Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    bernlyn
    water softner help in chosing and is this true
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 07, 5:33 AM
    water softner help in chosing and is this true 7th Feb 07 at 5:33 AM
    i have decided to get either a kinetico 2020c or a crown Twin Cylinder Non Electric water softner.

    1. HOWEVER when i phoned and enquired about the crown the sales person said that yes they were good and gave me the sales pitch. i then asked about the kinetico and she said that it was the best out of the 2. the price difference was crown £650 and kinetico £840 i said i wanted to get more quotes.

    2. the 2 company i phoned said that the crown was very good and was a good choice. when i asked about the kinetico she said right away that they werent very reliable. she then stated that the companies that sell the kinetico get bigger profits on selling the kinetico softners and they installed over 280 crowns last year and only had 4/5 faulty machines but the kinetico they had just over 40% returns on faulty machines.

    i also said that i cannt find any reviews on the crowns and she said that crown make other softners aswell such as Twin Tec, mini max, calmag, homesoft and a few others. is this true and how can i find this out. i have tried the net but cannt find anything to verify this.

    the price of the crown[£636] and the kinetico was £699 and compared to the first company there is a big price difference


    how would you decide which one to install.
Page 51
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 12th Jan 17, 8:14 PM
    • 6,282 Posts
    • 19,186 Thanks
    Doc N
    Funny you should ask.......because I had a Sensatronic 518 myself, which ran quite happily for around 17 years. Never serviced - just kept going.

    Towards the end of that time though the resin was going, and it was using a bag of salt a month. Rather more than it should have been using.

    Like you, I looked at replacing it with another Ecowater at a very high price. Then I discovered, after a bit of research, that Tapworks and Ecowater are one and the same company, making near-identical machines sold through different channels at very different prices.

    I won't bore you with all the details (most of it's in the posts above) - suffice to say though that I'll never buy another Ecowater. They're just stupidly overpriced. I've had the AD11 for almost 4 faultless years now - self-installed. It's pretty much identical to the Ecowater, with just a few changes.

    Never had the hardness checked (though you can get a kit for very little that will do it for you) - I know from just rubbing some soap between my fingers if the water's starting to go hard. A little practice will show you what I mean.

    As for servicing, the Tapworks has never had anyone near it, and neither did the Ecowater. There's precious little to go wrong, and for the cost of 4 or 5 services you could buy a new machine!

    In short - go Tapworks. So long as they continue to produce reliable machines which mirror the Ecowater models it would be crazy to pay near three times the price for Ecowater.

    Anyone else any experiences of Tapworks to feed back perhaps? I'm starting to sound like an advertising agency for them, but genuinely I have no connection with them, or indeed softeners at all. I've just been using softeners for long enough to realise how overpriced the big brands are!
    • Wise old owl
    • By Wise old owl 13th Jan 17, 11:27 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Wise old owl
    Thanks very much @Doc N. That's put my mind at rest. I'll go ahead and order the AD11.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 14th Jan 17, 6:43 AM
    • 6,282 Posts
    • 19,186 Thanks
    Doc N
    Thanks very much @Doc N. That's put my mind at rest. I'll go ahead and order the AD11.
    Originally posted by Wise old owl
    I'll be very surprised if you're not delighted with it - I only wish I'd been aware of Tapworks before I bought the last very highly priced Ecowater.

    One small point - buying online will probably be your cheapest option. There are several places selling them at less than £450 delivered.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 14th Jan 17, 7:25 AM
    • 31,618 Posts
    • 37,299 Thanks
    Browntoa
    I've got a tapworks AD11 , simple to fill up and forget

    Would also recommend
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I'm a volunteer to help them run smoothly and I can move and merge posts there. However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 16th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    About to move to our new home (3 weeks and counting ��) it is in a very hard water area in SW. So fitting a water softener appears to be the way to go - looking at the Tapworks AD11 or a Monarch one.

    I have a few questions that I would love answered by people other than sale persons. I spoke to 3 companies and had quotes between £1000-1700 to in stall!! But I really want to know if our house and situation are suitable.

    1. Can you have a unit with an immersion heater for taps and electric shower?

    2. Will it impact on our heating system - backboiler supplying heat to 5 radiators?

    3. We are to have a water meter apparently as this is a new regulation for new account holders. What is the cost implications? I did read on one site that the cost of water was about 60p per regeneration clean (hope I got that term right...)

    Very grateful for any help or points in the right direction for further reading.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 16th Mar 17, 9:00 PM
    • 6,282 Posts
    • 19,186 Thanks
    Doc N
    £1000-£1700 to install? Crazy money, even it it includes the softener.

