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Endowment Policy can you claim mis-sold PPI?
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# 1
Murgaltruder
Old 09-04-2012, 2:00 PM
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Default Endowment Policy can you claim mis-sold PPI?

Hi

I'm wondering if anyone could help as I'm just getting myself a little confused! I had an endowment mortgage on a property for ten years and I wondered if you can claim back mis-sold PPI on this as is had a life insurance element to it and I was told it was a condition of getting the mortgage and not an optional element as such. I paid the bank a payment of 150-200 per month which I presume was to cover the interest only and a separate company, Winterthur Life a monthly payment of 66.93, which to me seems like a lot for life assurance as we only pay 15 now! I have already claimed for mis-selling of the endowment policy, getting a payout of 8000, does this already cover the life assurance element too? I still have all the paperwork but I just can't get my head around what it all means and currently being 7 months pregnant and shortly going on maternity leave I don't want to miss out on any cash I could get my hands on plus baby brain not helping!! Thanks
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# 2
dunstonh
Old 09-04-2012, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
I had an endowment mortgage on a property for ten years and I wondered if you can claim back mis-sold PPI on this as is had a life insurance element to it and I was told it was a condition of getting the mortgage and not an optional element as such.
Can you clarify what you think PPI issued by general insurance companies has to do with endowments issued by life assurance companies and why you think there is a connection?

It is almost certainly correct that you were told to have an endowment if you took out an interest only mortgage. Most lenders insisted on it and it was only a more recent trend (during the credit boom) that saw that requirement stopped. Ironically, most lenders have moved back to that requirement based on advice of the FSA.

Quote:
I paid the bank a payment of 150-200 per month which I presume was to cover the interest only and a separate company, Winterthur Life a monthly payment of 66.93, which to me seems like a lot for life assurance as we only pay 15 now!
The Winterthur policy would have been an endowment policy. The point of it was to pay out on death or aim to pay the mortgage amount on maturity. You appear to have changed from an endowment policy to a term assurance. A term assurance will not repay the mortgage on maturity.
Quote:
I have already claimed for mis-selling of the endowment policy, getting a payout of 8000, does this already cover the life assurance element too?
What has life assurance got to do with it?

Quote:
I don't want to miss out on any cash
you are not. you seem to be mixing up several different things with some strange reasons and coming to even strange conclusions. Bottom line is that you are not missing out on any compensation. You do appear to be missing out on understanding what you have and why though. I suggest you investigate and understand that first.
I am a Financial Adviser. Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
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# 3
Murgaltruder
Old 09-04-2012, 7:46 PM
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Yes the point being that I was confused about what the endowment entailed which is why I was asking for advice! I took out this endowment 14 years ago when I was 20 years old and did not have a good understanding of it at the time or since. I know I received letters saying there would be a shortfall and I followed the instruction on here to reclaim for mis-sold endowment policies, which as I said paid out 8000. So my understanding is I have reclaimed for the endowment being mis-sold but was there any PPI involved that I should also claim for? It may seem naive but I'm no financial advisor and I'm just trying to check I'm not missing out on anything!!
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# 4
Murgaltruder
Old 09-04-2012, 7:49 PM
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Oh and BTW I no longer make any payments towards the endowment policy and i believe this was closed on reciept of compensation. We now have a repayment mortgage on the new property.
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# 5
Annisele
Old 09-04-2012, 8:33 PM
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Short version: no, there was no PPI on your endowment, and nothing more you can claim for in respect of the endowment policy.

Slightly longer version: don't bother with any of the PPI claim companies - if you do have a PPI claim, you can deal with it yourself for free.

However, a mortgage endowment policy would not have had PPI included. It might have had WOP (waiver of premium) which would have paid the premiums on the endowment if you'd been unable to work due to sickness or disability, but it wouldn't have had PPI.

"Believing" the endowment was closed is probably not a good thing - give Winterthur a call and check! It is now part of Friends Life, and some of the policies are now branded Axa - stick your policy number in here to work out who to speak to about it.

The endowment would have had two elements: life cover and a savings element. The idea was that by the time your mortgage ended the savings element would have grown enough for you to repay your mortgage. If you died before then, the life cover element would have kicked in and repaid the mortgage for you. So, you can't compare the cost with the cost of a pure term assurance policy (which is probably what you're paying 15 for) as the term assurance policy has no savings element.
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# 6
bungle21
Old 16-07-2012, 2:36 PM
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Default Winterthur PPI

I wonder if anyone can help. I took out a repayment mortgae with Halifax in 1996. (I have since changed my lender). I bought my house through the Halifax estate agent arm and used the in house financial adviser. Although I work in the public sector and said I had adequate sick cover etc he led me to believe that securing my mortgage would be conditional on taking out payment protection/death cover for myself and my wife. I duly signed up for a Hiscox policy this later transferred to Winterthur. THe policy I have is a with benefits policy and runs for the period of the mortgage. As I have remortgagged it no longer covers my full outstanding debt. Over the period I have paid in excess of 17000 (86/month) and the current value of bonuses is around 6K.
Firstly can I reclaim mis sold PPI in respect of this policy and Secondly how much would I be likely to get back I am loath to use agencies that charge up to 30% for the priviledge of writing letters on my behalf and would like some advise to assist making my decision. Thanks
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# 7
holly hobby
Old 16-07-2012, 3:08 PM
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Its ASU (mortgage payment protection) policies in connection with a mge, not PPI, which is in relation to personal loans.

