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  • FIRST POST
    miss dolittle
    Parking Control Management (UK)Ltd. Ticketed in my own space!!!!
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 13, 8:53 PM
    Parking Control Management (UK)Ltd. Ticketed in my own space!!!! 5th Jan 13 at 8:53 PM
    I live in a apartment complex where each flat is allocated a parking space, this is part of the leasehold agreement. In November PCM took over the management of our carpark. We do not have a huge problem with illegal parking but it was still felt necessary that we needed a company to patrol.

    Anyway, I digress from the issue at hand. Yesterday I found a parking ticket on my car. I was parked in my own space and not over any lines, however, my laminated parking permit unbeknownst to me had slipped from my dash out of view.

    As soon as I had the chance I rang PCM and explained the situation, it was a genuine mistake, it is my space as per terms of my lease, my permit number is blah. The guy on the end of the phone was very unhelpful and basically said it's tough, the signs are there I should have displayed my permit. I told him that there was no way I was paying a 60 fine, rising to 100 after 14 days without payment. I expected the guy to say, Ok I can sort that out for you I can see how these things happen. I certainly did not expect the response that I got.

    Basically I have been advised not to pay the ticket and ignore all correspondence from them. Can anyone advise me on what likely steps PCM will take against me if any. Can I really be expected to have to pay a fine for parking in my own space?! Would a Court come down on my side?

    I am going to speak to my management committee and suggest that we terminate our arrangement with PCM as residents do just not need this hassle.

    I look forward to hearing people's advice.
Page 1
  • bondy lad
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:03 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:03 PM
    here you go,,ready,, you have recieved a FAKE ticket/invoice,,it purely impersanates the real thing,,, real=PENALTY charge notice,,,you do not have this,,,,FAKE=PARKING charge notice,,oh yes, you do have this,,now what to,,,when you run short of loo paper, when you have finished on said loo,,,,,,,,,you know the rest now,,ignore, nothing can/will happen as a result,all this shower want from you and anyone is your hard earned cash,,keep it,, now relax, feet up,jobs a belter aint it.
  • SodG24
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:05 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:05 PM
    Firstly ignore the "ticket" ( and it's not ILLEGAL parking !!!!! ). Thy have no right to get any money out of you.

    If, and they don't, they have any right then all they could do it ask you for loses they incurred. YOU effectively OWN the space so how could PCM have incurred any loses ? They couldn't.

    Secondly, ignore anything you get from PCM - it's not legal and they can't take you to court.

    Finally, you need to kick your managing agents where it hurts. Your lease won't say anything about permits being required and so they and PCM are acting illegally. You should TELL them ( not request ) that the space is yours as per your lease, your lease does NOT require you to display a permit and so PCM nor the managing agent have not right to even enter your parking space let alone to touch your car or even issue a "parking ticket". Tell them you explicitly reject joining the parking scheme and will hold both them and PCM liable for trespass into your parking space should they issue another "ticket" against your car.

    By law it is YOUR parking space and what you park in it, when you park in it and how you manage it is YOUR choice and nobody else's.
    • Kite2010
    • By Kite2010 5th Jan 13, 9:37 PM
    • 3,917 Posts
    • 3,315 Thanks
    Kite2010
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:37 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 13, 9:37 PM
    The landowner (yourself until the lease expires) has suffered no damages by you parking in that spot

    Ignore the PPC, that is what you get when they are invited in to "manage" car-parks, they go after the genuine residents
  • ValHaller
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 13, 10:31 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 13, 10:31 PM
    Your right to park derives from the leasehold agreement. Not from display of a parking permit.

    So look at it this way. You don't have to display the permit - in that respect it is not really even a permit, since it does not permit you to do anything you could not do anyway.

    And you certainly don't have to ring them or write to them to plead to have the ticket lifted. As much as you might do is to ring them and tell them that the ticket they put on your car is a dud - and only to save them the bother of wasting effort on pursuing you. But don't bother if they are going to be rude.

    They certainly could try taking you to court, but your defence in response to court papers is quite simply "I was parking my car in a space allocated to me under rights granted in my lease". With that defence, PCM could onlly make themselves look foolish if they pressed the matter to a hearing.
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 6th Jan 13, 12:17 AM
    • 7,923 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 13, 12:17 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 13, 12:17 AM
    Another way to look at this is when or if they apply for RK details from the dvla it will show you living in your apartment, which means you have the right to park there. Which ultimately means that this fake ticket is an illegal contractual penalty.

    And as been said there is no loss. So it will never ever go to court. Not that these scum bags have ever been there. They cannot clamp or tow you so there is nothing they can do to hamper your enjoyment of the said bit of land.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
  • ManxRed
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 13, 12:17 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 13, 12:17 AM
    Only the landowner/occupier can bring a legal claim for trespass.

    That's you.

    Unless you feel like sueing yourself there's not a lot PCM or the Management Company can do.

    Write the Management Co. a letter stating that the PPC is trespassing on your land, and that your lease - which trumps any signs or any other directives - does not require you to display a permit to park on your own land, and that you herewith withdraw any implied access to your land to the Management Co., their agents, employees, and subcontractors.
    Je Suis Cecil.
  • Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 13, 1:19 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 13, 1:19 AM

    I am going to speak to my management committee and suggest that we terminate our arrangement with PCM as residents do just not need this hassle.

