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Attendance Allowance
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# 1
shellieboo
Old 05-01-2013, 5:56 PM
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Default Attendance Allowance

Hi I hope I am at the right place to ask this question.

I'm a 66 year old woman and I seem to have got myself into a right pickle.

Up until when I was 65 I used to have DLA at the higher for mobility and middle for care.I had that since 1993 and had quite a few reviews until 2005 when they gave them to me indefinitely.
I honestly believed that when you get to 65 you can't have DLA and must claim Attendance Allowance instead
I checked it out with the jobcentre and they said that DLA is for under 65's and Attendance Allowance for over 65's.
So I telephoned and wrote to Blackpool telling them that I wanted to change. They sent me a form to fill in which I sent back with a letter saying that Attendance Allowance is what I want to claim.
I filled out a AA1 I think it was called. They refused the claim so I appealed. I went to court last November and they said I couldn't have it either. The judge asked me why I had applied for it so I told him. He said I should have not cancelled the DLA claim??????
The short and long of all of this is that the DWP told the court and had all my letters that I said that I didn't want DLA anymore.

I sent reports from the physio and the lady that comes round from Social Services to make sure I'm alright and she is the one that said I needed all of the equipment they put in for me.
When I told her what happened she said that the DWP would use me telling them that I didn't want DLA anymore against me.
Apart from having to fill out another form and sending in the same evidence what else can I do? Surely the DWP can't hold me giving up my DLA against me as I am severely disabled and have been for many years.
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# 2
kazzah60
Old 06-01-2013, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieboo View Post
Hi I hope I am at the right place to ask this question.

I'm a 66 year old woman and I seem to have got myself into a right pickle.

Up until when I was 65 I used to have DLA at the higher for mobility and middle for care.I had that since 1993 and had quite a few reviews until 2005 when they gave them to me indefinitely.
I honestly believed that when you get to 65 you can't have DLA and must claim Attendance Allowance instead
I checked it out with the jobcentre and they said that DLA is for under 65's and Attendance Allowance for over 65's.
So I telephoned and wrote to Blackpool telling them that I wanted to change. They sent me a form to fill in which I sent back with a letter saying that Attendance Allowance is what I want to claim.
I filled out a AA1 I think it was called. They refused the claim so I appealed. I went to court last November and they said I couldn't have it either. The judge asked me why I had applied for it so I told him. He said I should have not cancelled the DLA claim??????
The short and long of all of this is that the DWP told the court and had all my letters that I said that I didn't want DLA anymore.

I sent reports from the physio and the lady that comes round from Social Services to make sure I'm alright and she is the one that said I needed all of the equipment they put in for me.
When I told her what happened she said that the DWP would use me telling them that I didn't want DLA anymore against me.
Apart from having to fill out another form and sending in the same evidence what else can I do? Surely the DWP can't hold me giving up my DLA against me as I am severely disabled and have been for many years.

sadly you have shot yourself in the foot- what you possibly should have done was PHONE the DWP DLA line and check with them before cancelling the claim - as I understand it your payments would have continued exactly as they had been when you were 65 and the only difference between the two benefits is that you can only make a claim for Attendance Allowance after the age of 65 and not DLA - and also that mobility component cannot be claimed if you are over 65

I think the ONLY recourse you have now is to submit a fresh claim for Attendance Allowance with all your supporting evidence and hope for the best - I have had this conversation with my brother who was also under the impression that his DLA stops when he is 65 - it IS confusing - but in the future try and ask advice before contacting the relevent authorities.
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# 3
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 1:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazzah60 View Post
sadly you have shot yourself in the foot- what you possibly should have done was PHONE the DWP DLA line and check with them before cancelling the claim - as I understand it your payments would have continued exactly as they had been when you were 65 and the only difference between the two benefits is that you can only make a claim for Attendance Allowance after the age of 65 and not DLA - and also that mobility component cannot be claimed if you are over 65

I think the ONLY recourse you have now is to submit a fresh claim for Attendance Allowance with all your supporting evidence and hope for the best - I have had this conversation with my brother who was also under the impression that his DLA stops when he is 65 - it IS confusing - but in the future try and ask advice before contacting the relevent authorities.
Ta, well all I can say is that I did contact the government office, the jobcentre in town and asked if my thinking was right.
They are the same people aren't they?

