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  • FIRST POST
    bernlyn
    water softner help in chosing and is this true
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 07, 4:33 AM
    water softner help in chosing and is this true 7th Feb 07 at 4:33 AM
    i have decided to get either a kinetico 2020c or a crown Twin Cylinder Non Electric water softner.

    1. HOWEVER when i phoned and enquired about the crown the sales person said that yes they were good and gave me the sales pitch. i then asked about the kinetico and she said that it was the best out of the 2. the price difference was crown £650 and kinetico £840 i said i wanted to get more quotes.

    2. the 2 company i phoned said that the crown was very good and was a good choice. when i asked about the kinetico she said right away that they werent very reliable. she then stated that the companies that sell the kinetico get bigger profits on selling the kinetico softners and they installed over 280 crowns last year and only had 4/5 faulty machines but the kinetico they had just over 40% returns on faulty machines.

    i also said that i cannt find any reviews on the crowns and she said that crown make other softners aswell such as Twin Tec, mini max, calmag, homesoft and a few others. is this true and how can i find this out. i have tried the net but cannt find anything to verify this.

    the price of the crown[£636] and the kinetico was £699 and compared to the first company there is a big price difference


    how would you decide which one to install.
Page 51
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 12th Jan 17, 7:14 PM
    • 5,994 Posts
    • 18,886 Thanks
    Doc N
    Funny you should ask.......because I had a Sensatronic 518 myself, which ran quite happily for around 17 years. Never serviced - just kept going.

    Towards the end of that time though the resin was going, and it was using a bag of salt a month. Rather more than it should have been using.

    Like you, I looked at replacing it with another Ecowater at a very high price. Then I discovered, after a bit of research, that Tapworks and Ecowater are one and the same company, making near-identical machines sold through different channels at very different prices.

    I won't bore you with all the details (most of it's in the posts above) - suffice to say though that I'll never buy another Ecowater. They're just stupidly overpriced. I've had the AD11 for almost 4 faultless years now - self-installed. It's pretty much identical to the Ecowater, with just a few changes.

    Never had the hardness checked (though you can get a kit for very little that will do it for you) - I know from just rubbing some soap between my fingers if the water's starting to go hard. A little practice will show you what I mean.

    As for servicing, the Tapworks has never had anyone near it, and neither did the Ecowater. There's precious little to go wrong, and for the cost of 4 or 5 services you could buy a new machine!

    In short - go Tapworks. So long as they continue to produce reliable machines which mirror the Ecowater models it would be crazy to pay near three times the price for Ecowater.

    Anyone else any experiences of Tapworks to feed back perhaps? I'm starting to sound like an advertising agency for them, but genuinely I have no connection with them, or indeed softeners at all. I've just been using softeners for long enough to realise how overpriced the big brands are!
    • Wise old owl
    • By Wise old owl 13th Jan 17, 10:27 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Wise old owl
    Thanks very much @Doc N. That's put my mind at rest. I'll go ahead and order the AD11.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 14th Jan 17, 5:43 AM
    • 5,994 Posts
    • 18,886 Thanks
    Doc N
    Thanks very much @Doc N. That's put my mind at rest. I'll go ahead and order the AD11.
    Originally posted by Wise old owl
    I'll be very surprised if you're not delighted with it - I only wish I'd been aware of Tapworks before I bought the last very highly priced Ecowater.

    One small point - buying online will probably be your cheapest option. There are several places selling them at less than £450 delivered.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 14th Jan 17, 6:25 AM
    • 30,768 Posts
    • 36,405 Thanks
    Browntoa
    I've got a tapworks AD11 , simple to fill up and forget

    Would also recommend
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I'm a volunteer to help them run smoothly and I can move and merge posts there. However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 16th Mar 17, 7:29 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    About to move to our new home (3 weeks and counting ��) it is in a very hard water area in SW. So fitting a water softener appears to be the way to go - looking at the Tapworks AD11 or a Monarch one.

    I have a few questions that I would love answered by people other than sale persons. I spoke to 3 companies and had quotes between £1000-1700 to in stall!! But I really want to know if our house and situation are suitable.

    1. Can you have a unit with an immersion heater for taps and electric shower?

    2. Will it impact on our heating system - backboiler supplying heat to 5 radiators?

    3. We are to have a water meter apparently as this is a new regulation for new account holders. What is the cost implications? I did read on one site that the cost of water was about 60p per regeneration clean (hope I got that term right...)

    Very grateful for any help or points in the right direction for further reading.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 16th Mar 17, 8:00 PM
    • 5,994 Posts
    • 18,886 Thanks
    Doc N
    £1000-£1700 to install? Crazy money, even it it includes the softener.

