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  • pogofish
    • #2
    • 19th Dec 12, 1:30 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Dec 12, 1:30 PM
    You/your passenger should read the handbook that comes with theBB, or check the issuer's website!

    It makes it quite clear that the BB scheme does not apply on private property and as you have made Meadowhall aware of your needing a "reasonable adjustment" for your disabled passenger, you have more than done the needfull by the Equality Act - which is what applies here.

    You should not contact PCM or respond to any follow-up letters from anyone (except properly issued court papers which are very unlikely!), which will simply be an attempt to scam/scare you into paying an illegal and unenforcable charge. If you want to do more, taking an action against Meadowhall for a breach of the Equality Act should be your next consideration.

    And if you have a shufty in the Letter Chain threads or search this forum, you will find more info to set you at ease - I've seen Meadowhall's name come-up here before.
    Last edited by pogofish; 19-12-2012 at 1:34 PM.
  • ManxRed
    • #3
    • 19th Dec 12, 2:14 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Dec 12, 2:14 PM
    Just in case you're wondering, these companies are known to rock cars to get permits to slip down the dashboard. They make more money that way.

    Go with pogofish's advice above.
    Je Suis Deirdre.
  • Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:05 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:05 PM
    Thirded!

    You could sue Meadowhall for an Equality Act breach, if the debt collector letter-chain is tiresome. See the 5th from top thread, look at the PRE-OCT letters shown there.

    No disabled person has to show a Blue Badge on private land - a 'disabled bay' is simply a provision under the Act which has to be made available to anyone with the need to park there, that need being caused by their medical condition which falls within the definition of disability. Basically anyone with a BB does fit in that definition, as do plenty of people WITHOUT a BB, that's why we hate it when some people wrongly think all cars in such spaces need to be displaying a BB. NOT ON PRIVATE LAND THEY DON'T, DESPITE WHAT ANY SIGNS MAY SAY!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-12-2012 at 5:07 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • Buzby
    • #5
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:41 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:41 PM
    However - how do you expect them to keep disabled spaces free for use by legitimate users if you are so scathing of their attempts to do this? There is no discrimination - so any action would fail. Further, whilst unfortunate, it is reasonable to expect he user to at lease ensure he BB is visible before departing, rather than assuming it is.

    At least MH are doing something to keep these spaces clear - it will shortly become law here in Scotland and no doubt E&W will follow - and yes, this IS for private parking.
  • Paperbird
    • #6
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:48 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Dec 12, 5:48 PM
    Have they changed the signs at Meadowhell. they used to only say cars without a BB would be clamped.
  • Stroma
    • #7
    • 19th Dec 12, 6:12 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Dec 12, 6:12 PM
    However - how do you expect them to keep disabled spaces free for use by legitimate users if you are so scathing of their attempts to do this? There is no discrimination - so any action would fail. Further, whilst unfortunate, it is reasonable to expect he user to at lease ensure he BB is visible before departing, rather than assuming it is.

    At least MH are doing something to keep these spaces clear - it will shortly become law here in Scotland and no doubt E&W will follow - and yes, this IS for private parking.
    Originally posted by Buzby
    They have no legal right to offer parking in the first place, the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land, no matter how you twist it the bb scheme does not apply. It's their problem how they keep spaces clear, people parking there must take responsibility for this, they must decide if they need to use these spaces !

    Now tell me how are a parking company operative is qualified to determine if someone meets the definition of being disabled under the equalities act ? What right have they to say that someone can't park there? These people are customers they spend money in a shop, disabled parking bays on private land is a courtesy and not based in statute.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
  • pogofish
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 12, 9:26 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 12, 9:26 PM
    At least MH are doing something to keep these spaces clear - it will shortly become law here in Scotland and no doubt E&W will follow - and yes, this IS for private parking.
    Originally posted by Buzby
    What Scottish law is this then? Link please.

    And for England and Wales, the only law change on the cards is something similar to Scotland's DPPA, which has been a near total failure in the private retail/general context, with maybe a whole two or three store car parks being made compliant with the Act - although it has proved more effective in the private residential context.

    And stores spend millions on developing their "customer experience" so its not a great leap of the imagination to assume that they have all the legal and practical consultative resources to work out how to manage disabled parking legally and effectively. And practically, its not that difficult - I've found few problems since becoming disabled, and so far reasonable adjustments have always been given when I need them, so other forms of private parking seems to manage just fine!

    And TBH, trying to defend the current situation where PPCs use illegal and unenforcable penalties and scare tactics to screw money out of one of the most vulnerable sections of society is just idiotic, or worse!
    Last edited by pogofish; 19-12-2012 at 9:28 PM.
  • trisontana
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 12, 10:55 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 12, 10:55 PM
    That law in Scotland came into force at least three years ago (Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Act 2009). Under it a landowner or PPC can invite the council to take over the running and policing of disabled parking bays in private car parks. It appears that the take-up has been very low as the PPCs don't want to lose this cash cow.

