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    • badger09
    • By badger09 29th May 17, 3:58 PM
    • 5,432 Posts
    • 4,669 Thanks
    badger09
    That's an old number, there were at least 3,000 by April 2017 based on the borrower ID numbers in secondary market deal contracts. Your own borrower ID number at the top right of the screen will tell you how many joined before you but don't say what that number is. Since Ablrate started £21 million of lending has been done.

    The oldest P2P lender, Zopa, says that since 2005 £2.3 billion was lent by their 76,000 lenders.

    To put that into context, 12,900 people used Venture Capital Trust investments in the 2014-15 tax year, 44% invested no more than £10,000 and the total invested was £402 million.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I wonder how many of those 76,000 lenders are still active though. I suspect that many 'early adopters' like me, are no longer actively lending through Zopa
  • jamesd
    60,000 at the moment, though I don't know whether that includes accounts like ours that have been running down for years as the loans are repaid.

    I assume that I'll still be getting occasional payments into my account ten years from now and fifteen years after my last new loan there. Such is the nature of IVAs and other long drawn out collections for loans in arrangement or defaulted without a provision fund.

    At current interest rates there I expect that after lending for a year across all markets without Safeguard at three year term then waiting three years, the balance in defaulted or otherwise overdue loans will be similar to all of the interest paid.

    People lending with Safeguard have a much cleaner exit than without. They could really do with some cleaner way to exit a mostly run down loan book a few years after the last loan reached its term end.
    Last edited by jamesd; 29-05-2017 at 5:05 PM.
    • excelwizard
    • By excelwizard 3rd Jun 17, 10:47 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    excelwizard
    Hello all - hoping to get some advice / information on here before I ring up Collateral on Monday - I deposited some money in my collateral account with the intention to begin investing it, however changed my mind before taking the plunge and withdrew it back into my back account. Problem is - it hasn't come back into my account yet.

    I requested the withdrawal on Monday 29th which was a bank holiday so I've left it this working week for it to be processed however still no sign of it in my bank account this morning. Just wanted to know - is this normal? Does it take longer than three working days?

    Thanks!
    GOAL: Save £25,000 - current total £14,800
    Save £12k in 2017 #186 - £8,802.27 / £10,000 (end of October)
    • AlanP
    • By AlanP 3rd Jun 17, 11:02 AM
    • 967 Posts
    • 683 Thanks
    AlanP
    My withdrawals have all been actioned very quickly to be fair to Coll so not normal I would say.

    They have just changed their bank accounts over to a new provider so that may be part of the hold up.

    If you go to http://p2pindependentforum.com/board/93/collateral and ask on there the Collateral Rep may well respond although it may not be over the weekend.
    • excelwizard
    • By excelwizard 4th Jun 17, 5:10 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    excelwizard
    My withdrawals have all been actioned very quickly to be fair to Coll so not normal I would say.

    They have just changed their bank accounts over to a new provider so that may be part of the hold up.

    If you go to (URL) and ask on there the Collateral Rep may well respond although it may not be over the weekend.
    Originally posted by AlanP
    Thank you AlanP! Much appreciated - I will peruse the forum you've posted and give them a ring tomorrow. Hopefully between the two it'll get sorted - missing money makes me very anxious
    GOAL: Save £25,000 - current total £14,800
    Save £12k in 2017 #186 - £8,802.27 / £10,000 (end of October)
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 4th Jun 17, 10:05 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    FundingCircle
    Anyone else getting a lot of bad debt with this?
    My estimated return after bad debt is 6.8%, actual 3.4%. And that's half of my flagged loans being defaulted so actual is probably going to go down.
    Doesn't seem related to the loan grade (most A+).
    Most have received flags in the last couple of months so wondering if something has happened.

    One loan is partly to repay an existing FC loan which has a dubious repayment history but still has an A+ rating - unsurprisingly no repayments for this loan (don't know if the first loan was actually repaid).

    Don't know if their debt recovery process will be effective. At the moment it's about where I was hoping it would be (didn't believe their expected returns) but now I expect to make a loss on this.
  • jamesd
    Funding Circle ratings aren't particularly reliable and you're far from the only one suffering. As an initial approach to reducing your losses you might usefully consider selling your investments as they approach maturity, perhaps say a hundred days before. Maturity or just before it is the time when problems are most likely to be discovered and not a great time to be still holding the loan.

    You might also take more care over selecting which loans to be involved with. Going for that replacement loan, or keeping it if you were using automatic investing, wasn't a great move.

    Beyond that, there are alternatives out there, you're not stuck with low performers like Funding Circle.
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 5th Jun 17, 4:23 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    Bit of a flaw in the system if you lose out by keeping to maturity or by automatically picking up dubious loans.

    I have a few p to p, this is the only one that is clearly heading for failure at the moment (and was the only one that looked dubious at the outset from the estimated returns so I'm not surprised)
    I'm mainly testing their default/hands off settings.
    Last edited by charoniv; 05-06-2017 at 4:29 AM.
    • dekkard
    • By dekkard 5th Jun 17, 10:58 AM
    • 90 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    dekkard
    Funding Circle currently have just 6 loan requests showing.