    I know the AD11 - around £450 to buy, and perhaps £100-£200 to install?

    1. Can you have a unit with an immersion heater for taps and electric shower? - Yes, no reason why not. We have.

    2. Will it impact on our heating system - backboiler supplying heat to 5 radiators? - Don't see why it should, but best check that with the boiler manufacturer. Some claim softened water causes corrosion problems.

    3. We are to have a water meter apparently as this is a new regulation for new account holders. What is the cost implications? I did read on one site that the cost of water was about 60p per regeneration clean (hope I got that term right...)

    - I doubt it would be as much as 60p but I have no figures for the AD11. It's not a factor I've ever worried about.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 16th Mar 17, 8:11 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    Thank you Doc N really set my mind at rest. We have someone booked to service the parkray so will ask them and maybe check with hunter parkray.

    Need to phone the water company can't find anywhere information that Wessex is water stressed. Tel operator was bordering on rude with her insistence that we had no choice and now after a glass of wine I can see no where on their website that it is compulsory or anything else on the net...will be sorting that out.
    • malc_b
    • By malc_b 17th Mar 17, 6:54 AM
    • 956 Posts
    • 368 Thanks
    malc_b
    You're right that water costs are often overlooked. For the machines I've looked at water is about 20%-30% of the total cost (i.e. salt is 70-80%) or about 23p/regen. It's better to go for a larger machine (single tank rather than 2) because each regen uses water and smaller machines regen more often. Why not ask tapworks how much water is used each regen and work it out?

    I'd also ask them for the regen water vs water pressure figures. Often the regen flush water is just timed, even on metered machines. The time is is based on a minimum pressure spec which most people will be above and so use more than the figures says. It could be worthwhile having a pressure reducer fitted to lower the regen water usage.

    I'm on wessex water too and my figures from last year (not checked if it has gone up) are £3.79 per 1000 l so 0.379p per litre. Note that includes the water and sewage cost since you pay both based on water usage unless you are on a septic tank.
    • minigirl12
    • By minigirl12 18th Mar 17, 10:45 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    minigirl12
    Luckily no septic tank. I guess we are going to have to have one, just didn't like someone speaking to me as though I was an idiot but when I asked where was the legislation not being able to tell me.

    It doesn't sound as if we are going to be high users, we have a water butt in the garden and an electric shower etc.

    Deffo looking to get online
    • Aphid
    • By Aphid 20th Mar 17, 2:05 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aphid
    I am on the verge of buying a water softener, actually a BWT WS355. Although I understand that the plumbing part is quite straightforward (for a plumber, anyway) I am aware that this and similar models require a 12V power supply. Having one fitted by an electrician sounds like it could be expensive(???), given the nature of kitchen units making access to electrics very awkward. Under my sink there are no power sockets - understandably - although there are power sockets on the walls above the base units, and a socket a few base units along, powering the dish washer. Has anyone come up with an ingenious way of running a power supply without the need for an electrician?
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 20th Mar 17, 2:09 PM
    • 3,142 Posts
    • 1,977 Thanks
    csgohan4
    perhaps not acquiring one with needing an electric supply, there are plenty on the market. I use a Monarch Plumbsoft Solo Ultra myself
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 20th Mar 17, 2:43 PM
    • 5,994 Posts
    • 18,886 Thanks
    Doc N
    I am on the verge of buying a water softener, actually a BWT WS355. Although I understand that the plumbing part is quite straightforward (for a plumber, anyway) I am aware that this and similar models require a 12V power supply. Having one fitted by an electrician sounds like it could be expensive(???), given the nature of kitchen units making access to electrics very awkward. Under my sink there are no power sockets - understandably - although there are power sockets on the walls above the base units, and a socket a few base units along, powering the dish washer. Has anyone come up with an ingenious way of running a power supply without the need for an electrician?
    Originally posted by Aphid
    Couldn't you just use an extension cable - most softeners just plug in, rather than being wired in.
    • Aphid
    • By Aphid 20th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aphid
    Something like an extension cable is what I have in mind. I have a spare socket on the wall nearby. Maybe I could run the cable through the worktop, down the back of the base unit, underneath the base units and back up into the unit that will house the softener. Plug on one end, socket on the other? That way cable hidden out of sight. The other option I am weighing up is similar with an extension positioned under the base unit emerging through a small hole and into the plug. The 12V socket would them be fed over the back of the base unit to plug into the extension underneath the same unit. My only concern there is the remote possibility of a water leak.
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