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    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 9th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Is anyone investing in Ablrates new portfolio loans and any thoughts on these?

    I have invested £500 so far and thinking to invest some more, interested if others have. Also when single loans are dry, I would like to reinvest interest into the portfolio loan.

    Thanks
    • msallen
    • By msallen 10th Feb 18, 5:06 AM
    • 711 Posts
    • 705 Thanks
    msallen
    Is anyone investing in Ablrates new portfolio loans and any thoughts on these?

    I have invested £500 so far and thinking to invest some more, interested if others have. Also when single loans are dry, I would like to reinvest interest into the portfolio loan.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Not as yet because the first portfolio is to a single company which I already have loans to (at a higher rate).

    When the existing loans repay later this year then this particular portfolio will just be another loan to diversify in alongside their standard loans (albeit at a lower rate). Future single company portfolio loans will be the same.

    Multi-company portfolio loans, when they start, may be of interest as a "ready diversified" option, and they will also include an element of protection from default via Ablrate giving up some of their profit on them.

    In general I am not overly enthused by these portfolio loans, but they have a place.
  • jamesd
    I'm not really sure of how this particular structuring of portfolio loans makes sense:

    Low rate and large size both tend to lead to delays getting money out. Lack of premiums and discounts does as well. If it's used as a short term money park where's the half million or million Pounds needed to let people withdraw when an attractive new loan arrives going to come from?

    Not going to get any of my money. It looks like a low rate liquidity trap.
    • firestone
    • By firestone 10th Feb 18, 11:02 AM
    • 146 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    firestone
    I'm not really sure of how this particular structuring of portfolio loans makes sense:

    Low rate and large size both tend to lead to delays getting money out. Lack of premiums and discounts does as well. If it's used as a short term money park where's the half million or million Pounds needed to let people withdraw when an attractive new loan arrives going to come from?

    Not going to get any of my money. It looks like a low rate liquidity trap.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    i am a bit confused by this product/loan as although this loan has not completed people on the P2P indie forum are saying they have already taken money out as a test and had one days interest paid as well.So would seem there is some liquidity at the moment as it looks like new sales are coming from resells first (i think)
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Feb 18, 11:38 AM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Interesting to read the replies on the portfolio loan. James interesting your thoughts as well as I know from your posts you have invested a lot in Ablrate and like the platform as well.

    I was looking forward to the portfolio loan going live and peoples opinions on it, I like Ablrate so far as well. I know the rate is not as attractive as the other single loans, but was hoping it could have a solid place as a long term hold on the platform for some funds.

    I have £500 in it so far, I was wondering when loans repaid when fresh loans are slow could this be a good place to at least invest repayment interest.

    I think I will not put any more in at the moment and treat it like a loan along with the rest. I am not an expert on the structure by any means of the portfolio but understand it is still a portfolio from one company, but if those with more knowledge thought it was a solid structure, even with the lower 8% rate, I would of added a bit more idle cash.

    James, with the recent stockmarket movements are you still investing as heavy in P2P or are you diveresting a bit more back to the stockmarket?

    Much appreciated the feedback.

    Thanks.
  • jamesd
    hoping it could have a solid place as a long term hold on the platform for some funds. ...I was wondering when loans repaid when fresh loans are slow could this be a good place to at least invest repayment interest.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Why? It's usually easy to buy on the secondary market and get a higher effective interest yield. Not so if everyone was doing it, perhaps, but it is today.

    I like the idea of easily liquidity but I don't see how this delivers enough of it to meet the demand when a new loan comes along. If MTF has drawn and lent say 1.5 million with 100k in the queue for the next tranche, how do people get out say 750k they want to invest in a new loan? That's the sort of answer I need.