It seems that I have caused a problem, but to be honest for what is involved moneywise between the two, I only stand to lose £50 a week if I get the allowance which I think I can cope with by cutting back a bit.

What annoys me is that they are using my request to close the DLA claim down as evidence that I no longer have any mobility or care needs based on the letter I sent the DLA form back with after I telephoned them. They can't understand what I have done and can't understand how I can go from having needs for DLA, then having none, then having them again within weeks.

I'll put another claim in then and try and explain it a bit better to them.
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# 4
Miss Havisham
Old 06-01-2013, 1:33 AM
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surely they can see and understand that you made a mistake only because you didn't know what is meant to happen when you reach 65. Ask them to reinstate you. I suppose I'm being naive here that it will be this simple but it's worth asking.

Good luck.

Miss H
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# 5
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Havisham View Post
surely they can see and understand that you made a mistake only because you didn't know what is meant to happen when you reach 65. Ask them to reinstate you. I suppose I'm being naive here that it will be this simple but it's worth asking.

Good luck.

Miss H
Ta, I did that after the government refused to give me the allowance. I asked them to give me back what I had and to forget the allowance claim. They said that it was my choice if I wanted to carry on with DLA or give it up and claim the allowance.I told them that there was no choice in it as far as I believed, you had to move over when you became 65.
The jobcentre told me as well when I asked them.
Anyhow they said no, and said that I made the decision which turned out to be the wrong one.
They did say that if I can prove that the somebody at the jobcentre told me to change then they would think about it again, but doubted that I could prove that even if it did happen.
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# 6
kazzah60
Old 06-01-2013, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieboo View Post
Ta, well all I can say is that I did contact the government office, the jobcentre in town and asked if my thinking was right.
They are the same people aren't they?

It seems that I have caused a problem, but to be honest for what is involved moneywise between the two, I only stand to lose £50 a week if I get the allowance which I think I can cope with by cutting back a bit.

What annoys me is that they are using my request to close the DLA claim down as evidence that I no longer have any mobility or care needs based on the letter I sent the DLA form back with after I telephoned them. They can't understand what I have done and can't understand how I can go from having needs for DLA, then having none, then having them again within weeks.

I'll put another claim in then and try and explain it a bit better to them.

unfortunately they AREN'T the same department - I totally agree with you that the information they give should be the same and 100% correct- but sadly this just isn't the case.

of course what they have done is morally wrong- but this Government is committed to getting people off benefits - and no-one in the DWP is going to be reprimanded because they followed your instructions - just a stab in the dark but when you wrote to DWP DLA did you by ANY chance state in your letter that you were closing the claim because you thought you needed to be on AA ?

if you did and you can obtain a copy of the letter it MIGHT just stand you in some good stead with your new claim.
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# 7
zzzLazyDaisy
Old 06-01-2013, 1:55 PM
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Or that you had been advised by the job centre that you had to close your claim as you had reached 65?

Or did you say something like 'as I have now reached 65yrs I understand that I am no longer eligible for DLA so I am writing to close my claim'

Anything like this *might* help your case as it would have been clear to the decision maker that you did not understand the rules for getting DLA.
I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.

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# 8
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 3:32 PM
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Ta, if you dont mind Ill reply to both those letters as they are asking the same thing.

I have just gone into my documents file on this laptop and had a look at what I said.

Quote:

Dear Sir

Now that I will be 65 next month my DLA claim will cease. I have spoken to my local jobcentre office who have confirmed that. I am returning the DLA form you recently sent me after we spoke on the telephone as you seem to have missed what I said. I told you I will be 65 shortly and need to get in a claim for Attendance Allowance before then so that my money doesnt change or get stopped. The jobcentre told me that I cant have both claims going at the same time.

I have spoken to the helpline and they are sending me a Attendance Allowance claim form out in the post. So please close my DLA claim on the 18th as my birthday is on the 19th.


Yours faithfully



Mrs S Jones
This is the letter that they used in my appeal papers that the judge said he didn't believe that I just wanted to change. He said that it "looked like that I had reported an improvement, cancelled my DLA quite correctly, then realised that I had made a mistake".
He also said that he didnt believe that my care needs had started up again he was "more inclined to think that I was attempting to regain my entitlement after realising what I had done".
The judge sent me a two page letter explaining why he decided it like he did. Reading it makes me out to be someone that would do and say anything in order to get a benefit award and that my statements in the claim from were all not true.

