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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Jenny
    • By MSE Jenny 1st Mar 12, 3:18 PM
    • 1,218Posts
    • 3,554Thanks
    MSE Jenny
    Extend Your Lease guide discussion
    • #1
    • 1st Mar 12, 3:18 PM
    Extend Your Lease guide discussion 1st Mar 12 at 3:18 PM



    Hi all, we've written a new Extend Your Lease guide to help you extend at a fair price.

    How did you find the info? If you've done it, how did it go and do you have any other tips you'd add? How much value do you think it added to your property?

    Thanks
    for your help!


    MSE Jenny

    Last edited by MSE Jenny; 02-03-2012 at 12:59 PM.
Page 29
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 17th Jun 17, 11:22 AM
    • 4,979 Posts
    • 4,636 Thanks
    eddddy
    Is it okay for me to use the same solicitor for my lease extension as the solicitor the management company uses? I thought the management company act for the freeholder. The management company have told me I can't contact the freeholder directly regarding extending my lease so I am confused.
    Originally posted by yellowtiger
    In general, you can't use the same solicitor as the other party.

    Are you saying that the management company have told you to use the same solicitor?

    I don't really follow what you are trying to say in the rest of your post.
    • pdhan
    • By pdhan 17th Jun 17, 5:31 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pdhan
    Bank won't lend towards shared ownership lease extension
    Wanted to see if anyone has had a similar experience to this and what they did about it.

    The lease on my shared ownership flat is getting very short with only 71 years remaining. The issue is that I have to pay for 100% of the extension whilst only owning 50% of the flat. Because of this the bank refuses to lend towards the extension as they argue – not unreasonably – that I'm adding value to the share of the flat that I don't own.

    Has anyone had any luck with convincing their housing association of the intrinsic unfairness of this? Alternatively is there a bank willing to lend towards shared ownership lease extensions?
    • Agent57
    • By Agent57 26th Jun 17, 3:45 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Agent57
    I feel like I'm taking part in one big game and I'm paying the fees of all the other players.


    I paid for a valuation that came out at £24k and the landlord made a counter offer of £30k. If I contest this and win I am told that the fees could come out at £3,000 per party so the landlord knows he can charge £6,000 over the odds and get away with it. Heads he wins, tales I lose. I have no choice. I can't take my business elsewhere.
    • cpfcstar
    • By cpfcstar 1st Aug 17, 11:40 AM
    • 77 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    cpfcstar
    Please can someone help me with a question I have about lease extensions.

    I am looking to extend the lease on my property with remaining of 69 years, looking to bring it up to 99.

    I've not owned the property for 2 years yet, so I've been waiting until I do (early next year). I did think about the 'informal route' when you can informally arrange earlier for it with the leaseholder, but having casually mentioned this in an email it wasn't acknowledged so I didn't push it.

    So now going down the route of extending it after the full two years of ownership, I read that you can start the process several months earlier to enact on the precise two year date. So I contacted the leaseholder and they replied that they 'cannot extend the lease in this financial year for tax purposes because they are already extending a different one of theirs.'

    Are they within their right to do this? It would only mean me waiting another four months but I need to renew the lease as I am eager to sell and move quite far away for work commitments but have been unable to do so because of the lease problem.

    Any help is appreciated, thank you.
    • AirJoe
    • By AirJoe 1st Aug 17, 12:30 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    AirJoe
    If you've contacted the freeholder about adding 30 years then you're enquiring about a private arrangement, which they can put off if they want to. What I think you want to do is a statutory lease extension as that's when the 2 year rule applies. You do this by serving a Section 42 notice to the freeholder.

    I strongly recommend looking at the leasehold advisory service website:

    http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/lease-extension-getting-started/
    • cpfcstar
    • By cpfcstar 1st Aug 17, 2:24 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    cpfcstar
    If you've contacted the freeholder about adding 30 years then you're enquiring about a private arrangement, which they can put off if they want to. What I think you want to do is a statutory lease extension as that's when the 2 year rule applies. You do this by serving a Section 42 notice to the freeholder.