    At one point I had around 25k in loans to MTF and I like their onward lending model on invoice finance. If I thought the product could deliver liquidity I'd be happy to use them.

    with the recent stockmarket movements are you still investing as heavy in P2P or are you diveresting a bit more back to the stockmarket?
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Not as much as I want in P2P yet and I sold about 20% of my equity holdings on Monday, about 10% of my total investments. I'm looking for a far deeper drop before going the other way and at the moment we're still potentially in catch a falling knife territory. There's clearly significant buying demand but I wouldn't be positioned as I want to be for a possible bigger drop if I went back in.

    What I might do is place some short financial spread bets with guaranteed stop-loss as further downside protection.

    Guaranteed because in market conditions like this prices can gap a lot lower or higher overnight or even during the trading day and cause the stop-loss to be missed or carried out at a very different price. Say you bought short at 100p with a stop-loss at 105p and the market went up to 110p overnight. A non-guaranteed stop-loss could only be executed at 110 but with a guaranteed one you'd get the 105.

    All of my equities other than VCTs are in pensions so this has the potential advantage of taking losses inside a pension and profits outside, effectively extracting money from the pension.

    Financial spread bets are a high risk product with the potential to lose more money than your initial investment. What I just described, though, was how to use them to reduce your overall potential loss.
    Last edited by jamesd; 11-02-2018 at 11:26 AM.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 10th Feb 18, 5:36 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheShape
    meluket, stop spamming the boards with referrals. There's a referrals board for referral offers. All posts reported.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Feb 18, 10:44 PM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Why? It's usually easy to buy on the secondary market ang get a higher effective interest yield. Not so if everyone was doing it, perhaps, but it is today.

    I like the idea of easily liquidity but I don't see how this delivers enough of it to meet the demand when a new loan comes along. If MTF has drawn and lent say 1.5 million with 100k in the queue for the next tranche, how do people get out say 750k they want to invest in a new loan? That's the sort of answer I need.

    At one point I had around 25k in loans to MTF and I like their onward lending model on invoice finance. If I thought the product could deliver liquidity I'd be happy to use them.

    Not as much as I want in P2P yet and I sold about 20% of my equity holdings on Monday, about 10% of my total investments. I'm looking for a far deeper drop before going the other way and at the moment we're still potentially in catch a falling knife territory. There's clearly significant buying demand but I wouldn't be positioned as I want to be for a possible bigger drop if I went back in.

    What I might do is place some short financial spread bets with guaranteed stop-loss as further downside protection.

    Guaranteed because in market conditions like this prices can gap a lot lower or higher overnight or even during the trading day and cause the stop-loss to be missed or carried out at a very different price. Say you bought short at 100p with a stop-loss at 105p and the market went up to 110p overnight. A non-guaranteed stop-loss could only be executed at 110 but with a guaranteed one you'd get the 105.

    All of my equities other than VCTs are in pensions so this has the potential advantage of taking losses inside a pension and profits outside, effectively extracting money from the pension.

    Financial spread bets are a high risk product with the potential to lose more money than your initial investment. What I just described, though, was how to use them to reduce your overall potential loss.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Thanks James always great to read your thoughts - very valid point on the secondary market, at the moment it has been easy to buy on Ablrates secondary market, which has been great and I have been using my interest repayments between loans to do this. I can always try and draw down the portfolio loan if needs be, I have been given second thoughts on increasing what I have already put in. I understand your point on the liquidity of the portfolio loans.

    At the moment Albrate is still my favourite platform out of what I hold. I try to balance between P2P and S&S with new money going in. Recent loan offerings in MT and Collateral which I did not fancy slowed my P2P pace down a bit, what is your thoughts on these platforms at present? that is interesting you are still looking to increase your P2P. My overall P2P has reached £17k at present and I have started to see the return so far, hopefully that continues and always looking to learn.

    The recent stock market drops I understand are not extremely deep to go back in heavily, really only going back to prices of a few months ago. I am building some cash as well on the side to use for any larger drops, but balancing investing regular between S&S and P2P.

    The spread betting is something a bit beyond me, bit too complicated being honest for my stage of investing. I have took the buy and hold approach with my equities and drip feeding but I read with interest what you have decribed.