Are you unhappy with the ASU or endowment that you purchased ? Or both ?

Please give details as to why you do not believe that the policies concerning you, were not appropriate at the time of purchase.

Then we will be able to give a bit of guidance.

Holly
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# 8
dunstonh
Old 16-07-2012, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Firstly can I reclaim mis sold PPI in respect of this policy
No. As it is not PPI. you would look rather foolish making a complaint about PPI when you didnt have it.

Quote:
Secondly how much would I be likely to get back I am loath to use agencies that charge up to 30% for the priviledge of writing letters on my behalf and would like some advise to assist making my decision.
Zero as it is not PPI.
I am a Financial Adviser. Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
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# 9
alibo72
Old 21-02-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murgaltruder View Post
Hi

I'm wondering if anyone could help as I'm just getting myself a little confused! I had an endowment mortgage on a property for ten years and I wondered if you can claim back mis-sold PPI on this as is had a life insurance element to it and I was told it was a condition of getting the mortgage and not an optional element as such. I paid the bank a payment of 150-200 per month which I presume was to cover the interest only and a separate company, Winterthur Life a monthly payment of 66.93, which to me seems like a lot for life assurance as we only pay 15 now! I have already claimed for mis-selling of the endowment policy, getting a payout of 8000, does this already cover the life assurance element too? I still have all the paperwork but I just can't get my head around what it all means and currently being 7 months pregnant and shortly going on maternity leave I don't want to miss out on any cash I could get my hands on plus baby brain not helping!! Thanks
Hi there...was 'googling' away looking into Winterthur Life 'whole of life' insurance policies that my OH has had since 2000...sold to him to go with his original mortgage...our monthly payment is about 66 too...and found your post! Can you help me by answering a few questions please?? How did you go about claiming for the mis-selling of the endowment policy? Was it easy/did it take long? We are also on the lookout for any cash owed (hence looking at cancelling the payments) as we have a 17 month old and times are tough..plus i still have baby brain! Would greatly appreciate any tips/info you can pass on! Thanks!!
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# 10
holly hobby
Old 21-02-2013, 12:18 AM
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Your post isn't that clear ...

Are you saying that your partner was sold a whole of life (WOL) policy to support an interest only mortgage ?

Or are you saying, he has a WOL policy he is unhappy with, but also has an endowment supporting an interest only mortgage, that he is also unhappy with ? (which is possibly time barred in any event if this is anything to do with poor performance, and no claimed knowledge of risk)

Anyhoo, bit more info and some guidance on what the issues are.

Holly
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# 11
alibo72
Old 21-02-2013, 8:45 AM
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Hi there...sorry if i was unclear...

My OH bought our property in 2000, as a single man, no dependants. His original mortgage was a repayment mortgage. He was talked into taking out (think he was told he had to make sure his mortgage was covered in the event of him having a heart attack or similar blah blah) a WOL insurance policy, covering critical illness. He is the only one mentioned on the policy and lo and behold once i've started looking into this (he has just let it run tbh as he thought it was a condition of the mortgage etc and let's face it, he's a bloke!) it turns out that he has 2 policies..exactly the same, both WOL, both criticall illness, one covering him for approx 30k and the other one for approx 60k. Considering his original mortgage was around 62k and he had no dependents then i really don't know why 2 policies were necessary at all. The 'surrender' value of the 2 policies totals about 4.5k.

Hope that gives you a bit more info!

Thanks for your interest!
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# 12
dunstonh
Old 21-02-2013, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Hi there...was 'googling' away looking into Winterthur Life 'whole of life' insurance policies that my OH has had since 2000...sold to him to go with his original mortgage...our monthly payment is about 66 too...and found your post! Can you help me by answering a few questions please?? How did you go about claiming for the mis-selling of the endowment policy?
A whole of life policy is not an endowment policy. So, why are you asking someone how they got on with en endowment when it has little in common with a whole of life policy?

Also, the OP was mistaken in thinking that a life policy could have PPI attached to it. It doesn't. So, the outcome of making a PPI complaint on a life assurance policy would be rejected as its not PPI and does not contain any PPI. Your issues have nothing in common.

Quote:
He was talked into taking out (think he was told he had to make sure his mortgage was covered in the event of him having a heart attack or similar blah blah) a WOL insurance policy, covering critical illness.
Right, on the face of it, that could be a mis-sale but with caveats. A single person, living alone with no financial dependants doesnt need life assurance. Plus, they are unlikely to have a whole of life need (especially if the policy was linked to the mortgage. However, critical illness cover was on the policy. That could change things because the bulk of the premium will be against the CI cover. Adding on life cover to CI often only adds a few pence to a pound or two. So, even if you have no absolute financial need for life cover at that moment in time, the small monthly cost difference can make sense to add it on as it will end up being cheaper in the long run.

