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UKPS car park in lancaster
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# 1
bertymore
Old 20-08-2012, 4:16 PM
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Default UKPS car park in lancaster

hi,

im new to this, so any help and advice would be great.

i parked my car at kings yard in lancaster, which is a car park managed by UKPS from preston.

i parked at 16.17, and paid £4. £2 to cover me until 6pm, and £2 until 8am the follwoing morning. it printed my ticket but it said paid until 02.17, instead of 8am. so i rang UKPS and was told i would be ok until 8am. i attached a note to my windscreen to this effect.

when i returned to my car at 7.45am i had a ticket, issued at 07.36am. The machine in the car park was old, and it didnt ask for any reg details at all.

i have sent UKPS a letter also.

what should my next move be if they say i have to pay?

regards,

mark
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# 2
Stephen Leak
Old 20-08-2012, 4:37 PM
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It's a scam. Of course they'll say that you have to pay. What do you expect?

What incentive is there for a private ticketing company to have the pay machines working properly? The revenue from them goes to the car park owner, not the private ticketing company. The private ticketing company gets its revenue, and the car park owner gets a cut, from the ticketed victims who pay up. To the car park owner, it looks like there's a problem with motorists not paying, which the private ticketing company is dealing with. In reality, the car park owner is also being scammed by the private ticketing company.

Only councils, the police, some train operators and Transport for London can issue legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private ticketing company can't. What they issue are “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract with a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner can claim from a driver in damages for an alleged breach of a contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and, therefore, an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can charge for parking and take alleged offenders to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is equivalent to the High Court and, therefore, its judgements set legal precedents.

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the car park owner the original charge, then you ought to write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”.

In any event, you should write to the car park owner, advising them that they’re "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the car park owner call off the private ticketing company and, maybe, also realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the private ticketing company. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off?

The private ticketing company, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually the same people, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to try and intimidate you into paying.

Continue to ignore everything you get from them. Eventually, they’ll run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

Last edited by Stephen Leak; 21-08-2012 at 1:29 AM.
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# 3
The Slithy Tove
Old 20-08-2012, 5:20 PM
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You paid what you owed for the time you parked - end of. You owe nothing more. You hae made them aware of the fact. Even if (when) they reject your appeal, as far as you're concerned, you have done all that is necessary (more so, many would say). If their machines don't work properly, that's their problem, not yours (that's assuming that the charges were what you said they were - did you double check?) Even if you got the rates wrong, all you would really owe is a couple quid to get you to 8am, not the ridiculous amoutn they are no doubt saying you owe.
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# 4
Coupon-mad
Old 20-08-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertymore View Post
hi,

im new to this, so any help and advice would be great.

i parked my car at kings yard in lancaster, which is a car park managed by UKPS from preston.

i parked at 16.17, and paid £4. £2 to cover me until 6pm, and £2 until 8am the follwoing morning. it printed my ticket but it said paid until 02.17, instead of 8am. so i rang UKPS and was told i would be ok until 8am. i attached a note to my windscreen to this effect.

when i returned to my car at 7.45am i had a ticket, issued at 07.36am. The machine in the car park was old, and it didnt ask for any reg details at all.

i have sent UKPS a letter also.

what should my next move be if they say i have to pay?

regards,

mark



Do you mean UKPC? Ignore them!

Or UKCPS? Ignore them!

It is a scam. Ignore it. THIS IS NOT A FINE.

NOTHING WILL HAPPEN, no CCJ, nothing! It's not a real PCN.


The letters the registered keeper will now receive are no biggie, just file them. They really are like phishing emails and you can see right through them when you know it's all hot air. As long as YOUR car isn't a company or hire car then it's easy for the registered keeper to ignore the letters now they (you?) know it's all a well-known con trick.

Oh and watch the Watchdog clip linked on a top sticky thread 'PPC letter chains' which is currently 2nd from the top of the forum list, only one click away - see my signature for where to click in the little blue 'breadcrumb>trail>link>' at the top of this page.

The same thread also has preview pictures of each letter so you can just play snap with them rather than actually read their debt collector baloney.

You can just tick off each matching letter against our thread. It's not difficult to play 'snap' with some junk mail you can predict!

Enjoy the Summer.



HTH
Ticket in a private car park in England/Wales?... DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT- the advice changed in 2012/13!

CLICK on '>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking>' end of the small blue 'Home>Forums>' link, top of the page, to see current threads.
Do NOT read older advice to ignore, unless it was in Scotland or NI.
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# 5
chelle79513
Old 13-12-2012, 8:42 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Default UKPS Parking Ticket

Hi
I parked in the Damside Street, Lancaster car park last night and went to the ticket machine only to find it wasn't in use. I looked around at the other cars and noticed the ones closest to me also weren't displaying a ticket and stupidly presumed that all was ok and proceeded to leave my car without a ticket. I did take a photo of the ticket machine showing the "not in use" on the display. I came back to my car later only to find a ticket for £100 reduced to £60 if I pay within 14 days. I also noted the ticket machine was still not in use. It’s as though they waited until I left as the ticket was placed on my car less that 20 minutes after I had parked there. It was then I noticed there was a Warning sign saying “please note that if the ticket machine is out of order, it does NOT give you permission to park. Any person in contravention WILL be given a parking charge notice (PCN)”. I didn’t see this when I parked the car because in all honesty I was running late and didn’t notice it but surely this is a lame get out of jail notice especially when the ticket they have given me is for not displaying a ticket. I am presuming the other cars in the same car park will also have got a parking ticket but by the time I got back to my car last night, the car park was empty.