    Thanks again James, great input and I appreciate it.
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 10-02-2018 at 10:48 PM.
    • economic
    • By economic 10th Feb 18, 11:37 PM
    • 2,697 Posts
    • 1,431 Thanks
    economic
    im looking to exit from P2P slowly. I figure that the next recession in the UK is within 2-3 years away. Itll probably take a year to derisk from everything (some loans would have to be sold for a small cost) by which time i think the risks of a recession occurring would have increased. increase in defaults should happen prior to actual recession anyway.

    Remember P2P has not been tested in a recession. I imagine many of the loans i own are at serious risk of default if a recession were to occur. P2P is not a long term investment - its highly cyclical + it can be argued its good now given low rates. Worse then the stock market as there is a much higher risk of permanent loss. Which is why i will invest the money in stocks instead.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 11th Feb 18, 12:31 AM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    im looking to exit from P2P slowly. I figure that the next recession in the UK is within 2-3 years away. Itll probably take a year to derisk from everything (some loans would have to be sold for a small cost) by which time i think the risks of a recession occurring would have increased. increase in defaults should happen prior to actual recession anyway.

    Remember P2P has not been tested in a recession. I imagine many of the loans i own are at serious risk of default if a recession were to occur. P2P is not a long term investment - its highly cyclical + it can be argued its good now given low rates. Worse then the stock market as there is a much higher risk of permanent loss. Which is why i will invest the money in stocks instead.
    Originally posted by economic
    Interesting various thoughts on P2P at the moment. I did slow down my input over recent months, the quality of some loans were not as good I thought compared to earlier last year. A few are in default still, but at the moment overall it has returned well. Would you feel you want to 100% exit P2P?

    I have a much higher investment overall in stocks than P2P but my P2P balance has grown. I was withdrawing some money from Moneything and Colateral recently on repayments and those went into stocks as little of interest was around.

    Which platforms are you invested in?

    It is hard to know which direction the UK is headed, but most P2P platforms have not seen a recession thats true. My first P2P was when Zopa started with smaller amounts.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 11th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    • 4,186 Posts
    • 3,689 Thanks
    grey gym sock
    What I might do is place some short financial spread bets with guaranteed stop-loss as further downside protection.

    All of my equities other than VCTs are in pensions so this has the potential advantage of taking losses inside a pension and profits outside, effectively extracting money from the pension.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    and if it goes the other way, it has the potential disadvantage of effectively putting extra money into the pension without getting any tax relief on it.

    so i don't think there's any tax advantage to this.

    if you want to reduce exposure to shares, you could just sell some shares in the pension. now, i realize the effect is not exactly the same as using this spread bet. but why do you favour the spread bet (other than tax reasons)?

    IMHO, if in doubt, it's always best to go with the simpler approach. which usually means not using spread bets.
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 11th Feb 18, 11:40 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    glad to see this thread is active again.

    i too have pulled out more than 10% of my p2p investments this month, albeit not because of higher risk with the market correction, but rather i wanted to diversify more.
    • economic
    • By economic 11th Feb 18, 11:59 PM
    • 2,697 Posts
    • 1,431 Thanks
    economic
    i think its a good idea to be mindful of the next recession and to have a plan to exit P2P. P2P imo is not a long term form of investing. Highly cyclical, very new, thus best to derisk well in advance of a recession. better to be safe then sorry.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Feb 18, 12:21 AM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    i think its a good idea to be mindful of the next recession and to have a plan to exit P2P. P2P imo is not a long term form of investing. Highly cyclical, very new, thus best to derisk well in advance of a recession. better to be safe then sorry.
    Originally posted by economic
    I checked my P2P total amounts across my platforms today and I have just tipped the 17k at £17,100 odd at present and I updated my P2P spreadsheet.

    I understand about being mindful of the next recession, guessing when to time that would maybe be hard to know. While invested in P2P I think it is important to spread platforms and spread loans, which I have tried my best to do.

    I see my stock market investments for life so looking very long term with these investments.

