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    • bylromarha
    • By bylromarha 11th Mar 17, 7:00 PM
    • 9,904 Posts
    • 13,193 Thanks
    bylromarha
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
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    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 12th Mar 17, 12:13 AM
    • 37,244 Posts
    • 33,544 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Not sure, presumably their Planned Admission No. is freely available.

    We found out for an appeal into year 8 - and I'm not sure how - that they were only two above their PAN in that year, and that two children were expected to move on at the end of year 7. I think someone just mentioned it during the verbal hearing. To me it was obvious that admitting two new children wouldn't be the end of the world - and there were only two of us wanting Year 8 places!

    But I thought your appeal ideally needed to be about their process - has someone who meets the admission criteria less than you got in? Should siblings have taken a higher priority? Have they properly applied the distance thing? So you could ask those questions: if there's a list of priorities, ask how many children in each priority group have been admitted?
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    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 12th Mar 17, 8:33 AM
    • 34,804 Posts
    • 146,496 Thanks
    silvercar
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
    Originally posted by bylromarha
    It's usually things like the distance from school of the furthest pupil admitted under the distance to school category. So if you live 1.2 miles from school you can see if the rule has been followed properly. eg if they answer with 1.4 miles, you know a mistake has been made. If they answer with 1.1 miles, you know the rules have been followed correctly.

    If there is a limit on the number of sibling places, ask how many siblings have been admitted.
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    • SS78
    • By SS78 12th Mar 17, 9:10 PM
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    SS78
    When is best to appeal?
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 13th Mar 17, 1:31 AM
    • 37,244 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    I can't help with the number of appeals you can make. Is this for a year 7 place? Have you asked to go on the waiting list, and found out where on the waiting list your child would be? That's often the simplest way, rather than going to appeal.

    But, if you are going to appeal, on what grounds? 'I want my child to go to this school' is NOT good grounds. 'I don't want my child to go to this other school' is NOT good grounds. In what way has the admission process been followed incorrectly for your child?
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    • SS78
    • By SS78 13th Mar 17, 6:14 AM
    • 3 Posts
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    SS78
    Thank you.
    It's for a year 7 place. Just wondering if we would stand more of a chance doing an in-year appeal- do schools have to save some spaces for in-year appeals?
    Wanted to find out if by doing an appeal now it prevents us from doing an in-year appeal as well?
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Mar 17, 8:31 AM
    • 34,804 Posts
    • 146,496 Thanks
    silvercar
    Thank you.
    It's for a year 7 place. Just wondering if we would stand more of a chance doing an in-year appeal- do schools have to save some spaces for in-year appeals?
    Wanted to find out if by doing an appeal now it prevents us from doing an in-year appeal as well?
    Originally posted by SS78
    Appeals are to either suggest the admission rules weren't followed correctly and so your child should have been given a place initially or to say there is a particular reason why your child should be at that school that wasn't considered.

    It should make no difference whether the appeal is from the pre-admittance or in-year.

    I don't see how there will be places set aside for in-year appeals; either there are places or there are not. If children leave the school in-year then there is a waiting list. I suppose there is a vague chance of a vacancy occurring and the school know of an in-year appeal for someone who has just moved to the area and therefore may have been admitted initially if they were in the area, but I can't see why anyone would have a better chance in-year per se. Remember there may be no in-year places if no one leaves.
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    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 13th Mar 17, 5:13 PM
    • 17,856 Posts
    • 40,661 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    Originally posted by SS78
    As I understand it appeals for Y7 admissions are for applications that have been refused now and in-year appeals are for in-year applications. To make an in-year appeal you'd have to have made an in-year application, which you haven't.

    So you would have to appeal, lose, start at the offered school, make an in-year application for chosen school, fail that, then make and in-year appeal.
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    • SS78
    • By SS78 13th Mar 17, 7:26 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    SS78
    Thank you
    Thank you everyone - very useful comments.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 13th Mar 17, 7:48 PM
    • 3,754 Posts
    • 3,616 Thanks
    susancs
    Hello. Please can you clarify the number of appeals that can be made to the same secondary school and when.... I'm trying to appeal for my daughter to get into a nearby Catholic secondary school for this Sept 2017. The admission guidance explains the appeal process for this time of year and then talks about in-year appeals. It appears that I can only make one appeal within the same academic year. Does this refer to appeals for September and then I can make an in-year appeal as well? Or does it mean if I appeal now for a place in September and don't succeed... I can't appeal until the following academic year( next March for Sept 18?). Is there anyway of can appealing twice ... now and then again in year... this academic year? Also I'm wondering whether I would stand more chance if I waited to do an in-year appeal since I've heard schools often keep a number of places open for in-year appeals? Thank you for your help!
    Originally posted by SS78
    You wouldn't usually do an in year appeal for a place unless a place on the waiting that came up should have gone to your child due to the admissions criteria (which also applies to the waiting list) not being applied correctly.

    If a school is oversubscribed, they do not keep places back but offer places until they reach their PAN. When children leave or do not take up a place then they admit those who are top of the waiting list which is ordered as per the the admissions criteria. A child might be top of the waiting list, but if another child joins it and meets a higher criteria they then become top (there is movement up and down). For example a catholic looked after child who moves into the area will usually be top criteria and would be admitted before the previous top of the list.

    To win an appeal it is usually a case of providing evidence that the admissions criteria was not applied correctly and if it had been then your child would have been given a place. If your child is a baptised catholic and currently attends a catholic primary school you may find your child's headteacher may be willing to write a letter to support your appeal stating that your child's pastoral needs can only be met by this particular school as it is catholic (providing you have not been offered another catholic school). You could also get your child to write a letter stating how important continuing in the catholic education system and the value she places on being part of the catholic community is to her, in their own words. Your parish priest may also be willing to provide a letter. If the admissions criteria has an exceptional pastoral needs clause within each criteria this might help place her higher up the waiting list.
    Last edited by susancs; 14-03-2017 at 4:58 PM.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 13th Mar 17, 10:23 PM
    • 19,171 Posts
    • 30,936 Thanks
    Spendless
    Evening all. Just looking at DDs secondary school appeal. DS goes there, so I feel we know the school pretty well. The county's appeals page says that you can ask the school for any information that can help your appeal. I don't have a clue what information they may have which would help my appeal! It's a case of me not knowing what I don't know.

    Anything you think I should ask for please?
    Originally posted by bylromarha
    I'm guessing for her not to get a place that you've applied to a school where there is at least one criteria if not 2 or more before siblings?

    At my DD's school the criteria is LAC, Catchment, attended a feeder school Primary for at least one year prior to applying and then siblings. After that is goes on distance.

    However the criteria changed after my son started there. Siblings used to be below catchment, but above feeder schools. The HT changed it after 50 kids who were out of catchment but had been at the feeder schools didn't get in the year my son started in yr7.

    I suppose anyone who had got an older child at the school and was expecting their younger one to get in due to the sibling criteria only for it to be changed *might* be able to include that BUT I've no idea whether it would count as being relevant.

    What has changed since your eldest secured a place there, have you moved, or is it just down to high admission numbers this year?
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