Am I able to appeal against this as I honestly feel the fine is extortionate or just bite the bullet and pay the £60? I have never come across this before so would appreciate your advice.
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# 6
peter_the_piper
Old 13-12-2012, 9:42 AM
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Assuming this is not a council ticket then ignore and read all the previous posts for private parking.
DON'T PAY.
Sorry, normal service will be resumed shortly.
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# 7
Guys Dad
Old 13-12-2012, 9:44 AM
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Just to be 100% clear, is this a Council owned or privately owned car park? It makes a huge difference.

(Some councils contract out their parking management)
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# 8
chelle79513
Old 13-12-2012, 12:45 PM
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I am guessing it's a privately run car park but not 100% sure how I would know? The sign on the wall next to the parking machine said private property and the ticket mentions private land. If I don't pay the ticket what will happen?? Do I go down the dispute line knowing they'll pobably say no or do I go straight to the ombudsman?

Do I have a leg to stand on if I parked my car on a carpark where the ticket machine wasn't working when I parked my car or when I returned and there was a sign saying about machin being out of order is not permission to park a car?

Last edited by chelle79513; 13-12-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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# 9
SodG24
Old 13-12-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chelle79513 View Post
I am guessing it's a privately run car park but not 100% sure how I would know? The sign on the wall next to the parking machine said private property and the ticket mentions private land. If I don't pay the ticket what will happen?? Do I go down the dispute line knowing they'll pobably say no or do I go straight to the ombudsman?

Do I have a leg to stand on if I parked my car on a carpark where the ticket machine wasn't working when I parked my car or when I returned and there was a sign saying about machin being out of order is not permission to park a car?
Who does it say to pay ?
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# 10
Guys Dad
Old 13-12-2012, 12:57 PM
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Ok. You are in the same boat as anyone else who has parked on private land and an "invoice" has been stuck on your car. The advice here is to ignore all communications unless you actually receive a court summons.

If you decide to go through the appeal process, they will dismiss your appeal as the person who decides is the recipient of your cash. If you then go through the POPLA appeal, you need grounds for that appeal.

POPLA appeal process is widely discussed on other recent threads, so do take time to read, as well as looking at their web site. Some of the replies on other threads are really detailed, but some of the contributors are getting a bit "Groundhog Day" about repeating everything time and time agian, so you may lose out if you don't read recent threads.

PPCs are a bit reluctant to go down that route as it costs them money.

Last edited by Guys Dad; 13-12-2012 at 1:05 PM.
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# 11
chelle79513
Old 13-12-2012, 1:02 PM
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It is definately a private car park. I have just spoken to the council and they advised they sold the carpark around 4-5 years ago to a private comapny who they believe employ or use UKPS from Preston to manage.
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# 12
SodG24
Old 13-12-2012, 1:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chelle79513 View Post
It is definately a private car park. I have just spoken to the council and they advised they sold the carpark around 4-5 years ago to a private comapny who they believe employ or use UKPS from Preston to manage.
Then just ignore the "ticket" and the letters you get. The letters will get ever more threatening and may well mention legal action and bailiffs - this is intended to scare you into paying and part of the scam.

Dump the letters in the bin and continue with life as if nothing had happened.
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# 13
chelle79513
Old 13-12-2012, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SodG24 View Post
Then just ignore the "ticket" and the letters you get. The letters will get ever more threatening and may well mention legal action and bailiffs - this is intended to scare you into paying and part of the scam.

Dump the letters in the bin and continue with life as if nothing had happened.
Many thanks for this. I will read through the other information and threads as you have suggested and then see where we go from there but at the moment you suggest doing nothing, not even appealing to them or the ombudsman? I feel a bit scared at this thought as I tend to not like confrontation so would go with the easy option and pay them. I may come back with further questions on the thread if that's ok as it would seem to me that you appear to know what you are talking about.
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# 14
SodG24
Old 13-12-2012, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chelle79513 View Post
Many thanks for this. I will read through the other information and threads as you have suggested and then see where we go from there but at the moment you suggest doing nothing, not even appealing to them or the ombudsman? I feel a bit scared at this thought as I tend to not like confrontation so would go with the easy option and pay them. I may come back with further questions on the thread if that's ok as it would seem to me that you appear to know what you are talking about.
DO NOT PAY !!!! If you don't like confrontation then appealing probably isn't for you. If you did decide to do so you first have to appeal to the Private Parking Company ( PPC ). They will reject it and should give what is know as a POPLA reference. This would allow you to then appeal to the "independent" adjudicator. Note it isn't really that independent !

Please read the following ( thanks to Coupon Mad for it ! ) :

It's an unsolicited invoice. Ignore it and ignore the letters.

When dealing with "tickets" from private parking companies (PPCs) our advice is to ignore them as long as the registered keeper is you or a relative (company/hire/lease cars need a different approach). The letters are easy to ignore when they are received by someone who knows it's all hogwash and not a real parking ticket at all. The whole scam of fake PCNs relies firstly on people's ignorance of the fact that a random private company can't fine anyone, and secondly on their natural fear of parking tickets and the escalating costs/bailiff scenario (which doesn't apply, there is NO DEBT).

Quite simply, PPCs copy the look of a real parking ticket and - hey presto! - the cash rolls in from victims who know no better.

Tick off the threatening letters here.

Watchdog clip with expert Solicitor's opinion here.

Barrister's opinion here.
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