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    • bylromarha
    • By bylromarha 11th Mar 17, 8:00 PM
    • 9,916 Posts
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    bylromarha
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
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    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 12th Mar 17, 1:13 AM
    • 37,491 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    Not sure, presumably their Planned Admission No. is freely available.

    We found out for an appeal into year 8 - and I'm not sure how - that they were only two above their PAN in that year, and that two children were expected to move on at the end of year 7. I think someone just mentioned it during the verbal hearing. To me it was obvious that admitting two new children wouldn't be the end of the world - and there were only two of us wanting Year 8 places!

    But I thought your appeal ideally needed to be about their process - has someone who meets the admission criteria less than you got in? Should siblings have taken a higher priority? Have they properly applied the distance thing? So you could ask those questions: if there's a list of priorities, ask how many children in each priority group have been admitted?
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    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 12th Mar 17, 9:33 AM
    • 35,515 Posts
    • 149,802 Thanks
    silvercar
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
    Originally posted by bylromarha
    It's usually things like the distance from school of the furthest pupil admitted under the distance to school category. So if you live 1.2 miles from school you can see if the rule has been followed properly. eg if they answer with 1.4 miles, you know a mistake has been made. If they answer with 1.1 miles, you know the rules have been followed correctly.

    If there is a limit on the number of sibling places, ask how many siblings have been admitted.
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    • SS78
    • By SS78 12th Mar 17, 10:10 PM
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    SS78
    When is best to appeal?
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 13th Mar 17, 2:31 AM
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    Savvy_Sue
    I can't help with the number of appeals you can make. Is this for a year 7 place? Have you asked to go on the waiting list, and found out where on the waiting list your child would be? That's often the simplest way, rather than going to appeal.

    But, if you are going to appeal, on what grounds? 'I want my child to go to this school' is NOT good grounds. 'I don't want my child to go to this other school' is NOT good grounds. In what way has the admission process been followed incorrectly for your child?
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    • SS78
    • By SS78 13th Mar 17, 7:14 AM
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    SS78
    Thank you.
    It's for a year 7 place. Just wondering if we would stand more of a chance doing an in-year appeal- do schools have to save some spaces for in-year appeals?
    Wanted to find out if by doing an appeal now it prevents us from doing an in-year appeal as well?
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Mar 17, 9:31 AM
    • 35,515 Posts
    • 149,802 Thanks
    silvercar
    Thank you.
    It's for a year 7 place. Just wondering if we would stand more of a chance doing an in-year appeal- do schools have to save some spaces for in-year appeals?
    Wanted to find out if by doing an appeal now it prevents us from doing an in-year appeal as well?
    Originally posted by SS78
    Appeals are to either suggest the admission rules weren't followed correctly and so your child should have been given a place initially or to say there is a particular reason why your child should be at that school that wasn't considered.

    It should make no difference whether the appeal is from the pre-admittance or in-year.

    I don't see how there will be places set aside for in-year appeals; either there are places or there are not. If children leave the school in-year then there is a waiting list. I suppose there is a vague chance of a vacancy occurring and the school know of an in-year appeal for someone who has just moved to the area and therefore may have been admitted initially if they were in the area, but I can't see why anyone would have a better chance in-year per se. Remember there may be no in-year places if no one leaves.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debate House Prices & the Economy, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Mortgages and Endowments, In My Home incl DIY, Overseas Holidays & Student boards.
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    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 13th Mar 17, 6:13 PM
    • 18,221 Posts
    • 41,703 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    Originally posted by SS78
    As I understand it appeals for Y7 admissions are for applications that have been refused now and in-year appeals are for in-year applications. To make an in-year appeal you'd have to have made an in-year application, which you haven't.

    So you would have to appeal, lose, start at the offered school, make an in-year application for chosen school, fail that, then make and in-year appeal.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • SS78
    • By SS78 13th Mar 17, 8:26 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    SS78
    Thank you
    Thank you everyone - very useful comments.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 13th Mar 17, 8:48 PM
    • 3,783 Posts
    • 3,656 Thanks
    susancs
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    Originally posted by SS78
    You wouldn't usually do an in year appeal for a place unless a place on the waiting that came up should have gone to your child due to the admissions criteria (which also applies to the waiting list) not being applied correctly.

    If a school is oversubscribed, they do not keep places back but offer places until they reach their PAN. When children leave or do not take up a place then they admit those who are top of the waiting list which is ordered as per the the admissions criteria. A child might be top of the waiting list, but if another child joins it and meets a higher criteria they then become top (there is movement up and down). For example a catholic looked after child who moves into the area will usually be top criteria and would be admitted before the previous top of the list.

