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  • FIRST POST
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 23rd Nov 11, 4:25 PM
    • 163Posts
    • 57Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    1&1 internet persuing me via debt collection agency Arvato
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 11, 4:25 PM
    1&1 internet persuing me via debt collection agency Arvato 23rd Nov 11 at 4:25 PM
    Not sure where to post this - hope this is the right place...

    About 18 months ago I bought a domain name and basic hosting package from 1&1 internet. It got to the end of the year and I had no intention of continuing with the service so let it expire.

    Around this time, I got an email from 1&1 telling me that they had tried to take monies for the next year but my debit card had been declined for around £70. I emailed them back within 30 minutes of the email saying that I didn't want the service anymore. Annoyingly, I got an auto response telling that the email address concerned didn't accept incoming email so I had to go on their website and send a message.

    A few days later they replied telling me I have to go online to cancel my account which I did immediately and received a cancellation email.

    That was the end of it….or so I thought.

    Recently I got an email from a company called Arvato who are instructed by 1&1 to pursue me for the “debt” (they had to email me as I have moved address). I explained to them that I cancelled the domain, supplied them with lots of emails to show I had acted in good faith and also a copy of the confirmation of cancellation.

    Today they have replied to say “Unfortunately, your cancellation was processed after the date that your invoice was raised. 1&1 Internet Ltd’s terms and conditions stipulate that cancellations must be processed at least fourteen days prior to the renewal date which has not been the case with your account” and asked me to pay.

    I’m not aware of any agreement that said I would allow repeat billing and I certainly didn’t sign a credit agreement. I did act in good faith as soon as I saw that I had been invoiced and I did take all steps to cancel the service as soon as I realised I was being billed for it.

    I think it’s grossly unfair that I am now being pursued for this given that it was never made clear to me and I would like to know who/where I can turn to next. Would this be a matter for the FOS? Should I let them issue proceedings and then show the court what I did? Are there any documents I can request to help my case?

    Any advice would be gratefully received. This has now become a matter of principal for me and I’m not prepared to have my credit record blighted by 1&1’s sneaky business practices! Have I got any rights?
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
Page 4
  • DuncanDisorderly
    I've emailed 1and1 and cc'd Afarto requesting that, with summer holidays around the corner, we should all check our diaries and come up with some dates for this possible Court Case which they keep promising me with. I've even offered to set up an Online Diary for all 3 parties. They didn't see the funny side and sent me a Final Warning Letter threatening me with a 'specialist doorstep collection agency' . Sorry - should have warned you fellow comrades-in-arms / campaigners before that these particular Germanics we are dealing with don't have a sense of humour. Note that this is all for £7.18 for 'Services not yet received from 1and1' – and it is not for £7.18 owed for 'Services received from 1and1 but not paid for'. They tried to automatically debit my credit card for £7.18 late last year for 2 years forward i.e 2013 and 2014 (yep - £3.59 per year incl VAT !!) and then 'spat the dummy' when they found my credit card had expired. “How very dare he. The audacity of someone keeping expired credit card details on our system. March that man to the Gulags”.
    • highestb1d
    • By highestb1d 28th Jun 13, 9:00 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    highestb1d
    I'm now being pursued for an automatic renewal payment of £36.

    My concern with just ignoring these shysters is the credit reference agencies.

    Has anyone had their credit history ruined by these money grabbers?
  • dbiddy
    AVOID, AVOID. Poor customer service/uncontactable. I've been bitten in the past too where was impossible to cancel a p1zz-poor website performance.
    GoDaddy are a bit better but still watch out for automatic renewals... Low promo entry costs, you then forget about it for a year and get smacked with a massive increase.
  • Boxxer
    Not just 1&1, also Webfusion... Avarto are at it again
    Xcalibre was sold to Webfusion.
    Xcalibre were a nice company to work with. -- we paid around £9 a month for a hosting, package for about 9 years. 3 of those years we paid, but weren't using the service.. it was 'just in case' we needed linux space..

    Anyway, to cut a long story short, I sent an email to cancel the contract about 18 months ago, heard nothing, kept paying automatically. .(by now the cost is 10.75 a month, I barely notice it to be hones)... then I notice it's still coming out 8 months ago, I send another mail saying I'm cancelling , attached the previous mail to it. -- I get a mail from them saying, you can't cancel by email, you have to do it in writing. -- I replied saying, email is 'writing' when it comes from my registered email address (the same address you have in your contract details for me).. -- 2 months later I deleted the credit card details and I thought that would be the end of the matter.

    4 months later, I get a call from Avarto chasing payment for 1 months Hosting fee.

    I replied, Actually I'm awaiting a refund from Webfusion for the overpayment from my initial cancellation notice (unacknowledged).

