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    • malc_b
    • By malc_b 4th Mar 15, 11:10 AM
    • 957 Posts
    • 369 Thanks
    malc_b
    Santander have a ceiling of 25k where if below no probate. If above yes, want a probate.

    Nationwide seems to want a probate whatever the amount (£400 in my case).
    Originally posted by PennyForThem
    My experience of Santander is that they SAY they don't want probate below 25k however if you are applying for probate anyway (e.g. you need for another bank or for a house) then Santander will then require probate even under 25k.

    My tip would be to check out your local funeral services and then buy a pre-paid plan. The reason behind this is that we don't all die to schedule. My mother recently passed away and as we had some notice we had time to sort a funeral director we liked. That way we knew who to call. If someone dies suddenly who are you going to call out to take the deceased away? Just pick someone out of yellow pages with a pin? It makes sense to try to make some arrangement before hand. BTW the funeral cost would have been cheaper if we could have bought a plan now, so even without any prediction of future costs a plan saves money.
    • valydiarosada
    • By valydiarosada 10th Jan 16, 11:48 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    valydiarosada
    Number of Death Certificates Needed
    I have read through the excellent factsheet and also the posts on this forum, and I note that the factsheet suggests that one should obtain 5 copies of the death certificate, when registering a death, and posts to the forum have suggested 6 copies. The last time I acted as executor I found that 6 certificates was more than enough. However, that was 20 years ago and the posts on this forum that also advised obtaining 6 copies, were made in 2012. I was wondering therefore, whether anyone has had any more recent experience suggesting one should obtain a larger number. If so, how many death certificates should we get? My sister has an appointment tomorrow with the registrar to register the death, and her husband is firmly of the opinion that 6 is not enough. (He won't say how many, though.)

    Thank you for your help.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Jan 16, 2:41 AM
    • 37,273 Posts
    • 33,569 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    It depends. How many bank accounts / share holdings / other financial institutions are there? And how will they be notified of the death? Are the executors dealing with the estate remotely, or are they on the spot?

    I found with both Mum and Dad that I could generally take a death certificate in to any branch of any of their banks, get them to copy and certify it, and walk away with the original in my hand. Only had to post one off in a couple of cases, and they came back promptly.

    We had ten, between two executors dealing with different 'bits', and I'm sure my co-executor used more than I did, but then he was dealing with the share certificates and I was dealing with the banks! I definitely didn't need as many as five.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 2 baby jumpers, 1 shawl, 2 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, 1 baby jumper
    • valydiarosada
    • By valydiarosada 11th Jan 16, 9:15 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    valydiarosada
    Thank you. A quick supplementary, if anyone can help. Where the shares are in companies that use the same registrars, e.g. Equiniti, could I get away with sending one letter and one certificate covering all the shareholdings? Or are the registrars likely to demand an original certificate for each company's records?

    Thank you for your help.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th Jan 16, 9:33 AM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Thank you. A quick supplementary, if anyone can help. Where the shares are in companies that use the same registrars, e.g. Equiniti, could I get away with sending one letter and one certificate covering all the shareholdings? Or are the registrars likely to demand an original certificate for each company's records?

    Thank you for your help.
    Originally posted by valydiarosada
    Phone them and ask is the quickest way to find out.
    • jolizzie
    • By jolizzie 13th Oct 16, 5:56 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jolizzie
    House in children's names
    Any help advice in putting my impeding house purchase in the names of my 2 children?
    I totally trust them and don't want to see my money going to pay for any care I may need.
    Is there any tax extras for them
    Do I need to live for 7 years
    Help......
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Oct 16, 6:59 PM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Any help advice in putting my impeding house purchase in the names of my 2 children?
    I totally trust them and don't want to see my money going to pay for any care I may need.
    Is there any tax extras for them
    Do I need to live for 7 years
    Help......
    Originally posted by jolizzie
    Doing that may not avoid the house being sold to pay for care. What you are proposing may be regarded as being deprivation of assets. The other thing is since you would remain in occupation it would not reduce the value of your estate since it would be a "gift with reservation". The children would be subject to capital gains tax when they eventually sel the property.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 15th Jan 17, 8:03 PM
    • 22,022 Posts
    • 44,653 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    Reading through this thread has left me absolutely drained. Coping with the emotional aspects of death are bad enough, I couldn't bear to leave my executor / beneficiary with a financial headache to boot. My will is going to be more complicated than I had originally thought so I need to make sure everything is covered