    To win an appeal it is usually a case of providing evidence that the admissions criteria was not applied correctly and if it had been then your child would have been given a place. If your child is a baptised catholic and currently attends a catholic primary school you may find your child's headteacher may be willing to write a letter to support your appeal stating that your child's pastoral needs can only be met by this particular school as it is catholic (providing you have not been offered another catholic school). You could also get your child to write a letter stating how important continuing in the catholic education system and the value she places on being part of the catholic community is to her, in their own words. Your parish priest may also be willing to provide a letter. If the admissions criteria has an exceptional pastoral needs clause within each criteria this might help place her higher up the waiting list.
    Last edited by susancs; 14-03-2017 at 5:58 PM.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 13th Mar 17, 11:23 PM
    • 19,398 Posts
    • 31,382 Thanks
    Spendless
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
    Originally posted by bylromarha
    I'm guessing for her not to get a place that you've applied to a school where there is at least one criteria if not 2 or more before siblings?

    At my DD's school the criteria is LAC, Catchment, attended a feeder school Primary for at least one year prior to applying and then siblings. After that is goes on distance.

    However the criteria changed after my son started there. Siblings used to be below catchment, but above feeder schools. The HT changed it after 50 kids who were out of catchment but had been at the feeder schools didn't get in the year my son started in yr7.

    I suppose anyone who had got an older child at the school and was expecting their younger one to get in due to the sibling criteria only for it to be changed *might* be able to include that BUT I've no idea whether it would count as being relevant.

    What has changed since your eldest secured a place there, have you moved, or is it just down to high admission numbers this year?
    • Maha23
    • By Maha23 8th Apr 17, 11:47 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Maha23
    Y7 appeal
    Hi everyone. Can anyone please give me advise on school appeals? Dd didn't get her 1s choice secondary school. I have many grounds that I feel are important to appeal on. The school is the only faith based (even tho it welcomes all faiths And none faith) in the area. It's a single gender (girls). We follow the ethos of the school. It's the only school in the area which will allow our daughter to continue learning French. My younger sister who 2 years older than my daughter and is her best friend and role model attends the school. All DD's friends are due to attend this school. I have given my appeal form, but need help with preparing my written statement. Please I need all the advise and help I can get.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 9th Apr 17, 1:35 AM
    • 3,783 Posts
    • 3,656 Thanks
    susancs
    Hi everyone. Can anyone please give me advise on school appeals? Dd didn't get her 1s choice secondary school. I have many grounds that I feel are important to appeal on. The school is the only faith based (even tho it welcomes all faiths And none faith) in the area. It's a single gender (girls). We follow the ethos of the school. It's the only school in the area which will allow our daughter to continue learning French. My younger sister who 2 years older than my daughter and is her best friend and role model attends the school. All DD's friends are due to attend this school. I have given my appeal form, but need help with preparing my written statement. Please I need all the advise and help I can get.
    Originally posted by Maha23
    To be successful at a school appeal you usually have to provide evidence that the school criteria was not applied correctly and if it had been your child would have got a place.

    If you are appealing on the basis of expectional needs that a particular school is the only one that can meet these needs it is best to get evidence to back this up e.g professionals involved with your child. If she is part of the faith group community, has been educated in that faith at a local faith feeder school could your child's headteacher support your appeal, as well as the faith minister? Her cousin attending the school will probably not be considered a valid reason as they would be unlikely to see each other much as in different years. You need to consider evidencing why it is the only school who can meet her particular needs e.g why does she need to attend a single gender school instead of a mixed? Why does she need to continue learning French instead of another language? It must be a need, preferably backed up by evidence rather than a preference to stand a chance at appeal.
    • xxtonigldxx
    • By xxtonigldxx 12th Apr 17, 8:21 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    xxtonigldxx
    Can I get some advice on a primary school appeal for an in year admission? Basically we have relocated so my daughters had to change schools as it's over an hour a way. My year one daughter has a place at the local primary and my year 3 is on the waiting list but we also have an appeal in just over a week. Can anyone give me any advice on how to approach this and go against the schools defence? Tia
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 14th Apr 17, 2:10 AM
    • 37,491 Posts
    • 33,801 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    What is the school's defence? How many children do they have in Y3 atm?

    How far is the school your Y3 child has been allocated to?

    You have to bear in mind that not so long ago, many Y3 children would change from infant to junior school, not necessarily on the same site, so wanting them at the same school may not be a strong ground for appeal.
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    • xxtonigldxx
    • By xxtonigldxx 17th Apr 17, 3:51 PM
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    xxtonigldxx
    My daughter doesn't have a school as all the schools are in the same situation in that all year 3 places need to be appealed for.

    The school has 64 children in year 3 ATM across two classes. However they have extended to three classes per year but from year two downwards. The schools defence is regarding health and safety within the classroom size etc, lack of facilities and coat pegs for an extra child, school meals (my daughter has packed lunch) traffic in the local area (we will walk as will leave 10 mins away). We are also within the parish community. I'm just not sure what else I can really say to improve my daughters case??
    • tiltal
    • By tiltal 18th Apr 17, 8:49 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tiltal
    Hi all,
    I have just received school refusal for my first choice of school for my 4 year old. I feel so deflated. I have a 7 year old, who I fought hard last year to get him into the school, and feel I can't do this again!
    It is a CofE school, we are practicing Christians.
    The school is VA, I completed the online admissions form in January and there was no mention on the form when I completed it, that I needed to complete a supplementary form (when I did my sons it clearly stated this).
    I have just looked on the school website and there is a sup form that they say needs to be completed with when applying for a place. Why wasn't this made clear on the online application? Do I have any good grounds? I feel my son might have been offered a place if this extra information was available. I have looked at the admission criteria and feel he would have received a place, especially as we are Christians, and he has a sibling in the school.
    There is no way we can take my 2 children to 2 different schools and a daughter to a childminders. My mum has cancer and my hubbby works nights. Whilst I am at work he does the school run and cares for my mum, this would just not be feasible. any advice would be greatly received. Many thanks.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 18th Apr 17, 9:40 AM
    • 3,783 Posts
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    susancs
    My daughter doesn't have a school as all the schools are in the same situation in that all year 3 places need to be appealed for.

