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    • tripled
    • By tripled 24th Apr 07, 2:47 PM
    • 2,295 Posts
    • 922 Thanks
    tripled
    • #2
    • 24th Apr 07, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Apr 07, 2:47 PM
    Tariffs with a standing charge mean you pay a flat rate charge for the supply as well as for the power you use. Tariffs without a standing charge instead usually build the cost into the unit rate instead instead of neing seperate on your bill, so you pay extra for the first bit of power you use until the standing charge is recouped then the same rate as everyone else. Only Ebico has a true no standing charge tariff where there is one flat rate.

    Basically, unless you are a very low user or your property is frequently vacant for extended periods then it doesn't make much difference.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 24th Apr 07, 4:20 PM
    • 5,796 Posts
    • 3,437 Thanks
    Ken68
    • #3
    • 24th Apr 07, 4:20 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Apr 07, 4:20 PM
    With all the complaints against the bigger companies, it won't be long before all tariffs are EBICO style.
  • BexTech
    • #4
    • 25th Apr 07, 2:20 AM
    • #4
    • 25th Apr 07, 2:20 AM
    As said above for most people they work out the same.

    However for us the no standing charge is ideal, as we do spend a lot of time away for extended periods.
    It's PAC not PAC Code, it's MAC not MAC Code, it's PIN not PIN Number, it's ATM not ATM Machine, it's LCD not LCD Display, it's DVD not DVD disc... It's no one not noone, It's a lot not alot, It's got not gotten... Panini is the plural of panino - there is no S!!
    (OK my English isn't great, the sciences, maths & IT are my strong points!)
  • Cardew
    • #5
    • 25th Apr 07, 7:48 AM
    • #5
    • 25th Apr 07, 7:48 AM
    However for us the no standing charge is ideal, as we do spend a lot of time away for extended periods.
    Originally posted by BexTech
    Likewise for myself with a little used annex.

    The majority of people with gas do not use Economy 7 electricity. However some who do, simply switch off the gas boiler and pilot light for the summer months and heat water with their immersion heater at E7 rates.
  • Krad
    • #6
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:12 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:12 PM
    So would it be better on a standing charge if you spend a lot on electricity?
  • Vestra
    • #7
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:27 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:27 PM
    Doesn't really make a difference once you use the first tier units.
  • KimYeovil
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:31 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:31 PM
    So would it be better on a standing charge if you spend a lot on electricity?
    Originally posted by Krad
    No. It is the same (within pennies) with most suppliers. There is no advantage to taking a tariff with a standing charge. Unless you never go on holiday you will lose out.

    (Usual caveat - this is where tariffs are offered with a no standing charge and no standing charge options. There may well be separate tariffs only available with a standing charge that are cheaper.)
  • KimYeovil
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:37 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Jul 09, 5:37 PM
    With all the complaints against the bigger companies, it won't be long before all tariffs are EBICO style.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Surely the noises issuing from authorities suggest that it is Ebico's tariff with its Tier 1-only prices that will be banned? They are more obfuscatory than others.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 4th Jul 09, 9:00 AM
    • 5,796 Posts
    • 3,437 Thanks
    Ken68
    It's more likely, Kim, that standing charges will be banned, after all what other trade has them showing.
    It's an anomaly of the energy companies and smacks of collusion in the first place.
    Don't think BG et al will be phased if it goes against them, they will just call it something different or invent new contracts.
  • Cardew
    It's more likely, Kim, that standing charges will be banned, after all what other trade has them showing.
    It's an anomaly of the energy companies and smacks of collusion in the first place.
    Don't think BG et al will be phased if it goes against them, they will just call it something different or invent new contracts.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Ken,
    There are 'standing charges' for all manner of services.

    You pay a standing charge for water and sewerage.

    You pay a 'standing charge' for your telephone - called line rental!

    You often pay a 'delivery charge' for goods.

    It costs £xx for a company to supply gas and electricity to any property before anything is used.

