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  • FIRST POST
    bernlyn
    water softner help in chosing and is this true
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 07, 5:33 AM
    water softner help in chosing and is this true 7th Feb 07 at 5:33 AM
    i have decided to get either a kinetico 2020c or a crown Twin Cylinder Non Electric water softner.

    1. HOWEVER when i phoned and enquired about the crown the sales person said that yes they were good and gave me the sales pitch. i then asked about the kinetico and she said that it was the best out of the 2. the price difference was crown £650 and kinetico £840 i said i wanted to get more quotes.

    2. the 2 company i phoned said that the crown was very good and was a good choice. when i asked about the kinetico she said right away that they werent very reliable. she then stated that the companies that sell the kinetico get bigger profits on selling the kinetico softners and they installed over 280 crowns last year and only had 4/5 faulty machines but the kinetico they had just over 40% returns on faulty machines.

    i also said that i cannt find any reviews on the crowns and she said that crown make other softners aswell such as Twin Tec, mini max, calmag, homesoft and a few others. is this true and how can i find this out. i have tried the net but cannt find anything to verify this.

    the price of the crown[£636] and the kinetico was £699 and compared to the first company there is a big price difference


    how would you decide which one to install.
Page 52
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 29th May 17, 7:23 AM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 19,054 Thanks
    Doc N
    Im favouring your recommended softener, Tapworks I'm guessing it's going to be more complicated with regards siting it and plumbing. Our garage is not intergrated but it does having plumbing as we considered siting the washing machine there. need to speak to my brother in law as he is a plumber and knows our system and I seem to recall him saying something about being not straightforward.
    I can't ask him to install it as he's up to his eyes in work
    Originally posted by Bykerlass
    It's not so much whether the garage is integral or not, but whether the main water supply comes into the house that way (the rising main) - it's common enough with integral garages but less common where the garage is separate.

    The point is that the softener has to soften the water for the whole house (excluding the kitchen cold tap and any outside taps) so it usually has to be fitted near to where the supply enters the property. That might be under the sink, it might be in the garage, or it could be somewhere else. Your brother-in-law's doubtless right - but nothing's impossible in plumbing terms. Just expensive and maybe unsightly. Good luck!
    • SomeOne
    • By SomeOne 3rd Jun 17, 2:53 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    SomeOne
    I'm currently looking for a water softener with a high flow rate of around 50l/min .

    I've read through most of this thread and have narrowed it down to 4 potential choices, but i'm stuck on deciding which one to go for:

    Tapworks AD11 - Tablet Salt
    Monarch Midi - Tablet Salt
    Harvey's Crown 300 - Block Salt
    Harvey's Homewater - Tablet Salt

    I've noticed that a number of users rate the Tapworks and the Monarch which are half the price of the Harvey's ones. But reading up on them, both the Tapworks and Monarch appear to use substantially more salt per regeneration (over 1kg) whereas the Harvey's ones use less than 0.5kg.

    Unless i'm missing something then wouldn't the Harvey's ones work out cheaper in the longer run?

    Also what's to stop anyone putting salt tablets in a block salt only softener? At the end of the day presumably its the same salt but in a different shape?

    Edit: I have unmetered water so am less concerned about water usage for regeneration.
    Last edited by SomeOne; 03-06-2017 at 3:15 PM. Reason: Unmetered water
    ---------
    SomeOne
    • HP Source
    • By HP Source 3rd Jun 17, 6:42 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    HP Source
    How much salt is used per regeneration tells you nothing useful, I'm afraid. To make sense of the running costs you also need to know how much softened water a freshly regenerated tank of resin is capable of providing.

    I haven't looked up the figures but I suspect you'll find the figure for the Harvey's softener to be considerably lower than the others. If that's the case it will be regenerating more frequently.

    You also need to bear in mind the block salt tends to be substantially more expensive than tablet salt.
    • SomeOne
    • By SomeOne 3rd Jun 17, 8:07 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    SomeOne
    Thanks, I was starting to realise that may be a better comparison when I got to around page 40 something.

    I'm starting to veer towards the Tapworks, but I could just as easily choose the Monarch.

    May I ask which softener you have?
    ---------
    SomeOne
    • HP Source
    • By HP Source 4th Jun 17, 8:57 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    HP Source
    Mine is an Atlantis AT210. It was a factory refurbished unit with a one year guarantee which I got for the very reasonable figure of £200.

    The reason for choosing this one was twofold. Firstly I wanted a softener with one of the industry standard control valves as it's then much easier to get spares. The second was the it needed to be slim to fit into the space I had available.

    It's worked faultlessly for the year or so it's been fitted.
    • SomeOne
    • By SomeOne 4th Jun 17, 12:58 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    SomeOne
    Thanks that looks good too.

    I think i've decided to go with the Monarch as it has a higher flow rate and a longer parts guarantee than the tapworks.
    ---------
    SomeOne
    • peterpaz
    • By peterpaz 11th Jun 17, 7:24 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    peterpaz
    Hello

    I've read pretty much every comment on this thread and it's been extremely useful - so thanks to all contributors! (even the bickering was entertaining :-)

    I'm still a bit confused about the recommendations so I'd ideally like 2 or 3 of the best to choose from. I don't want any reps trying to shout about how good there's are... I need honest, basic non-biased suggestions / recommendations if thats ok.

    Here's my requirements:

    • I live in a 2/3 bedroom semi in North Yorkshire. 2 occupants.
    • I don't use a particularly large amount of water. (shower once a day, odd bath now and then, wash the car... pretty normal use I'd say).