    I strongly recommend looking at the leasehold advisory service website:

    http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/lease-extension-getting-started/
    Originally posted by AirJoe
    If I serve them with a section 42 notice in January, can they still delay it until April?
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 1st Aug 17, 4:33 PM
    • 2,476 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    da_rule
    They can't delay it per se but your section 42 notice has to give a period of at least 2 months for response. There then is a negotiating period of at least 2 months (but no more than 6) before either party can commence court or tribunal proceedings. So, if you serve notice in January then it is possible that the matter won't complete until April just based on the statutory time limits.

    Also, you have to qualify on the date you serve the notice, not the date of the new lease.
    • Agent57
    • By Agent57 4th Aug 17, 5:34 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Agent57
    Be prepared for all sorts of fun and games. My landlord / Freeholder has lots of companies with similar names and you have to serve a S42 on the right one. Also apparently there is an intermediate leaseholder who holds the 999 year lease above mine. Now the landlord refers me to negotiate with his surveyor who in turn says he has not been instructed to negotiate. They are all just giving me the runaround.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 5th Aug 17, 10:20 PM
    • 2,476 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    da_rule
    Be prepared for all sorts of fun and games. My landlord / Freeholder has lots of companies with similar names and you have to serve a S42 on the right one. Also apparently there is an intermediate leaseholder who holds the 999 year lease above mine. Now the landlord refers me to negotiate with his surveyor who in turn says he has not been instructed to negotiate. They are all just giving me the runaround.
    Originally posted by Agent57
    Are you using a solicitor? It really shouldn't be that difficult to identify your landlord.

    Then just serve the notice, and if they don't reply in the prescribed form by the deadline you go to the tribunal and get a new lease based on the terms you set out in your notice.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 5th Aug 17, 11:34 PM
    • 4,979 Posts
    • 4,636 Thanks
    eddddy
    Be prepared for all sorts of fun and games. My landlord / Freeholder has lots of companies with similar names and you have to serve a S42 on the right one. Also apparently there is an intermediate leaseholder who holds the 999 year lease above mine. Now the landlord refers me to negotiate with his surveyor who in turn says he has not been instructed to negotiate. They are all just giving me the runaround.
    Originally posted by Agent57
    If the intermediate leaseholder has a 999 year lease, they will almost certainly be your "competent landlord" - not the freeholder.

    So you should serve the s42 on the intermediate leaseholder, and negotiate with them.
    • Agent57
    • By Agent57 8th Aug 17, 9:37 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Agent57
    Thanks for the replies.


    Yes, I am using a solicitor and they did find it difficult to identify the correct landlord as they have many sub-companies with similar names. Just one of many obstacles to overcome.
    • AliceBanned
    • By AliceBanned 12th Aug 17, 10:17 AM
    • 2,332 Posts
    • 1,084 Thanks
    AliceBanned
    I have a shared ownership with 84 years left on the lease. I own 40% and can't afford to increase ownership to 100%.


    I have had a look on the housing association's website and it says that lease extension is only possible for 100% owners. Looking at this I am guessing it might be worth me selling up in 2 years and seeing whether I can find another shared ownership flat or a flat in a cheaper area and buy 100%. What would happen if I have to stay on and see the lease getting shorter and have no option to do anything about it? Presume the flat would lose some value but not sure how much or how serious this situation would be? Quite a few flats in the block are buy-to-lets and there is a lot of demand in the area with values having risen by about 30% since I bought it in 2013.
    DFW - goal December 2019

    _________________________
    • amal
    • By amal 15th Aug 17, 7:50 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    amal
    Extend a 54yr lease in London now OR wait?
    I have 54 yrs left on my flat, and panicking. Last year he freeholder wanted £50k, but my surveyor said I shouldn't pay more than £45k. One year on, and the freeholder now want £65k! I don't know what to do. This seems like a downward trap. I can try to borrow the money now and pay he £64k or wait for decision Over he Mundy case in the court of appeal, due January 2018 to see if that helps rule in favour of a new model which could make the extension cost some 25% cheaper (for me that would be under £50k rather than £64k). But if the case is unsuccessful it could add more to the lease cost...