    I know the AD11 - around £450 to buy, and perhaps £100-£200 to install?

    1. Can you have a unit with an immersion heater for taps and electric shower? - Yes, no reason why not. We have.

    2. Will it impact on our heating system - backboiler supplying heat to 5 radiators? - Don't see why it should, but best check that with the boiler manufacturer. Some claim softened water causes corrosion problems.

    3. We are to have a water meter apparently as this is a new regulation for new account holders. What is the cost implications? I did read on one site that the cost of water was about 60p per regeneration clean (hope I got that term right...)

    - I doubt it would be as much as 60p but I have no figures for the AD11. It's not a factor I've ever worried about.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 16th Mar 17, 9:11 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    Thank you Doc N really set my mind at rest. We have someone booked to service the parkray so will ask them and maybe check with hunter parkray.

    Need to phone the water company can't find anywhere information that Wessex is water stressed. Tel operator was bordering on rude with her insistence that we had no choice and now after a glass of wine I can see no where on their website that it is compulsory or anything else on the net...will be sorting that out.
    • malc_b
    • By malc_b 17th Mar 17, 7:54 AM
    • 967 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    malc_b
    You're right that water costs are often overlooked. For the machines I've looked at water is about 20%-30% of the total cost (i.e. salt is 70-80%) or about 23p/regen. It's better to go for a larger machine (single tank rather than 2) because each regen uses water and smaller machines regen more often. Why not ask tapworks how much water is used each regen and work it out?

    I'd also ask them for the regen water vs water pressure figures. Often the regen flush water is just timed, even on metered machines. The time is is based on a minimum pressure spec which most people will be above and so use more than the figures says. It could be worthwhile having a pressure reducer fitted to lower the regen water usage.

    I'm on wessex water too and my figures from last year (not checked if it has gone up) are £3.79 per 1000 l so 0.379p per litre. Note that includes the water and sewage cost since you pay both based on water usage unless you are on a septic tank.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 18th Mar 17, 11:45 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    Luckily no septic tank. I guess we are going to have to have one, just didn't like someone speaking to me as though I was an idiot but when I asked where was the legislation not being able to tell me.

    It doesn't sound as if we are going to be high users, we have a water butt in the garden and an electric shower etc.

    Deffo looking to get online
    • Aphid
    • By Aphid 20th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aphid
    I am on the verge of buying a water softener, actually a BWT WS355. Although I understand that the plumbing part is quite straightforward (for a plumber, anyway) I am aware that this and similar models require a 12V power supply. Having one fitted by an electrician sounds like it could be expensive(???), given the nature of kitchen units making access to electrics very awkward. Under my sink there are no power sockets - understandably - although there are power sockets on the walls above the base units, and a socket a few base units along, powering the dish washer. Has anyone come up with an ingenious way of running a power supply without the need for an electrician?
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 20th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • 3,763 Posts
    • 2,351 Thanks
    csgohan4
    perhaps not acquiring one with needing an electric supply, there are plenty on the market. I use a Monarch Plumbsoft Solo Ultra myself
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 20th Mar 17, 3:43 PM
    • 6,282 Posts
    • 19,186 Thanks
    Doc N
    I am on the verge of buying a water softener, actually a BWT WS355. Although I understand that the plumbing part is quite straightforward (for a plumber, anyway) I am aware that this and similar models require a 12V power supply. Having one fitted by an electrician sounds like it could be expensive(???), given the nature of kitchen units making access to electrics very awkward. Under my sink there are no power sockets - understandably - although there are power sockets on the walls above the base units, and a socket a few base units along, powering the dish washer. Has anyone come up with an ingenious way of running a power supply without the need for an electrician?
    Originally posted by Aphid
    Couldn't you just use an extension cable - most softeners just plug in, rather than being wired in.
    • Aphid
    • By Aphid 20th Mar 17, 4:00 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aphid
    Something like an extension cable is what I have in mind. I have a spare socket on the wall nearby. Maybe I could run the cable through the worktop, down the back of the base unit, underneath the base units and back up into the unit that will house the softener. Plug on one end, socket on the other? That way cable hidden out of sight. The other option I am weighing up is similar with an extension positioned under the base unit emerging through a small hole and into the plug. The 12V socket would them be fed over the back of the base unit to plug into the extension underneath the same unit. My only concern there is the remote possibility of a water leak.
    • dca860
    • By dca860 27th May 17, 7:10 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    dca860
    It is true
    I'm 10 years late in replying, but for other potential buyers, the Crown, Harveys, TwinTec, DualFlow, Calsoft, MiniMax etc are all the same inside and are all manufactured by Harveys in Old Woking, Surrey.
    In my view, they are better than Kinetico (the same chap designed both but his later development has left Kinetico behind on technology
    • Annie1960
    • By Annie1960 27th May 17, 8:21 PM
    • 2,668 Posts
    • 1,491 Thanks
    Annie1960
    Very old thread, but if anyone is thinking of getting a water softener someone I know said he made a mistake getting it fitted where the mains comes into the house as he had no tap without softened water.

