear gas and imports)
    But if the public feels we are so wealthy and have no other areas we could spend more on, like heathcare, and that the most pressing need is decarbing the grid then offshore wind is really the only option for the uk. Be grateful for it as the country would not accept mass onshore wind and solar PV is not a solution in the uk so really it is only offshore wind or nuclear both are expensive but offshore wind probably less so
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 16th Oct 17, 5:26 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Probably because I do not believe that statement to be true.
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    No links, references or costs to support your opinion? Have you herd about some PV farms going subsidy free now thanks to PPA's and batteries?


    Solar power takes up too much land and industrializes the countryside.
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    Personally I'd install it demand side on rooves, no problem getting 60-80GWp on rooves and carparks, so 20% of UK leccy demand. But just to place your 'dramatic' statement in context, and as a thought exercise - to build enough PV farms to generate the equivalent of a UK years leccy demand, you'd have to cover approx 2% of England in 15% efficient panels. Currently about 2% of England is covered in golf courses, driving ranges etc.


    Offshore wind has high CF and reasonable seasonal correlation with seasonal demand.
    We could go to 60% offshore wind with the remaining 40% a combination of CCGT/Rooftop-Solar/UK-Nuclear/Interconnector-imports (mostly Franch nuclear)
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    Sounds good to me, though 50% off-shore wind may be the technical limit, depends how much the cost of floating WT's falls.

    But if you are willing to go that far, why not push more CCGT off the grid with on-shore wind, tidal (stream and lagoon) and hopefully wave power too. Perhaps 40% off-shore wind, 30% on-shore wind, 20% PV, 10% tidal, 10% bio-energy, 2% hydro plus storage and interconnectors and CCGT with bio-gas. [Yes I know it's more than 100% but some spill and storage losses will occur.]
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 16th Oct 17, 5:36 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Personally I think just using what we have is fine (a mix of nuclear gas and imports)
    But if the public feels we are so wealthy and have no other areas we could spend more on, like heathcare, and that the most pressing need is decarbing the grid then offshore wind is really the only option for the uk. Be grateful for it as the country would not accept mass onshore wind and solar PV is not a solution in the uk so really it is only offshore wind or nuclear both are expensive but offshore wind probably less so
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    But PV, on-shore wind, and now off-shore wind are all cheaper than nuclear and gas, so why spend your money on them instead of healthcare? And why spend NHS money on imports when we have plenty of wind, sun and tides of our own?

    The public don't have a problem with on-shore wind, take a look at the 22 quarterly public attitude surveys. Support for on-shore wind is 73% with opposition of 9%.

    This has risen over the 5yrs (of the surveys) from 66% support and 12% opposition. So contrary to your claims, not only do the public support on-shore wind, but their support has grown, and opposition fallen across the time period that on-shore wind has impacted us, both visually and financially. So all looks good to me, when you look at the facts.

    BTW nuclear has 35% support and 21% opposition, hardly a ringing endorsement, unlike on-shore wind.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Oct 17, 9:56 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Note - this article talks about installed capacity, not generation, and of course solar has a low capacity factor (output v's capacity rating) than most other sources of generation.

    Solar power a clear leader, IEA report finds

    For the first time ever, there were more grid additions from solar power than another other type of fuel, the International Energy Agency said Wednesday.

    IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol said that, by 2022, renewables in general will equal about half the global capacity for coal power and its solar energy in particular that's leading the way.

    "What we are witnessing is the birth of a new era in solar PV [systems]," he said in a statement. "We expect that solar PV capacity growth will be higher than any other renewable technology through 2022."

    A previous report from the IEA estimated the cost of utility-scale solar power projects has declined by about 60 percent since 2011 and could drop another 25 percent by 2021. In response, investments in solar photovoltaic systems increased 20 percent last year.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 17th Oct 17, 10:49 AM
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    NigeWick
    Solar power takes up too much land and industrializes the countryside.

    I have no problem with people putting them on their roofs,
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    Rooves are the obvious answer to solar placement. Retrofit to all reasonable sites and legislate for all new builds to be oriented for best results, and, have battery storage installed at the same time.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
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