You need to look at the report to see what the recommendation said as that would typically document the reasons why. So, there are potential issues here but equally, it could easily have no issues.

The whole of life thing could be an issue but some tied agents only had a whole of life plan backed with an investment element (Allied Dunbar for example, now Zurich). Tied agents can only retail what they offer.
I am a Financial Adviser. Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.

Last edited by dunstonh; 21-02-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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# 13
holly hobby
Old 21-02-2013, 12:22 PM
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Duns. has already replied, but I'll make comment to what you've said.

A Whole of Life Policy - is fundamentally and primarily a life assurance policy, albeit with an element of investment built in (be it with profits or unit linked).

The inclusion of CI in your partners policy, suggests to me this is a universal WOL contract and unit linked (which is the savings/investment element). This type of WOL contract, along with standard provision of life cover, also offers additional protection elements - such as Critical Illnes (CI), Permanent Health Ins (PHI) and other accident benefits (this will vary with providers).

Obviously the more additional protection selected, the lower the resulting premium available for investment, with the cost of provision actually met by cancellation of units. WOL policies also generally have a premium review clause (which may be reviewd after the 10th anniversary of the policy).

Essentially the aim of the policy is to cover all the policyholder’s protection needs within 1 policy - whilst providing flexibility for the policyholder to move their primary requirements from protection to investment to suit their needs throughout life ... i.e. in early yrs family protection may be the priority, whilst in later yrs with no dependants, the indvidiual may wish to maximise growth potential, and so will "switch" requirments as reqd.

Having briefly explained WOLs it may make more sense now why your partner was sold and chose to accept one, IF he expressed a need for life cover to cover his C&I mge, with CI cover (generally recommended if affordable), with the addition of the prospect of a savings element, and a policy affording future flexability to provision i.e to take account of any future family he may have, etc.

Even if he just expressed a need for life cover and CI - a combined policy (even if it gave him a longer than reqd term) may have been cheaper than effecting separate ones with the provider (taking into account the avoidance of 2 policies charges, etc). As he has the option to cancel the WOL when his mge ends - but with the advantage that he could continue it, as the WOL does not have a defined term, with cover provided until death, whenever that occurs (subject to premium maintenance of course). So there may well be several reasons why this would not be a mis-sale - including the fact that the policy may have been cheaper than effecting 2 separate life assurance & CI policies, and/or if only a small diff in premiums, the added availalbe benefits of the WOL policy, still qualified it as suitable under best advice regs.

However, IF he did not have a need or want any of the above, or the benefit was mis-represented, and he solely wanted to protect his mge debt on death, then there may be a mis-sale, as a Decreasing Term Assurance would have both suitable for the need with the lowest premium.

You say he has 2 WOLs both for differing amounts, were they both taken out at the same time ?

If so, what was the reason ?

As Duns. states, the Point of Sale (POS) docs, essentially the Reason Why/Suitability letter - should clearly explain the basis of need and recommendation for all policies sold - have a read through and come back with the bones of what was recorded by the adviser - but on the face of it I don't think there is a mis-sale, but will reserve comment until we have a bit more infor from the factfind and advisers discussions.

Hope this helps

Holly

Last edited by holly hobby; 21-02-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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# 14
millymoo188
Old 24-02-2013, 3:29 PM
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Default PPI on old mortgage ??

Hi, not sure if i'm in the right place, only joined today and cannot find where to start a posting

Back in 1997 I took out a mortgage with Cheltenham & Gloucester, which I applied for at my local Lloyds Bank, and I was told quite clearly that I could only have this mortgage if I took out PPI, even though I was fully paid when on sick and in very secure employment. I have been living in spain for the last 7 years (sold the house in 2004 when I moved in with new hubby) and everytime I hear on the radio about reclaiming ppi I think I should really do something about it....but whats the cut off date......even though I KNOW I was mis-sold it.....is it too far back to do anything about ??? thanks :-)
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# 15
dunstonh
Old 24-02-2013, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millymoo188 View Post
Hi, not sure if i'm in the right place, only joined today and cannot find where to start a posting

Back in 1997 I took out a mortgage with Cheltenham & Gloucester, which I applied for at my local Lloyds Bank, and I was told quite clearly that I could only have this mortgage if I took out PPI, even though I was fully paid when on sick and in very secure employment. I have been living in spain for the last 7 years (sold the house in 2004 when I moved in with new hubby) and everytime I hear on the radio about reclaiming ppi I think I should really do something about it....but whats the cut off date......even though I KNOW I was mis-sold it.....is it too far back to do anything about ??? thanks :-)
That is the weakest PPI complaint there is. It is an unprovable allegation. Plus, you are making it on the one PPI that is generally regarded as worth having and gets the lowest success rate on complaints and C&G MPPI can only be set up correctly (as monthly premium).

There is no cut off date although lack of evidence and documenation is likely to exist as the mortgage was cleared 9 years ago and data is typically retained for 6 years after.


loan PPi and credit card PPI is where the main PPI issues are.
I am a Financial Adviser. Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
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