    I look forward to hearing people's advice.
    Originally posted by miss dolittle

    Good, that is the RIGHT answer! You wasted your time with the phone call.

    You don't need this shower on site and did you know YOU can opt out of the permit scheme as PCM are trespassing on your space each time otherwise. Why not opt out and effectively forbid PCM from 'patrolling' your bay?

    You are not alone, here's some similar threads from here before:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+site%3Aforums.moneysavingexpert.com+PCM+ticket +parked+in+own+flat+space

    ...and here's a similar live search from pepipoo forums too, more cases:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+site%3Aforums.pepipoo.com+PCM+ticket+parked+in +own+flat+space

    Don't worry a jot - private clamping and towing is now illegal so PCM (UK) Ltd have had to turn to dodgy ticketing - and you would win if they were daft enough to try a Small Claim. There will be NO repercussions.

    However, as well as the 'ignore' option, there is a new appeals procedure now which costs the scammer money and is ONLY binding on them. As you have the right to park there the 'permit scheme' is just a pointless moneyspinner. I would want to draw this scam to POPLA's attention if it were me.

    I would appeal and then appeal to POPLA (if you are in England/Wales), see this thread & website info which explains it. This is a good way to fight back against this con:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4263959


    HTH
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • miss dolittle
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 13, 9:14 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 13, 9:14 AM
    Thanks for the replies. Has made me a bit more confident about not paying this fine.

    The one useful thing that did come out of my phone call with pcm was that they did tell me that I could opt out of the scheme so my spaces would not be patrolled. I have given instructions to my management company to this effect and by 11th of Jan I will be free.

    I was surprised that we were not told of this option before pcm took over
  • prowla
    It is not a fine.

    In fairness to the management company, they are trying to protect your parking space and stop other people parking there.

    However, in contracting the parking company, they have got in bed with some rather unscrupulous people. Of course the person on the phone said "tough" - they are there to ensure revenue.

    But you've already paid for the space, so they cannot charge you for it again.

    The issue with you opting your space out is that they will not then be able to harass anybody else who uses it.

    You wouldn't want to find yourself in a situation where somebody started using your space and then you had to go to them for help.
  • muckybutt
    Seeing as this is your space and you have a permit then I would appeal it to popla, it'll cost them for their own balls up and the INVOICE will get cancelled.

    Then set about getting them kicked out of the car park.
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • ginnersinner
    Only the landowner/occupier can bring a legal claim for trespass.

    That's you.

    Unless you feel like sueing yourself there's not a lot PCM or the Management Company can do.

    Write the Management Co. a letter stating that the PPC is trespassing on your land, and that your lease - which trumps any signs or any other directives - does not require you to display a permit to park on your own land, and that you herewith withdraw any implied access to your land to the Management Co., their agents, employees, and subcontractors.
    Originally posted by ManxRed
    Or, you could send a letter reminding the parking company of that fact, and tell them to forward any damages they are successful in winning to said landowner, namely you! You could tie them up in all sorts of knots with letters requesting that they sue you (trespasser) on your (landowner's) behalf, letters from you to you requesting more details of the case, etc etc. At court it would be great, you'd be running from side to side as you instruct your representatives as to how to question you. And at the end of it all they'd get nothing and have spent a fortune in legal costs!


    2010 Wins

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  • The Slithy Tove
    Thanks for the replies. Has made me a bit more confident about not paying this fine.

    The one useful thing that did come out of my phone call with pcm was that they did tell me that I could opt out of the scheme so my spaces would not be patrolled. I have given instructions to my management company to this effect and by 11th of Jan I will be free.

    I was surprised that we were not told of this option before pcm took over
    Originally posted by miss dolittle
    It's not and never was a fine! Do not call it so, as that adds some legitimacy to what was an unenforceable scrap of paper.

    Now you understand, as well as expressing your extreme displeasure with the management company, make sure all your neigbours know about this scam, too. None of them must make the mistake in taking PCM seriously and parting with any money.

    Oh, why the 11th for being "free" of them. You don't need to give notice more than "from this moment". Just park without a permit from now on. PCM can go swivel.
  • spacey2012
    What did you think would happen when you all welcomed them in to "patrol" the car park.
    Sorry, but you lay with dogs, you get fleas.
  • Fergie76
    Another way to look at this is when or if they apply for RK details from the dvla it will show you living in your apartment, which means you have the right to park there. Which ultimately means that this fake ticket is an illegal contractual penalty.

    And as been said there is no loss. So it will never ever go to court. Not that these scum bags have ever been there. They cannot clamp or tow you so there is nothing they can do to hamper your enjoyment of the said bit of land.
    Originally posted by Stroma
    Surely for it to be deemed a contractual penalty, you would need to have formed a contract?

    IMO, this is just purely a speculative invoice, which has not basis.

    When the OP withdraws from the scheme, has it ever been known for a PPC to purposely park in someone's space, to try and create a problem that is not there? Kind of a told you so...
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