    I'm new to this. Is that number not very small ?!
    • dekkard
    • By dekkard 5th Jun 17, 11:09 AM
    • 90 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    dekkard
    New Guardian article on P2P lending
    "Peer-to-peer lending promised 6%, but Iíve been left red-faced and in the red"

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/03/peer-to-peer-lending-funding-circle-promised-returns-losing-money
    • KTF
    • By KTF 5th Jun 17, 11:12 AM
    • 4,571 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    KTF
    "Peer-to-peer lending promised 6%, but Iíve been left red-faced and in the red"

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/03/peer-to-peer-lending-funding-circle-promised-returns-losing-money
    Originally posted by dekkard
    From the same article

    "He says he logged on to the Funding Circle website and followed the instructions but, unbeknown to him at the time, he had not chosen to spread his investment as much as he could. This left him vulnerable to the loss he subsequently suffered."
    • justme111
    • By justme111 5th Jun 17, 11:18 AM
    • 2,856 Posts
    • 2,745 Thanks
    justme111
    Funding Circle currently have just 6 loan requests showing.

    I'm new to this. Is that number not very small ?!
    Originally posted by dekkard
    It works. Tomorrow there may be another 6 requests and so on. There are thousands of loan parts for sale on secondary market at any given time as well. Quantity of borrowers is not the issue.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 5th Jun 17, 11:25 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    I think I will be avoiding FC! I've seen some worrying things about them on the P2P forum.

    http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/8920/expansion-growth-loan-18602-defaulted

    I understand that losses through P2P are to be expected but I would expect the platform to be more careful.
    • elephantrosie
    • By elephantrosie 6th Jun 17, 2:03 AM
    • 372 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    elephantrosie
    why would loans be at highest risk when approaching their maturity date?
    Another night of thankfulness.
    • elephantrosie
    • By elephantrosie 6th Jun 17, 2:06 AM
    • 372 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    elephantrosie
    FS and FC have high defaults.
    Another night of thankfulness.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 6th Jun 17, 7:44 AM
    • 6,899 Posts
    • 12,415 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    why would loans be at highest risk when approaching their maturity date?
    Originally posted by elephantrosie
    At the beginning of a loan you have just given the borrower a lot of cash so he's probably not going to have a problem making his first interest payment. And he might continue to make payments (or perhaps, the platform's bad debt fund might cover them).

    But when you get to the end of the term, and all of the amounts have become due - and every last penny is supposed to have been paid by the borrower - that's when you find out if he could afford to pay you the whole amount, or if not, how much he was short.

    FS and FC have high defaults.
    Originally posted by elephantrosie
    Needs some context. Compared to what places that specialise in secured lending or business lending or unsecured consumer lending get? Compared to what banks get? Compared to what wonga or payday loans places get? Compared to what other P2P platforms with exactly the same quality of loans get?
    • charoniv
    • By charoniv 6th Jun 17, 8:04 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    charoniv
    Compared to their prediction maybe?
  • jamesd
    I think I will be avoiding FC! I've seen some worrying things about them on the P2P forum.

    http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/8920/expansion-growth-loan-18602-defaulted

    I understand that losses through P2P are to be expected but I would expect the platform to be more careful.
    Originally posted by keyboardworrier
    The discussion correctly indicates what should be done. The loan description is a financial promotion by the P2P platform, which is responsible for ensuring that the description is fair, clear and not misleading. A false claim about security or guarantor assets or a guarantor without the assets to actually pay based on public records that can easily be checked doesn't comply.

    The first recourse is a formal complaint and request for redress in the form of payment of the amount that would have been recovered if the security had been accurately described. If the firm declines a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service is the next step. If the FOS orders the firm to pay they must or you can ask a court to let you enforce the FOS ruling, including by sending in bailiffs. If the P2P firm is unable to pay it may end up facing a winding up petition to shut down the firm and take its assets to pay its debts. If there is still a shortfall the FSCS does not provide protection for P2P and the remaining unpaid money is lost.

    The FOS can be contacted and asked to take a look before complaining to the firm and it can be useful in cases like this one where the result seems clear and it could avoid lots of individual complaints.

    Preserving all evidence about the original loan description then asking the FOS to take a look is the way to go, I think. Mentioning regular partial payments as an option instead of winding up the firm if it can't pay would also be sensible if it's trading profitably otherwise.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 14th Jun 17, 10:31 AM
    • 3,322 Posts
    • 5,061 Thanks
    Malthusian
    This reinforces that "secured lending" where no-one is doing basic due diligence to check that the security actually exists should be considered and treated as unsecured lending. Why should the FOS be involved? Clearly all the punters who invested in this loan should have "done their research".

    If you're going to invest in corporate lending without employing a due diligence team to do the most basic checks then this is going to happen. I was under the impression that everyone who invested in corporate loans knocked a couple of percent off their expected return to allow for this. Maybe the FOS will give you your money back, but be careful what you wish for. If you start putting in expensive complaints to the P2P platforms then they might actually decide they have no option but to start hiring professionals to do due diligence, and you aren't going to see those 10-12% headline rates any more.
    • londonlydia
    • By londonlydia 14th Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    • 422 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    londonlydia
    Hi - Question on IFISA P2P reivestments!

    I have a current IFISA with Crowd2Fund that I started this tax year. I have started to get repayments back now. Am i right in thinking that if I reinvest those returns, that those sums have to be added to the ISA allowance total? Even though it is 'recycled' money within the same tax year?
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