    The school has 64 children in year 3 ATM across two classes. However they have extended to three classes per year but from year two downwards. The schools defence is regarding health and safety within the classroom size etc, lack of facilities and coat pegs for an extra child, school meals (my daughter has packed lunch) traffic in the local area (we will walk as will leave 10 mins away). We are also within the parish community. I'm just not sure what else I can really say to improve my daughters case??
    Originally posted by xxtonigldxx
    Unlike infant class sizes (30) there are no statutory limits on junior class sizes in England, so while it is very hard to win an infant place appeal, a Junior appeal is not as hard. Have you asked for the two junior classroom sizes and recommended sq meter per child under 9? As as you could check if they have actual space in the classroom and if appropriate use this to counter any defense that the classrooms cannot accommodate another year 3 pupil due to size.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 18th Apr 17, 10:06 AM
    • 3,783 Posts
    • 3,656 Thanks
    susancs
    Hi all,
    I have just received school refusal for my first choice of school for my 4 year old. I feel so deflated. I have a 7 year old, who I fought hard last year to get him into the school, and feel I can't do this again!
    It is a CofE school, we are practicing Christians.
    The school is VA, I completed the online admissions form in January and there was no mention on the form when I completed it, that I needed to complete a supplementary form (when I did my sons it clearly stated this).
    I have just looked on the school website and there is a sup form that they say needs to be completed with when applying for a place. Why wasn't this made clear on the online application? Do I have any good grounds? I feel my son might have been offered a place if this extra information was available. I have looked at the admission criteria and feel he would have received a place, especially as we are Christians, and he has a sibling in the school.
    There is no way we can take my 2 children to 2 different schools and a daughter to a childminders. My mum has cancer and my hubbby works nights. Whilst I am at work he does the school run and cares for my mum, this would just not be feasible. any advice would be greatly received. Many thanks.
    Originally posted by tiltal
    Usually the requirement to submit the SIF for faith schools is in the admissions policy and if it was not stated clearly in this, then you would have a good case for appeal, as you would have probably got a place if this requirement was made clear on the faith schools admission policy.

    Either way complete the SIF with the evidence that may be required such as baptismal certificate and signature of your church minister and hand it in the school asap as it would probably put you top of the waiting list when it opens.

    It may also be worth making an appointment to see the Head teacher to discuss the issue. I am surprised that the Head teacher did not mention school applications for siblings and a reminder about the SIF in the newsletter when the online council applications were due to open.

    There may well be places opening up before September as children may move or not take up the place. Just make sure you are on the waiting list as soon as it opens.
    • tiltal
    • By tiltal 18th Apr 17, 6:07 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tiltal
    Usually the requirement to submit the SIF for faith schools is in the admissions policy and if it was not stated clearly in this, then you would have a good case for appeal, as you would have probably got a place if this requirement was made clear on the faith schools admission policy.

    Either way complete the SIF with the evidence that may be required such as baptismal certificate and signature of your church minister and hand it in the school asap as it would probably put you top of the waiting list when it opens.

    It may also be worth making an appointment to see the Head teacher to discuss the issue. I am surprised that the Head teacher did not mention school applications for siblings and a reminder about the SIF in the newsletter when the online council applications were due to open.

    There may well be places opening up before September as children may move or not take up the place. Just make sure you are on the waiting list as soon as it opens.
    Originally posted by susancs




    Thank you very much. I guess it was my own fault that I didn't read the online guide correctly. I just presumed, as before it would specify when I chose the school to complete a Supplementary form and it didn't. My husband spoke to the head today he said it is a points based system, and no, no reminder to parents about supplementary forms, this would have helped! I did find out that my son is 2nd on the waiting list which is positive. But come June when they allocate late application places he could easily go down the list.
    I am going to write my appeal letter this evening and take it into school along with the Supplementary form.
    It's just not possible that my husband can take 3 children to 3 different places with 2 schools starting and finishing within 5-10 minutes of each other! I would have to either give up work, putting us in financial difficulty, or move my 7 year old school again! I think it will be detrimental to his education to move school again he only started at this school in July after almost a year appealing to get him in year 1 after his in year school transfer was refused.
    If my son goes to the top of the waiting list will he be offered a place straight away or does he have to wait until June when late applications are considered...I wasn't sure about that?
    I feel so guilty as I feel my mistake has cost my son a potential school place
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