Last edited by shellieboo; 06-01-2013 at 3:45 PM.
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# 9
rogerblack
Old 06-01-2013, 4:17 PM
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In principle, you can appeal to the upper tribunal.
This would generally require advice.

There are several problems.
Firstly - the staff at the JCP are not in the same department that decides DLA.
Misadvice by them may not amount to error that means the decision by the DLA people to terminate your claim is incorrect.

The phrasing of your letter is somewhat unfortunate, and can be read as if you wish to terminate your claim - especially if it's only skimmed.

"Now that I will be 65 next month my DLA claim will cease" - will cease can also mean that you wish it to cease.
The second paragraph would alone mean that you wish the DLA claim to stop.

It does not seem an irrational decision to close your DLA claim on receipt of this letter.

Is it arguable that they should have investigated, and found out your fundamental misunderstanding - certainly.

The letter can certainly be read as if your condition has changed, and you need to claim AA on a different basis.

You would need to get your DLA reinstated to appeal to the upper tribunal, and for them to overturn the termination of your claim, on the basis that the original decisionmaker should have realised you ad made a mistake, and contacted you.

This is going to be a real stretch.

Any award of AA can't take into account mobility problems, as you probably now realise.
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# 10
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerblack View Post
In principle, you can appeal to the upper tribunal.
This would generally require advice.

There are several problems.
Firstly - the staff at the JCP are not in the same department that decides DLA.
Misadvice by them may not amount to error that means the decision by the DLA people to terminate your claim is incorrect.

The phrasing of your letter is somewhat unfortunate, and can be read as if you wish to terminate your claim - especially if it's only skimmed.

"Now that I will be 65 next month my DLA claim will cease" - will cease can also mean that you wish it to cease.
The second paragraph would alone mean that you wish the DLA claim to stop.

It does not seem an irrational decision to close your DLA claim on receipt of this letter.

Is it arguable that they should have investigated, and found out your fundamental misunderstanding - certainly.

The letter can certainly be read as if your condition has changed, and you need to claim AA on a different basis.

You would need to get your DLA reinstated to appeal to the upper tribunal, and for them to overturn the termination of your claim, on the basis that the original decisionmaker should have realised you ad made a mistake, and contacted you.

This is going to be a real stretch.

Any award of AA can't take into account mobility problems, as you probably now realise.
Ta, you make it sound that you have to be a solicitor or something when dealing with these people. Im not, Im just an ordinary lady that tried to do the right thing. How would I know who works for who, they are all about benefits. Of course I wanted the DLA claim to cease because the jobcentre said that I can't have both at the same time and the allowance is for when you get to 65.
No one told me that I could keep it going as I have now found out. And my illnesses havent changed.
So because I am not clever enough to understand all of the ins and outs and I thought that I asked the right people I am the one to suffer,
They wont restart my DLA they told me that it was my fault for closing it, the words were ' you silly fool'.
I understand that the migh mobility has gone but I should still get the middle care. Then why are the government trying to make it difficult for me, nothing has changed why are they saying that they believe my letter means that I dont have any needs anymore and that I am trying to con someone.

Oh this is impossible. You ask advice from the government and they give you a load of rubbish and if you follow it it is my fault.

If you are not very clever how are people supposed to know what you can do and what you cant and what not and what to put in letters and how to word them.

What a country.

While im on here does anyone know how this pension credit works. We have a payment from them but it seems very low compared to what our friends are getting. I had a look at it again over Christmas with our friends and it seems to say that for the past 6 years or so I have been getting a state pension. The only state pension we are getting is from my husband who is 69. I don't get one. According to my friend they say that I have a weekly old age pension of £73.20 a week on top of my husband's which I dont get. Have they got confused with my husbands pension? I tried ringing them a while back, when they promised to ring me back so I left it. I never got a call.