    With P2P being new and things may change, for the good or worse, when you say you don't see it as a long term investment, would you consider it even medium term over the next 5 years or see yourself anyway invested in P2P beyond that as an overall portfolio?

    I do like the concept of P2P lending and some of the platforms so far have been very good with their approach in dealing with investors and listening to them and it is important to try and pick the right platforms to invest with and still spread around.

    I feel I would like to have P2P as part of my overall portfolio in years to come, but will be monitoring it at the same time while keeping my stock market investments up and cash levels for what I need them at.

    It is good as newcomer said to see this thread more active again.
    • economic
    • By economic 12th Feb 18, 12:28 AM
    • 2,697 Posts
    • 1,431 Thanks
    economic
    I checked my P2P total amounts across my platforms today and I have just tipped the 17k at £17,100 odd at present and I updated my P2P spreadsheet.

    I understand about being mindful of the next recession, guessing when to time that would maybe be hard to know. While invested in P2P I think it is important to spread platforms and spread loans, which I have tried my best to do.

    I see my stock market investments for life so looking very long term with these investments.

    With P2P being new and things may change, for the good or worse, when you say you don't see it as a long term investment, would you consider it even medium term over the next 5 years or see yourself anyway invested in P2P beyond that as an overall portfolio?

    I do like the concept of P2P lending and some of the platforms so far have been very good with their approach in dealing with investors and listening to them and it is important to try and pick the right platforms to invest with and still spread around.

    I feel I would like to have P2P as part of my overall portfolio in years to come, but will be monitoring it at the same time while keeping my stock market investments up and cash levels for what I need them at.

    It is good as newcomer said to see this thread more active again.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    I have roughly 50k (10% of overall investments) in P2P. I do not see it as any term investment. I just know i need to exit before the next recession hits. Of course no one knows when the next recession will hit. But i rather be ultra cautious then exit AFTER the event. P2P takes a whilst to liquidate and sometimes at cost if sooner. Best to plan ahead.

    Of course not all platforms have the same risk and some are riskier then others. But the ones lending to small businesses and secured against assets with "dodgy" valuations (think lendy), i would be very careful of.

    I would advice not to be addicted to the high rates of interest you get. There is a very good reason for these high rates.
    • economic
    • By economic 12th Feb 18, 12:32 AM
    • 2,697 Posts
    • 1,431 Thanks
    economic
    The way i see it is i have ramped up slowly my P2P over the last 1.5 years. I am now slowly ramping down my P2P investments. I will still be earning high rates of interest during this course of action albeit on different amounts.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Feb 18, 12:53 AM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I have roughly 50k (10% of overall investments) in P2P. I do not see it as any term investment. I just know i need to exit before the next recession hits. Of course no one knows when the next recession will hit. But i rather be ultra cautious then exit AFTER the event. P2P takes a whilst to liquidate and sometimes at cost if sooner. Best to plan ahead.

    Of course not all platforms have the same risk and some are riskier then others. But the ones lending to small businesses and secured against assets with "dodgy" valuations (think lendy), i would be very careful of.

    I would advice not to be addicted to the high rates of interest you get. There is a very good reason for these high rates.
    Originally posted by economic
    Makes sense your thoughts and 50k is a very sizeable P2P investment. I pulled out of Funding Circle last year before the changes and pulled out of Zopa.

    The higher rate platforms I am in are Ablrate, Collateral and Moneything, my investments have slowed down in Collateral due to more property and being at my limit with certain projects on going with more tranches, Moneything I withdrawn maybe £1000 from which went to stocks with repayments and no new offerings of interest came up.

    Ablrate out of those 3 has now went to my highest invested, I hope they can continue how it is going.

    The more hands off lower rate accounts I have money with is - Ratesetter, which I have not added to recently asides re-investing - Assetz Captial, I have some in their product type accounts so it is hands off but not added in a while and some in Lending Works hands off fire and forget.

    I never fancied Lendy after what I read on forums and some other platforms.

    It does take time to liquidate P2P and you are still earning rates as you drawdown.