    An advice would be appreciated
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 15th Aug 17, 7:54 PM
    • 2,476 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    da_rule
    Every year that you allow the lease to waste means the renewal price will go up.

    It isn't really possible to advise on whether you should wait for the outcome of a case. However, I believe it's the hearing that is happening in January, the verdict could be months later. When is the anniversary of your lease? When do you lose another year?
    • amal
    • By amal 15th Aug 17, 8:01 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    amal
    Thanks - the anniversary of lease is November. It then hits 53yrs.

    The court of appeal hearing is January 2018. If the judgment goes in favour of leaseholds and allows a new model of calculation which will bring down the cost, then it will be appealed by the freeholder, to the Supreme Court. This whole case could drag out for another 2 years without any guarantee.

    I've been told there could be opportunity for some legislation in this area following the consultation recently on banning leasehold for new builds (q.21 of the consultation was open for further recommendations). I don't know what the chances are of any specific legislation to help with these unfair spiralling costs.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 15th Aug 17, 8:06 PM
    • 2,476 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    da_rule
    I don't know what the chances are of any specific legislation to help with these unfair spiralling costs.
    Originally posted by amal
    Personally, I think a freeholder being compelled to extend a lease is pretty unfair. The freeholder granted someone permission to live in their property for a certain amount of time and subsequent leaseholders chose to take assignment of that lease knowing how long was left on it.

    If there are going to be statutory obligations to renew then it is only fair that the freeholder be compensated for the loss of the opportunity to grant a new lease when the interest reverts back to them.
    • amal
    • By amal 15th Aug 17, 8:15 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    amal
    Leaseholders like myself did not know we would be in a downward trap to reversion. Leasehold properties with terms greater than 80 yrs are effectively priced the same as a freehold. The delays, admin and legal costs from freeholders Steve to exacerbate the situation for leaseholders. I don't disagree that the freeholder should be compensated for loss of rent but I see no logic the "marriage value", particularly where the calculations seem arbitrary with more onus being being placed on the "lift" in value due to the extension rights. The lift in value only exists because the law has disadvantaged leaseholders running low.
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 15th Aug 17, 9:26 PM
    • 3,361 Posts
    • 3,592 Thanks
    always_sunny
    Leaseholders like myself did not know we would be in a downward trap to reversion.
    Originally posted by amal
    You never read your lease?
    Is it like interest only mortgagees who never knew that eventually they had to repay the capital?
    Expat with an EU passport
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 15th Aug 17, 9:29 PM
    • 2,476 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    da_rule
    I think there is an underlying issue which is a lack of understanding about what a leasehold property actually is. It is only ever a countdown to reversion. I think there are an alarming number of leaseholders that don't seem to realise this.

    Same with service charge provisions. Most leases essentially allow the freeholder to write a blank cheque for works to the building.

    In terms of the lift, the current system seems fair. The freeholder should be entitled to recover the property in say 50 years. He could then sell it or grant a new lease or develop it, all of which would generate income, or he could live in it himself. His opportunity to do any of these (with the exception of development with a court order and compensation paid to the leaseholder) has been lost for a further 90 years. Therefore the compensation should reflect this loss. Obviously the longer that's left on the lease at the point of renewal the less this loss will be as the opportunity to do any of the above is more remote by virtue of the time remaining.
    • Nnenne1
    • By Nnenne1 16th Aug 17, 3:13 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Nnenne1
    Always add the max you can, 99years. Speak to a solicitor. If you add 30 years, before you know how t, you're back to square one.

    It's your right to add 99 years, the price difference is not much.
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