Last edited by shellieboo; 06-01-2013 at 4:46 PM.
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# 11
Torry Quine
Old 06-01-2013, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieboo View Post
Ta, you make it sound that you have to be a solicitor or something when dealing with these people. Im not, Im just an ordinary lady that tried to do the right thing. How would I know who works for who, they are all about benefits. Of course I wanted the DLA claim to cease because the jobcentre said that I can't have both at the same time and the allowance is for when you get to 65.
No one told me that I could keep it going as I have now found out. And my illnesses havent changed.
So because I am not clever enough to understand all of the ins and outs and I thought that I asked the right people I am the one to suffer,
They wont restart my DLA they told me that it was my fault for closing it, the words were ' you silly fool'.
I understand that the migh mobility has gone but I should still get the middle care. Then why are the government trying to make it difficult for me, nothing has changed why are they saying that they believe my letter means that I dont have any needs anymore and that I am trying to con someone.

Oh this is impossible. You ask advice from the government and they give you a load of rubbish and if you follow it it is my fault.

If you are not very clever how are people supposed to know what you can do and what you cant and what not and what to put in letters and how to word them.

What a country.

While im on here does anyone know how this pension credit works. We have a payment from them but it seems very low compared to what our friends are getting. I had a look at it again over Christmas with our friends and it seems to say that for the past 6 years or so I have been getting a state pension. The only state pension we are getting is from my husband who is 69. I don't get one. According to my friend they say that I have a weekly old age pension of £73.20 a week on top of my husband's which I dont get. Have they got confused with my husbands pension? I tried ringing them a while back, when they promised to ring me back so I left it. I never got a call.
Why don't you get a state pension as at 66 you should be getting one?
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# 12
zzzLazyDaisy
Old 06-01-2013, 5:24 PM
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It depends on whether you paid enough NI contributions during your working life to get a state pension in your own right.

Many women of your age paid only the 'married womans' stamp, many only worked part-time with a wage below the thresh-hold, and many simply didn't work. Those women are classed as dependents and their husband gets a 'couple's pension' which includes the wife's pension.

So depending on your working history, it is quite possible that you do not qualify for a state pension in your own name. But this does not mean you don't get a pension as it will be rolled into your husband's pension. The down side is that the addition for the dependent wife may be quite a bit less than if you got a state pension in your own right - but as you are getting pension credit top-up the over-all figures may not be that different.
I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.

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# 13
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 06-01-2013, 6:31 PM
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DLA / AA

You have indeed 'shot yourself in the foot', the only recourse would be UT and that would be as others have said close to impossible to prove. Progressing it if that's your wish will certainly require intervention from a practising welfare appeal specialist sooner rather than later.

MRC @ £51.58pw & HRM @ £54.05pw is £105.63pw
HRAA @ £77.45pw or £51.85 for LRAA
I assume if you are ever awarded AA it will be LRAA not HRAA .. .. that's a £53.87 loss per week of income.

Pension Credit

You qualified for SPA after 6 April 2010, so Read this and get back with more personal information such as does your husband get the full BSP or is it reduced or deferred ? and have you tried to claim a BSP based on your husband's NI contributions, or is he paid extra on his pension already because you did not have enough 'stamps' and are financially dependent on him.

In short a lot of what you are asking, depends not on your own personal information which you have written here, but on your husbands financial status and personal information, to include private as well as state pension [s]. These quantities of income determine which components of PC are awarded ie, the 'Guarantee Credit' and the 'Savings Credit' element. The guaranteed element is usually paid because you and your partner have a joint weekly income of below £217.90.
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# 14
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torry Quine View Post
Why don't you get a state pension as at 66 you should be getting one?
Ta, should I. I dont know. I dont get anything anymore, my only incime before was the DLA.
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# 15
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzLazyDaisy View Post
It depends on whether you paid enough NI contributions during your working life to get a state pension in your own right.

Many women of your age paid only the 'married womans' stamp, many only worked part-time with a wage below the thresh-hold, and many simply didn't work. Those women are classed as dependents and their husband gets a 'couple's pension' which includes the wife's pension.