    Much as we all admire the ethos of Ebico, those with higher consumption provide a cross-subsidy to low users.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 4th Jul 09, 11:57 AM
    • 5,796 Posts
    • 3,437 Thanks
    Ken68
    You could be right Cardew, but sad that so many consumers, especially older folk find the whole billing system of the energy customer so confusing.
    Time to simplify whatever.
    PS....the biggest 'hidden' cost is the comparison sites, NEEDED, to make sense of it all. Think of the millions saved if bills were unit costed.
    Last edited by Ken68; 04-07-2009 at 12:03 PM.
  • Arran83
    I am sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but rather that than create a new one with the same questions...

    So I am a single man, I have just bought my first 2 bed apartment, it is a new build with an Energy Rating of B...
    It is also a 1st floor so I have an apartment below me, and one above me... So hoping for some residual heat coming through....

    I am well up for seeing how little I can spend on utilities and everything else, infact I love the challenge of reducing as far as I can... I have been brought up in a large house where the boiler has never been man enough to heat the place fully, and would always take 3 hours to get anywhere close...

    So I have learnt to put on an extra layer, and I have a bit of a threshold for the cold...

    So I will only ever be using the heating when I REALLY need to, and as for electricity I intend to use as little of that as possible...

    So would I be better of going for a tariff with a standing charge but less pennies for the units... Or would I be better off going for something without the standing charge but more pennies per unit? From what I have read in this thread I may be better of without a standing charge but I'd love some reassurance if possible...

    Thanks
  • KimYeovil
    [...]
    So would I be better of going for a tariff with a standing charge but less pennies for the units... Or would I be better off going for something without the standing charge but more pennies per unit? From what I have read in this thread I may be better of without a standing charge but I'd love some reassurance if possible...

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Arran83
    You have misread. The preference for a two-tier no standing charge tariff is only when choosing between the no standing charge and the daily standing charge versions of the SAME tariff from the SAME supplier.

    When deciding between two different tariffs from the same supplier or between tariffs from different suppliers the SC /NSC is irrelevant - some very cheap tariffs are available in only a standing charge version and this could still work out cheaper.
  • Arran83
    Oh right I see,

    I think I have misunderstood the billing in its entirety...

    I thought the the 1st tier was what you'd pay until you'd used a certain amount, and then it'd switch to the 2nd tier.. So you'd be paying, what you wouldn't have paid in standing charge with the 1st tier's unit cost... I am new to all of this

    So now I definitely don't know who to go for, it is really a toss up between Npower and Scottish Power... Scottish Power at least allow me to put in an address if their system can't find it via postcode, Npower don't seem to allow it so I'd have to ring and possibly lose the cashback opportunity from Quidco...
  • KimYeovil
    I think I have misunderstood the billing in its entirety...

    I thought the the 1st tier was what you'd pay until you'd used a certain amount, and then it'd switch to the 2nd tier.. So you'd be paying, what you wouldn't have paid in standing charge with the 1st tier's unit cost... I am new to all of this
    Originally posted by Arran83
    No, that is entirely correct. And the tier 1 cap resets each quarter - unused tier 1 units will not be added to next quarter's bill.

    What you are not understanding is the difference between COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tariffs. I repeat - with the standing charge and no standing charge versions of the SAME tariff you should choose the no standing charge version. When comparing COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tariffs all hats are up in the air - a standing charge tariff can be cheaper.
    Last edited by KimYeovil; 28-02-2010 at 11:36 AM.
  • frugalmacdugal
    Hi,

    no standing charge is ideal if you have a holiday house in the Highlands, and only use it about 3 weeks a year,
    Y'all take care now.
  • Arran83
    Thank you both,

    I understand now
  • markharding557
    Surely the noises issuing from authorities suggest that it is Ebico's tariff with its Tier 1-only prices that will be banned? They are more obfuscatory than others.
    Originally posted by KimYeovil
    How is one simple unit charge obfuscatory?
    This is much simpler to understand than tariffs where you have different rates,in some cases seasonal adjustments and various discounts to be applied.

    So i would say it is many of the other tariffs which seek to confuse the consumer
  • KimYeovil
    Most suppliers charge a capped flat rate standing charge of between £102 and £175 per year dual fuel.

    Ebico charges uncapped unlimited standing charges - about £430 per year for the average consumer.

    Are Ebico upfront with this standing charge? No, they obfuscate it with their 'equitable' pricing. And their advocates make nonsensical claims about there being no standing charges - they have the most expensive standing charges of any supplier.
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