    This just shows that the whole PPC business model is all about making money and not about regulating disabled parking bays.
    Last edited by trisontana; 19-12-2012 at 11:00 PM.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • Coupon-mad
    However - how do you expect them to keep disabled spaces free for use by legitimate users if you are so scathing of their attempts to do this?
    Originally posted by Buzby

    Same way that any service has to make any provision for its disabled customers or service users. There is no simple 'Blue Badge scheme' anywhere else in life!

    Take the example of the wheelchairs that large Supermarkets have and will dish out to those people who have need for them.

    A staff member will provide one when asked, and sometimes when it's busy - shock horror - all of them are already in use. That may mean the Supermarket needs to provide more if it's a regular occurrence. But, equally, it may just be a fact that sometimes/rarely, they are all in use. Like disabled bays, sometimes all are busy. That does not necessarily mean that some people using them (bays or wheelchairs) are taking the mickey/lazy!

    And with the wheelchairs, they would not leave them out loose with the trolleys for anyone to use and abuse - nope, they have staff members who are responsible for overseeing them without a Spanish Inquisition about whether the person needs it! But no-one gets 'fined' for using one just because they have the wrong kind of disability (no Blue Badge!)...or parked badly in the bread aisle...or presented their credit card the wrong way up...
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-01-2013 at 6:53 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • paddocklane
    Thanks everyone for the information you have passed on to me. I see the best option is to ignore the ticket. Will keep you up todate with any further details
  • mazza111
    That law in Scotland came into force at least three years ago (Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Act 2009). Under it a landowner or PPC can invite the council to take over the running and policing of disabled parking bays in private car parks. It appears that the take-up has been very low as the PPCs don't want to lose this cash cow.

    This just shows that the whole PPC business model is all about making money and not about regulating disabled parking bays.
    Originally posted by trisontana

    I posted about this a while ago, the local bobbies were in Tesco(Scotland), booking people without badges in disabled spaces. And the ones on the double yellow lines outside the cash machines. While I'm all for people being stopped from parking in disabled bays when they shouldn't be parked there, I don't want to see PPC's making money from it.
    4 Stones and 0 pounds or 25.4kg lighter
  • Half_way
    I posted about this a while ago, the local bobbies were in Tesco(Scotland), booking people without badges in disabled spaces. And the ones on the double yellow lines outside the cash machines. While I'm all for people being stopped from parking in disabled bays when they shouldn't be parked there, I don't want to see PPC's making money from it.
    Originally posted by mazza111

    Does the Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Act 2009 also extend to coloured lines/road markings on private land as well?
  • Coupon-mad
    No I don't think so. Those lines, on private car parks/private entrance roads still mean nowt.

    And how could the Council possibly enforce on private 'double yellows' when they KNOW that a person can park there if disabled?
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • pogofish
    Does the Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Act 2009 also extend to coloured lines/road markings on private land as well?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    Quite a few Scottish retail parks are still owned by local councils, with parking and access roads part of the legal provision, so this could be the case here. Others may also still be owned by a council but with parking and factoring contracted out to a private operator and no legal enforcement.

    However they are selling them off at quite a rate. My area got shot of their retail parks a few years back and only retained a few industrial parks - That was when PPCs really got a foothold.
  • mazza111
    Does the Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Act 2009 also extend to coloured lines/road markings on private land as well?
    Originally posted by Half_way

    No idea, it wasn't those with badges displayed that got ticketed. There aren't any signs to actually say it's private property so I imagine it's still owned by the council if the police were allowed to enter and issue tickets.
    4 Stones and 0 pounds or 25.4kg lighter
  • Happychappy
    Just in case you're wondering, these companies are known to rock cars to get permits to slip down the dashboard. They make more money that way.

    Go with pogofish's advice above.
    Originally posted by ManxRed
    Are you real Or just paranoid
  • Coupon-mad
    It was certainly he case that clampers used to rock cars to dislodge permits, or take photos at bad angles to make the permit look unreadable. Any excuse when they could charge hundreds in cash every time and the motorist was pretty much stuffed.

    CRIMS.

    And a lot of ex-clamper firms are now fake PCN 'ticketers' so I am sure it still happens.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

  • ManxRed
    Are you real Or just paranoid
    Originally posted by Happychappy
    I'm real. And so is the statement I posted.
    Je Suis Deirdre.
  • Happychappy
    I'm real. And so is the statement I posted.
    Originally posted by ManxRed
    So why would the alleged lying criminals who allegedly work at Meadowhall who could see a blue badge on the dashboard, go to the trouble of rocking the car till it falls off the dash?

    surely these alleged lying criminals will just issue an invoice and lie that the badge was never displayed sometimes pub talk and myth turns to paranoia. Do you also believe Elvis is on the moon working in a chip shop, reckon I heard that one last night in a pub, so must be true
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