So depending on your working history, it is quite possible that you do not qualify for a state pension in your own name. But this does not mean you don't get a pension as it will be rolled into your husband's pension. The down side is that the addition for the dependent wife may be quite a bit less than if you got a state pension in your own right - but as you are getting pension credit top-up the over-all figures may not be that different.
Ta, I did work in my earlier years but I dont know what stamp I paid, it was all deducted before I saw it.
That is how I read it, that getting pension credit makes up the difference. But the difference seems a lot less than what my friends do who are in similar circumstances. I just dont understand it all.
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# 16
Torry Quine
Old 06-01-2013, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieboo View Post
Ta, should I. I dont know. I dont get anything anymore, my only incime before was the DLA.
If you have insufficient NI contributions of your own then yes you would still be entitled to 60% of the pension from your husband's contributions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shellieboo View Post
Ta, I did work in my earlier years but I dont know what stamp I paid, it was all deducted before I saw it.
That is how I read it, that getting pension credit makes up the difference. But the difference seems a lot less than what my friends do who are in similar circumstances. I just dont understand it all.
Yes as pension credit is a means tested benefit on household income then any pension you recieve would be taken into account. However it would mean that you would have income in your own name. Without knowing the exact circumstances of your friends it's impossible to tell whether you should get what they get. When you reached pension age weren't you contacted by the DWP about your pension? I think a full check-up of your and your husbands entitlement would be a good idea/
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# 17
flossy_splodge
Old 06-01-2013, 8:40 PM
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Thumbs up pension forecast service

Have you contacted the pensions service to ask for a projection of your state pension? use https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-statement

Don't ask 'am I entitled to one', rather ask 'How much am I entitled to'?
It is really important to be careful how you word things.
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# 18
bryanb
Old 06-01-2013, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzLazyDaisy View Post
But this does not mean you don't get a pension as it will be rolled into your husband's pension. .
A persons pension is not rolled into husbands these days. Perhaps you are thinking about the "Adult dependent allowance" which can no longer be claimed but will remain for those already drawing it.
To be absolutely clear her pension (based on husband's or even ex-husband's contributions) is always paid to her directly.
This is an open forum, anyone can post and I just did !
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# 19
shellieboo
Old 06-01-2013, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-from-the-Boro View Post
DLA / AA

You have indeed 'shot yourself in the foot', the only recourse would be UT and that would be as others have said close to impossible to prove. Progressing it if that's your wish will certainly require intervention from a practising welfare appeal specialist sooner rather than later.

MRC @ £51.58pw & HRM @ £54.05pw is £105.63pw
HRAA @ £77.45pw or £51.85 for LRAA
I assume if you are ever awarded AA it will be LRAA not HRAA .. .. that's a £53.87 loss per week of income.

Pension Credit

You qualified for SPA after 6 April 2010, so get back with more personal information such as does your husband get the full BSP or is it reduced or deferred ? and have you tried to claim a BSP based on your husband's NI contributions, or is he paid extra on his pension already because you did not have enough 'stamps' and are financially dependent on him.

In short a lot of what you are asking, depends not on your own personal information which you have written here, but on your husbands financial status and personal information, to include private as well as state pension [s]. These quantities of income determine which components of PC are awarded ie, the 'Guarantee Credit' and the 'Savings Credit' element. The guaranteed element is usually paid because you and your partner have a joint weekly income of below £217.90.

Ta, yes that is what I managed to work out as well. At the moment I am down by just over a £100 a week and they reduced my husband's pension credit by another £32 a week. Lost £132 a week.
I am hoping that they will give me the allowance of £50 and give back the £32 to my husband. Its a lot to lose just heard about the £32 this weekend. All because I just followed what the jobcentre told me.

Ta for the details on pension credit. I dont understand what all them letters mean. I dont get any state pension, I never have, my husband does. I did work fulltime from 1961 to 1968 before I brought the first two children up between 1968 and 1979 then went back partime from 1979 until 1980 when I stopped altogether to have the twins in 1980. I retired at 60 in 2006.
The pension credit form I have here that came yeserday shows this
Standard Rate £217.90

Husband SRP £123.86
Annuity £9.55

Less notional SRP wife £73.20

Pension Credit Guarantee due £11.29 per week.

It used to be £43.89 a week

Looks like we are going to have to live on £144.70 a week until I can get the allowance paid to me.

Last edited by shellieboo; 06-01-2013 at 9:00 PM.
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bryanb
Old 06-01-2013, 9:04 PM
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Shellieboo - Phone the DWP and claim your state pension!
This is an open forum, anyone can post and I just did !
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