    Your certainly right there is a reason for the higher rates and some loans over recent months I have not went into, even with the high rates and I didn't like them.

    I saw some of the loans was pulled as well from Ablrate etc when investor interest was not there. While the high rates are attactive, I am trying to be quite selective too what I invested into.

    The amounts invested do add up, I could easily hit 20k soon in P2P so I am watching things myself as well. Appreciate the post exchanges as you never stop learning
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 12-02-2018 at 1:09 AM.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 12th Feb 18, 1:01 AM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheShape
    I too have spent some time (almost exactly a year) building my p2p investments to approx £26k. This represents approx 55% of my investments although I am contributing to a DB pension so 'overall' the ratio is not as high as it appears.

    I'm at around my limit and the value has stabilised for the last two months having grown significantly each month previous.

    November was the first time I made any withdrawals from p2p when I began making some withdrawals from Moneything. There have been some repayments at Moneything and fewer attractive new loans to invest in. My holding at Moneyhting has reduced slightly from it's peak.

    I've also made my first withdrawals from Collateral in the last fortnight. Bling/pawn is my preferred asset on Collateral and with no new pawn loans for some time investors are rarely releasing any holdings to the secondary market. I'm withdrawing funds rather than leaving them un-invested waiting for bling/pawn to become available.

    Ablrate has attracted a little more investment but only roughly equivalent to the reduction in my Moneything investment. I will probably be withdrawing interest payments from Abl going forward rather than reinvesting through the SM which I have been doing until now.

    I expect that most of my interest payments for the foreseeable future will be withdrawn and will provide a portion of the funds required to fill my S&S LISA.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Feb 18, 7:22 PM
    • 481 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I too have spent some time (almost exactly a year) building my p2p investments to approx £26k. This represents approx 55% of my investments although I am contributing to a DB pension so 'overall' the ratio is not as high as it appears.

    I'm at around my limit and the value has stabilised for the last two months having grown significantly each month previous.

    November was the first time I made any withdrawals from p2p when I began making some withdrawals from Moneything. There have been some repayments at Moneything and fewer attractive new loans to invest in. My holding at Moneyhting has reduced slightly from it's peak.

    I've also made my first withdrawals from Collateral in the last fortnight. Bling/pawn is my preferred asset on Collateral and with no new pawn loans for some time investors are rarely releasing any holdings to the secondary market. I'm withdrawing funds rather than leaving them un-invested waiting for bling/pawn to become available.

    Ablrate has attracted a little more investment but only roughly equivalent to the reduction in my Moneything investment. I will probably be withdrawing interest payments from Abl going forward rather than reinvesting through the SM which I have been doing until now.

    I expect that most of my interest payments for the foreseeable future will be withdrawn and will provide a portion of the funds required to fill my S&S LISA.
    Originally posted by TheShape
    Good to read your update as well as we were investing over similar periods in P2P. I have been pondering the LISA before I pass the age you can open them, I am 38 now, I like the access the S&S ISA can give if I want to drawn anything at any point before pensions as I already have property so if I was opening an LISA it would be for retirement.

    The lack of bling on Collateral and heavy change into property and some big projects halted recent money flowing into it from me. I recall you signed up to Unbolted for bling etc following the slowdown in Collateral, how have you found it?

    I think I will still be adding to P2P at the moment but slowing the pace down from last year and be open to review things as needs be. I added to my S&S ISA today to some investments that have went down and I am adding weekly into it too drip feeding.
    • AlanP
    • By AlanP 12th Feb 18, 8:25 PM
    • 1,110 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    AlanP
    Good to read your update as well as we were investing over similar periods in P2P. I have been pondering the LISA before I pass the age you can open them, I am 38 now, I like the access the S&S ISA can give if I want to drawn anything at any point before pensions as I already have property so if I was opening an LISA it would be for retirement.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    If I were still under 40 I would open one anyway. In a few years time you might be glad of an extra home for some investments. What have you got to lose?
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