    Just to check: can life interest gifts be made to any beneficiary? All the examples I have seen relate to spouses / tenants in common.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Jan 17, 8:42 PM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Reading through this thread has left me absolutely drained. Coping with the emotional aspects of death are bad enough, I couldn't bear to leave my executor / beneficiary with a financial headache to boot. My will is going to be more complicated than I had originally thought so I need to make sure everything is covered

    Just to check: can life interest gifts be made to any beneficiary? All the examples I have seen relate to spouses / tenants in common.
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Life interest gifts can be given to anyone but will not reduce IHT or avoid paying for care fees. You really must get paid for professional advice on this sort of thing. It is not a job for well meaning amateurs.
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 15th Jan 17, 8:53 PM
    • 2,233 Posts
    • 3,494 Thanks
    securityguy
    "You really must get paid for professional advice on this sort of thing"

    Indeed. And advice from someone disinterested who is not trying to sell you a scheme.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Jan 17, 9:00 PM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    "You really must get paid for professional advice on this sort of thing"

    Indeed. And advice from someone disinterested who is not trying to sell you a scheme.
    Originally posted by securityguy
    Go to a STEP qualified solicitor first. They should be able to save you the cost of their fees and more.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 15th Jan 17, 9:39 PM
    • 22,022 Posts
    • 44,653 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    You would have thought that death would be straightforward but it's horribly complicated. I can see why it helps to have trusted people around you.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 15th Jan 17, 10:34 PM
    • 2,233 Posts
    • 3,494 Thanks
    securityguy
    The problem with "trust" is that you are trusting the unknowable future.

    For example, a lot of IHT-avoiding schemes involve transferring, in various ways, your assets to your children. Your children may be the finest, most honest people the world has ever seen. But marriages are not always forever, and spouses are not always well chosen, and that house that you transferred to your honest, helpful child is now an asset in a contested divorce which starts with an assumption of 50:50 division.

    Other schemes involve constructing elaborate trusts, which have as their trustees some of the eventual beneficiaries of the estate, their assets some investment trusts and perhaps some IOUs from the donor, and their liabilities the obligations to the beneficiaries. Very neat. Except if the investment trusts have fallen in value at the point the donor dies, such that the trust's liabilities to the beneficiaries exceed the assets, the trustees are left personally liable for paying the beneficiaries. And if some of the beneficiaries want their money and the some of the trustees have personal assets, like houses, they had better hope they can convince the beneficiaries not to sue.

    And so on. If the scheme is risk free, then it is easy for HMRC to argue that it is a transparent tax evasion scheme. If it isn't risk free, then fine, but are you really willing to take unquantifiable risks with your assets?
    Last edited by securityguy; 16-01-2017 at 7:20 AM.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 16th Jan 17, 1:48 AM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    The old adage of "if it looks too good to be true then it probably is" comes to mind. Schemes promoted by some will writers that promise that will evade the need for care fees are a classic to avoid.
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 16th Jan 17, 7:18 AM
    • 2,233 Posts
    • 3,494 Thanks
    securityguy
    The old adage of "if it looks too good to be true then it probably is" comes to mind. Schemes promoted by some will writers that promise that will evade the need for care fees are a classic to avoid.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Indeed. IHT-avoidance schemes stand or fall on their detailed tax-planning status, and may or may not therefore mitigate tax. In general, the estate has the money and the onus is on HMRC to prove the tax bill and extract the money. You are still prey to the risks inherent in the scheme, but the scheme can be analysed to see whether it actually works or not (although of course the government can change the rules in a way which makes the scheme either ineffective or unnecessary or both).