    I have a Worcester Greenstar 37CDI Combi Boiler. (can this handle water from a water softener?)
    The combi is in a cupboard where the water supply tap is.
    I can comfortably accommodate a H65mm x D25mm x W40mm Unit. (or slightly larger if need be.)
    I want a Single cylinder Unit
    I want a metered model (I go away fairly often)
    I want to use (cheaper) granular salt
    I want it to be maintenance free (except me cleaning the salt tank out once in a while)
    • Would like very little control and as easy to understand and set-up as possible ( 'no-frills' control panel)
    • Lower end of the budget (don't need anything expensive/fancy)

    • Do I need to bypass the kitchen cold water tap? (I know very little about plumbing so can't get my head around how to do this as it'd be sited at the other end of the kitchen to the sink).

    • Can my outside tap(s) use water softener water? (would like to use the hosepipe for washing the car and not having limescale watermarks ideally).

    • Is water softener water good for an aquarium (eg: certain fish like soft water). This isn'y a deal breaker... just thought I'd ask.

    Sorry for the long list - but I'm hoping the more info I give will narrow down (and rule out) a lot of makes/models so I can get a small choice to choose one from.

    Many thanks
    Peter
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 11th Jun 17, 7:37 PM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 19,054 Thanks
    Doc N
    Hello

    I've read pretty much every comment on this thread and it's been extremely useful - so thanks to all contributors! (even the bickering was entertaining :-)

    I'm still a bit confused about the recommendations so I'd ideally like 2 or 3 of the best to choose from. I don't want any reps trying to shout about how good there's are... I need honest, basic non-biased suggestions / recommendations if thats ok.

    Here's my requirements:

    • I live in a 2/3 bedroom semi in North Yorkshire. 2 occupants.
    • I don't use a particularly large amount of water. (shower once a day, odd bath now and then, wash the car... pretty normal use I'd say).

    I have a Worcester Greenstar 37CDI Combi Boiler. (can this handle water from a water softener?)

    Best check this with Worcester Bosch

    The combi is in a cupboard where the water supply tap is.
    I can comfortably accommodate a H65mm x D25mm x W40mm Unit. (or slightly larger if need be.)
    I want a Single cylinder Unit
    I want a metered model (I go away fairly often)
    I want to use (cheaper) granular salt
    I want it to be maintenance free (except me cleaning the salt tank out once in a while)
    • Would like very little control and as easy to understand and set-up as possible ( 'no-frills' control panel)
    • Lower end of the budget (don't need anything expensive/fancy)

    I've recommended Tapworks models above as being particularly good value - I'd still say the same. One of the smaller models should suit.

    • Do I need to bypass the kitchen cold water tap? (I know very little about plumbing so can't get my head around how to do this as it'd be sited at the other end of the kitchen to the sink).

    Ideally, yes - softened water is high in sodium and not recommended for everyday drinking.

    • Can my outside tap(s) use water softener water? (would like to use the hosepipe for washing the car and not having limescale watermarks ideally).

    No reason why not - though it will increase your salt usage, particularly if you use it for the garden as well.

    • Is water softener water good for an aquarium (eg: certain fish like soft water). This isn'y a deal breaker... just thought I'd ask.

    I'd guess not - but that is just a guess. Best ask an expert on fish.

    Sorry for the long list - but I'm hoping the more info I give will narrow down (and rule out) a lot of makes/models so I can get a small choice to choose one from.

    Many thanks
    Peter
    Originally posted by peterpaz
    See above.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 11th Jun 17, 7:41 PM
    • 7,127 Posts
    • 7,147 Thanks
    pogofish
    Hi,

    I'm a plumber and install loads of water softnenors.

    Depending on the size of the house, I always recommend the CalMag CalSoft Mini or the Monarch Ultimate Midi.

    Give me a shout if you have any questions.

    Thanks,

    Richard
    Originally posted by multiplumb
    Given your clear agreement to the rules on on touting for business and posting commercially here, I would say you just outed yourself as a really shifty piece of work who has no respect for your customers or any applicable rules!
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 11th Jun 17, 7:46 PM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 19,054 Thanks
    Doc N
    Given your clear agreement to the rules on on touting for business and posting commercially here, I would say you just outed yourself as a really shifty piece of work who has no respect for your customers or any applicable rules!
    Originally posted by pogofish
    I reported that as spam as soon as it appeared, but it takes a few reports to get rid of unwanted junk.

    Suggest others hit the spam button on multiplumb's post to get it removed.
    • peterpaz
    • By peterpaz 11th Jun 17, 8:02 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    peterpaz
    Is the Tapworks AD11 Water Softener metered?
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 11th Jun 17, 8:08 PM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 19,054 Thanks
    Doc N
    Is the Tapworks AD11 Water Softener metered?
    Originally posted by peterpaz
    It is: http://tapworks.co.uk/water-softener-ad11/

    Best bought on eBay for price, I think - several good sellers when I bought mine.

    I stress - I have nothing whatever to do with Tapworks. I was a happy Ecowater customer for many years until I discovered they were near-identical to Tapworks models sold at a fraction of the price.

    A few more owners in this thread who may feed back their views, good or bad.
    • SomeOne
    • By SomeOne 11th Jun 17, 8:30 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    SomeOne
    I think softened water is discouraged for garden use...

    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=691



    See above.
    Originally posted by Doc N
    ---------
    SomeOne
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 11th Jun 17, 8:34 PM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 19,054 Thanks
    Doc N
    I think softened water is discouraged for garden use...

    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=691
    Originally posted by SomeOne
    A very good point - high sodium. As well as increased costs.
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