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  • FIRST POST
    iaj
    JSA/Work Programme Sanction
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 12, 5:10 PM
    JSA/Work Programme Sanction 8th Mar 12 at 5:10 PM
    Posting on behalf of my friend as I am really worried about them.

    My friend is on the work programme and has been sanctioned for failing to attend an appointment with their advisor.

    They live in a flat that is above a business. The flat has its own front door but is down a gated alley which Royal Mail have no access to, besides they then live behind another gate and the front door has no letterbox in it due to the lack of access. They rely on the kindness of the owner of the business to accept their post, that said much of their post does not arrive as the address of their flat is not recognised by Royal Mail.

    My friend was always notified of appointments with her Work Programme adviser at the end of the previous appointment but once they were sent their appointment by post. This letter never arrived so they missed the appointment. The adviser rang above a week later asking why they had failed to attend and my friend said they had no knowledge of any appointment. An appointment was arrange by phone and they attended with no problems.

    The letter advising of a doubt in their claim for JSA because of the missed appointment arrived after the cut of date to respond.

    They found out at their last signing that they have been sanctioned for 2 weeks for failing to attend so asked their Work Programme adviser if there was anything they could do. A letter was faxed asking for the decision to be reconsidered and my friend has heard today that the sanction still stands. Saying a letter did not arrive is not good enough and that if that is the only reason then an appeal is pointless.

    The adviser they had has actually referred them to another agency for the remained of the work programme as my friend suffers from depression, not enough to need help from a doctor or affect their ability to work but they do have down periods where everything is more of a struggle.

    My friend has found that as well as no JSA for 2 weeks, their whole claim for housing benefit has been suspended and no payment will be made on the next payment day which is Monday and their rent is due next Wednesday. They have a bad relationship with their landlord so if the rent is not paid on time then I dread to think what could happen, they are no longer on a lease as the tenancy agreement ran out last November, since they have just paid their rent as normal and no attempts have been made to get them to sign a new tenancy agreement.

    I am worried for my friend and their well being, the flat they lift in is powered soulley by electric which is on a pre-payment meter so with no JSA they won't be able to live.

    Is there anything that can be done for them? I have been told today they are not entitled to a crisis loan because they have been sanctioned and hardship does not apply for the first two weeks of a sanction because they are not in a vulnerable group.

    I am unable to help financially and live 300 miles away from them so can't even ask them to stay with me for a few days.

    If anyone can suggest anything then please do.

    Sorry its so long winded and thanks for reading
Page 1
  • iaj
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 12, 6:34 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 12, 6:34 PM
    I hope someone can offer some advice
  • busy mom
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 12, 8:33 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 12, 8:33 PM
    There is not a lot they can do I'm afraid. They cannot claim hardship for a WP sanction. If they re-engage with the provider they can have the sanction lifted but this normally effects sanctions of more than 2 weeks. They can appeal against the sanction and they do this via the local jobcentre. Explain again about the post situation.
  • Vincent Buenisedes
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 12, 8:51 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 12, 8:51 PM
    Unfortunately, if the Jobcentre has refused to reverse the original decision, the only thing left is to make an appeal. Go to the Jobcentre and ask for a "GL24" in which you state the reasons why the decision was wrong. I find it's easier to write your appeal down before hand, so when you are at the Jobcentre, they can send your appeal on immediately. This is a time limit of one month from the date of the decision, so get that appeal in as soon as possible.

    I feel for your friend as time and time again it's the most vulnerable who get clobbered by the draconian decisions by the DWP, but as they have "targets" for people to sanction, it's unavoidable that they'll get targeted. Good luck.
  • custardy
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 12, 10:17 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 12, 10:17 PM
    The flat has its own front door but is down a gated alley which Royal Mail have no access to, besides they then live behind another gate and the front door has no letterbox in it due to the lack of access. They rely on the kindness of the owner of the business to accept their post, that said much of their post does not arrive as the address of their flat is not recognised by Royal Mail.
    so its not an official address?
    no council tax?
  • allen35
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 12, 10:34 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 12, 10:34 PM
    It may be a good idea to visit the post office and ask for a PO BOX, this does carry a charge, people will still send mail to her address but will be stored at the post office until you pick it up.

    Visit the Local Authority and request Housing benefit and Council Tax Benefit be assessed on no income, your Local Authority receive notification of a suspension to benefits and this automatically suspends Housing/Council Tax benefits.

    Appeal the decision and detail everything you mentioned in your OP.

    Why not take photographs to prove the predicament (may help) and explain to remedy the situation you have applied for a po box so it doesn't happen again, explain the affect on her mental health this sanction will have and her past and present record of attendance and request discretion when making the decision.

    Another decision maker will look at your appeal and decide so give as much detail as possible, GL24 forms can be downloaded from internet and they are more spacious than Jobcentre leaflet types.

    Good Luck
    Forums can be/are a good guide to entitlement and it is good practice to back it up with clarification from the relevant department/specialist with written confirmation to safeguard yourself.
  • out of cash
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 12, 4:58 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 12, 4:58 PM
    Posting on behalf of my friend as I am really worried about them.

    My friend is on the work programme and has been sanctioned for failing to attend an appointment with their advisor.

    They live in a flat that is above a business. The flat has its own front door but is down a gated alley which Royal Mail have no access to, besides they then live behind another gate and the front door has no letterbox in it due to the lack of access. They rely on the kindness of the owner of the business to accept their post, that said much of their post does not arrive as the address of their flat is not recognised by Royal Mail.