    However for the exotic schemes to "avoid" care home fees there is the concept of deprivation of assets which does not depend on precise details of wording, as some will-writers convince their clients, but is a general principle: if it looks like DoA, it is DoA, and it is up to you to prove it isn't. And the council have the nuclear option available of simply not paying the fees: unlike in an estate where the money is in the executor account and HMRC have to find a way to take it, the LA can just not pay the fees and leave you to convince them otherwise.
    Last edited by securityguy; 16-01-2017 at 9:06 AM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Jan 17, 10:22 AM
    • 27,974 Posts
    • 16,765 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Reading through this thread has left me absolutely drained. Coping with the emotional aspects of death are bad enough, I couldn't bear to leave my executor / beneficiary with a financial headache to boot. My will is going to be more complicated than I had originally thought so I need to make sure everything is covered

    Just to check: can life interest gifts be made to any beneficiary? All the examples I have seen relate to spouses / tenants in common.
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Anyone can be left a life interest in anything.
    You have to be careful as the IHT trail is not always obvious.

    Life interest(interest in possession trusts) are nearly always assets for IHT purposes.

    One feature of spouse life interest is it is IHT exempt on your estate when creates (becoming an IHT liability on the spouse estate) but not actually owned by them for other things like care fess(a common reason to use them).

    With a non spouse life interest it uses up nil rate band and is an IHT liability on both estates

    if planning to do this before you die even more complicated.

    definitely worth some research in advance of obtaining professional advice.
    An IIP may not be the only or best option to achieve your goals.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 16th Jan 17, 8:27 PM
    • 22,022 Posts
    • 44,653 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    Anyone can be left a life interest in anything.
    You have to be careful as the IHT trail is not always obvious.

    Life interest(interest in possession trusts) are nearly always assets for IHT purposes.

    One feature of spouse life interest is it is IHT exempt on your estate when creates (becoming an IHT liability on the spouse estate) but not actually owned by them for other things like care fess(a common reason to use them).

    With a non spouse life interest it uses up nil rate band and is an IHT liability on both estates

    if planning to do this before you die even more complicated.

    definitely worth some research in advance of obtaining professional advice.
    An IIP may not be the only or best option to achieve your goals.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Funny, I struggle to trust "independent" insurance brokers from bitter experience.

    My draft will is complete and needs looking over, I've also written a letter of wishes. I just need to work out a notional IHT liability and then arrange enough life insurance to allow it to be paid out and free up my estate. Easier said than done because NRB has in no way kept up with property prices. I always thought that I wouldn't care when I'm dead but suddenly it is important that my home is passed down as a family residence rather than sold off to pay the state.

    I still feel bad for my executors but I am being as organised as I can so at least I won't be cursed after death
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 16th Jan 17, 8:44 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,533 Thanks
    troubleinparadise
    Funny, I struggle to trust "independent" insurance brokers from bitter experience.

    My draft will is complete and needs looking over, I've also written a letter of wishes. I just need to work out a notional IHT liability and then arrange enough life insurance to allow it to be paid out and free up my estate. Easier said than done because NRB has in no way kept up with property prices. I always thought that I wouldn't care when I'm dead but suddenly it is important that my home is passed down as a family residence rather than sold off to pay the state.

    I still feel bad for my executors but I am being as organised as I can so at least I won't be cursed after death
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Then leave them a sum of money in consideration for their ongoing goodwill despite the task you have left for them to do.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 16th Jan 17, 8:49 PM
    • 22,022 Posts
    • 44,653 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    Then leave them a sum of money in consideration for their ongoing goodwill despite the task you have left for them to do.
    Originally posted by troubleinparadise
    Not necessary as the main executor is also the residual benficiary.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 17th Jan 17, 12:27 PM
    • 1,857 Posts
    • 2,608 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I just need to work out a notional IHT liability and then arrange enough life insurance to allow it to be paid out and free up my estate. Easier said than done because NRB has in no way kept up with property prices. I always thought that I wouldn't care when I'm dead but suddenly it is important that my home is passed down as a family residence rather than sold off to pay the state.
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Make sure if you arrange insurance that the premiums are guaranteed for the whole of your life. Whole of life insurance has a bad reputation, partly justified, because of the number of people that do it on the cheap by taking out a policy which has a lower cost initially but where the insurer can increase the premium at its discretion at a later date (e.g. 5 years on). Inevitably as they get older the cost becomes stratospheric, so they cancel it, and they lose all their premiums plus they no longer have cover against IHT.

    Has the beneficiary told you they want to live in your house after you are gone (or are they living with you now)? I ask out of interest because people seem to decide they want their heirs to live in their "family home" far more often than the heirs do.
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