    This made it difficult for drinking water, cooking, making tea etc, so it may be a good idea to keep the main kitchen tap free of softener.
    • malc_b
    • By malc_b 28th May 17, 9:51 AM
    • 967 Posts
    • 376 Thanks
    malc_b
    The kitchen tap should not be softened as this adds sodium to the water which is not advised for people sensitive to sodium (i.e. who need low salt diet) such as those with high blood pressure and babies. You might consider an in-line filter for the kitchen sink. These are usually for taste but some filters say they are anti-scale too. Inline filters claim to remove chlorine and fluorine so you might want to look at the effect drinking this water has on children (i.e. will they be missing fluoride so have weaker teeth?).
    • Bykerlass
    • By Bykerlass 28th May 17, 5:07 PM
    • 882 Posts
    • 579 Thanks
    Bykerlass
    I've read the whole of this thread on water softeners....I really need to get a life.
    I now at least feel a bit better informed. I need to first find out exactly where to put the thing, my kitchen is fitted with the intergrated washing machine on one side of the sink cupboard and the dishwasher at the other. Looking under the sink. It unless the waste taps etc can be remodelled to make room for it I'm stumped
    I USED TO BE INDECISIVE BUT NOW I'M NOT SO SURE!

    Rich people tell you that money doesn't bring you happiness just so the poor people don't feel jealous.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 28th May 17, 6:39 PM
    • 6,282 Posts
    • 19,186 Thanks
    Doc N
    I've read the whole of this thread on water softeners....I really need to get a life.
    I now at least feel a bit better informed. I need to first find out exactly where to put the thing, my kitchen is fitted with the intergrated washing machine on one side of the sink cupboard and the dishwasher at the other. Looking under the sink. It unless the waste taps etc can be remodelled to make room for it I'm stumped
    Originally posted by Bykerlass
    No doubt about it, they do require a bit of space. A decent plumber will advise you what's feasible, and what's not, and he may be able to rejig the plumbing to cope with the softener if there's physically a gap to get it into. It may have to go somewhere else entirely, but that's likely to involve a lot of cost and pipework.

    Often if there's an integral garage the rising main will be there, and if so there's likely to be a bit more room.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 28th May 17, 6:49 PM
    • 2,859 Posts
    • 6,461 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    Very old thread, but if anyone is thinking of getting a water softener someone I know said he made a mistake getting it fitted where the mains comes into the house as he had no tap without softened water.

    This made it difficult for drinking water, cooking, making tea etc, so it may be a good idea to keep the main kitchen tap free of softener.
    Originally posted by Annie1960
    Not only is it a good idea, it is standard practice.

    It is also advisable not to feed softened water to any outside or garden tap used for cleaning, watering etc as it wastes salt and some plants don't like soft water.
    Who'll remember the ones
    who only rode in them to die
    All their lives are just a smudge
    of smoke against the sky
    • Bykerlass
    • By Bykerlass 29th May 17, 12:26 AM
    • 882 Posts
    • 579 Thanks
    Bykerlass
    No doubt about it, they do require a bit of space. A decent plumber will advise you what's feasible, and what's not, and he may be able to rejig the plumbing to cope with the softener if there's physically a gap to get it into. It may have to go somewhere else entirely, but that's likely to involve a lot of cost and pipework.

    Often if there's an integral garage the rising main will be there, and if so there's likely to be a bit more room.
    Originally posted by Doc N
    Im favouring your recommended softener, Tapworks I'm guessing it's going to be more complicated with regards siting it and plumbing. Our garage is not intergrated but it does having plumbing as we considered siting the washing machine there. need to speak to my brother in law as he is a plumber and knows our system and I seem to recall him saying something about being not straightforward.
    I can't ask him to install it as he's up to his eyes in work
    I USED TO BE INDECISIVE BUT NOW I'M NOT SO SURE!

    Rich people tell you that money doesn't bring you happiness just so the poor people don't feel jealous.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,949Posts Today

8,602Users online

Martin's Twitter