    My friend was always notified of appointments with her Work Programme adviser at the end of the previous appointment but once they were sent their appointment by post. This letter never arrived so they missed the appointment. The adviser rang above a week later asking why they had failed to attend and my friend said they had no knowledge of any appointment. An appointment was arrange by phone and they attended with no problems.

    The letter advising of a doubt in their claim for JSA because of the missed appointment arrived after the cut of date to respond.

    They found out at their last signing that they have been sanctioned for 2 weeks for failing to attend so asked their Work Programme adviser if there was anything they could do. A letter was faxed asking for the decision to be reconsidered and my friend has heard today that the sanction still stands. Saying a letter did not arrive is not good enough and that if that is the only reason then an appeal is pointless.

    The adviser they had has actually referred them to another agency for the remained of the work programme as my friend suffers from depression, not enough to need help from a doctor or affect their ability to work but they do have down periods where everything is more of a struggle.

    My friend has found that as well as no JSA for 2 weeks, their whole claim for housing benefit has been suspended and no payment will be made on the next payment day which is Monday and their rent is due next Wednesday. They have a bad relationship with their landlord so if the rent is not paid on time then I dread to think what could happen, they are no longer on a lease as the tenancy agreement ran out last November, since they have just paid their rent as normal and no attempts have been made to get them to sign a new tenancy agreement.

    I am worried for my friend and their well being, the flat they lift in is powered soulley by electric which is on a pre-payment meter so with no JSA they won't be able to live.

    Is there anything that can be done for them? I have been told today they are not entitled to a crisis loan because they have been sanctioned and hardship does not apply for the first two weeks of a sanction because they are not in a vulnerable group.

    I am unable to help financially and live 300 miles away from them so can't even ask them to stay with me for a few days.

    If anyone can suggest anything then please do.

    Sorry its so long winded and thanks for reading
    Originally posted by iaj



    Really sorry to hear all this,it happened to a friend of mine and hes currently taken them to a tribunal about the sanctions etc.I have no doubt he will win as they are just seen to look bloody minded a lot of the time when doing this.Citizens advice are getting clogged up with benefit legal challenge stuff etc,check out the vid on you tube,just google work programme santions citizens advice! hope your friend stuffs em good.
  • out of cash
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 12, 5:02 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 12, 5:02 PM
    It may be a good idea to visit the post office and ask for a PO BOX, this does carry a charge, people will still send mail to her address but will be stored at the post office until you pick it up.

    Visit the Local Authority and request Housing benefit and Council Tax Benefit be assessed on no income, your Local Authority receive notification of a suspension to benefits and this automatically suspends Housing/Council Tax benefits.

    Appeal the decision and detail everything you mentioned in your OP.

    Why not take photographs to prove the predicament (may help) and explain to remedy the situation you have applied for a po box so it doesn't happen again, explain the affect on her mental health this sanction will have and her past and present record of attendance and request discretion when making the decision.

    Another decision maker will look at your appeal and decide so give as much detail as possible, GL24 forms can be downloaded from internet and they are more spacious than Jobcentre leaflet types.

    Good Luck
    Originally posted by allen35

    I thought the rules on council tax and housing benefit had changed in regard to where sanctions have been applied ? if not, if the goverment had a brain cell between them they would see what a mess this is likely to cause.No wonder the cab are saying its costing the goverment millions in lost cases as people are getting sanctions overturned.The nightmare is just beginning.
    Last edited by out of cash; 10-03-2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason: error
  • miduck
    • #9
    • 3rd Dec 12, 4:37 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Dec 12, 4:37 PM
    For anyone who has been referred to the Work programme and doesnt want to go through the whole nightmare of being forced cheap labour I would advise them to visit this site:
    work programme org uk
    Jobcentre plus cannot legally share your data with these third party providers who will then go on to share your data with even more unknown individuals.

    There are template letters provided for you to refuse the workprogramme. Many people have so far used them.

    The idea is that you do not give them permission to use your data - you cannot be sanctioned for this. Without them being able to use your data, they cannot send you off for slave labour.

    sorry to bump an old thread - but interesting last post there.

    Has anyone ever actually gone down this route of refusing to share your info with data protection etc. Would love to know what happened, consequences, etc
    Originally posted by SarahBeany
    You cannot be sanctioned for refusing to allow your details to be passed to a third party. You can (and will) be sanctioned for failing to follow a reasonable instruction. Your advice is at best naive and at worst dangerous.
  • baza52
    so is it a reasonable instruction to provide your details or not?
    Surely you cannot be forced to?
  • busy mom
    If you refuse to allow your details to be passed to the provider JCP adviser will just call the work programme provider and arrange an interview without giving them your details you will just be person x. The adviser will issue you with formal notification to attend. If you don't then its a four week sanction the first time then each subsequent failure is 13 weeks.
  • baza52
    How would they be able to say you didnt attend if they dont know who you are?
    How could JCP prove they had booked a cliament in in the first place?

    Just curious. Do you have a link to confirm this at all
  • busy mom
    The jcp adviser calls the provider whilst you are there, you become a reference number, the jcp adviser issues you with the appropriate letter that mandates you to attend, the person with the reference number fails to go, the reference number is known to link to the said job seeker so therefore dma action can be taken. not really that hard to trace.
    As for you refuse to take the details of the interview or you state you are not going, the jcp adviser notes the system that you have failed to take the details. When doubts are sent to a decision maker it is up to you to prove you have good cause or reason for failing to attend.

    You say didn't know where or when, JCP adviser will state well you failed to take the notification when issued to you! This method has been used and resulted in sanction.

    Easier option would be to go, surely any help to get into work should be accepted?
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