    They go away.
    They send a letter to my (new) home address, and an email to my account. I reply to the email copying the previous two emails cancelling my account and advising that webfusion need to refund my money.
    They go away again.

    I get a call from Peter from Avarto, he asks, I want to speak to you about the debt. -- I said, did you receive my email? He said no. I said what's your email address, he said send to collections@avarto.co.uk -- I said, will you confirm you get it? he said yes. - I send the email, I hear nothing.

    Today, I get another call from Avarto, they want to go through security, I say, you've called me, I've confirmed my name, have you got my emails?

    they can't discuss the matter unless I go through security. I repeat my question, they hang up.

    I'm not paying, I've overpaid, they need to take me to court. I'm ready for them.
  • Tony.1958
    Arvato and 1 and 1
    After getting caught up in the Arvato and 1 and 1 scam that is well documented on these forums I wrote to East Riding Trading Standards which is the primary authority covering Arvato.

    If anyone wants to see their reply I am happy to e-mail you the pdf - I cant seem to post it here. However in essence it says that they don't believe that there is a problem and people on forum sites are relatively anonymous and don't make official complaints.

    Could I ask that as many as possible e-mail Michelle Dunn (michelle.dunn@eastriding.gov.uk) outlining our experiences so that she can be aware of the volume of the problem.

    These bully boys are continuing to extract money from consumers and it has to stop.
    • sunflower_lass
    • By sunflower_lass 21st Nov 13, 11:29 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    sunflower_lass
    Tony.1958 , your comments have been most helpful!

    My tale of woe is that i cancelled my direct debit before the 'auto-renew' date, thinking that this would act as the termination of the contract. Now Arvato are chasing me for £36.

    1&1 insist that I needed to cancel by their systems, not just the direct debit. But after everything i have read here, I now have faith that this is complete rubbish, and have written angry letters to 1&1, Arvato and also reported them to the OFT and the email address that Tony gave at East Riding council. (michelle.dunn@eastriding.gov.uk)

    Now waiting to see what these scum bags reply with next...!
    • sunflower_lass
    • By sunflower_lass 27th Nov 13, 3:25 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    sunflower_lass
    I won!

    1&1 now say i don't owe them anything and even "apologise for the inconvenience!" This is after several threatening letters, emails and phone calls they and Arvato have made.

    Using the information supplied by people here, I just kept emailing them back denying I owed them any debt (I don't!)

    My emails were very to-the-point, defending my position, and notifying them that I have complained to East Riding Council as Tony suggested above.

    That seemed to do the trick so I URGE EVERYONE with a similar problem to also email East Riding Council (who are currently in the process of following up my complaint for me) The email address is in Tony's post above
  • marslander
    Hey
    Hey there guys ..
    I am in the same boat with 1and1 ..
    Today I got my second letter from arvato , saying that I owe money , but not saying how much.l.
    I had a domain name with 1and1 for a year , and now when the project I needed the domain for is no longer active , I just left it to expire..
    Done like that many times before , and usually when you dont want to renew something , you just dont pay it.. and so far never had problems with that..
    But 1and1 ( I have cancelled from thei control panel ) maybe a month after the domain expiration date , as requested , keep wanting money from me .. for I dont understand what reason..
    I really would like to fight them back and tell them to go and f** themselvs , but dont know how to write it politely and in law-terms ..
    Anyone willing to help ?
    It will be much appreciated !
  • Livwick
    Ah it's happened to me!!
    This month I have received emails and letters from avarto saying I owe money ! I thought it was a scam as I only owe money to nationwide for my credit card!

    It must be two years since I cancelled my 1&1 domain acc! And trust me they don't make it easy to cancel no help whatsoever !!

    They haven't stated how much and I am tempted not to get in touch but not sure if this means my credit rating would be affected?


    If anyone has any advice to what to do next would be appreciated!

    Do I ignore them?


    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 22nd Feb 14, 9:49 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    This month I have received emails and letters from avarto saying I owe money ! I thought it was a scam as I only owe money to nationwide for my credit card!

    It must be two years since I cancelled my 1&1 domain acc! And trust me they don't make it easy to cancel no help whatsoever !!

    They haven't stated how much and I am tempted not to get in touch but not sure if this means my credit rating would be affected?


    If anyone has any advice to what to do next would be appreciated!

    Do I ignore them?


    Originally posted by Livwick
    Well that's up to you. I'm the OP of this thread and they've gone away after I invited them to commence legal proceedings and theatening to seek advice from the Office of Fair Trading, which in the majority of cases they will have to do themselves via Small Claims due to the low amounts they are attempting to recover.

    They can, of course, do that. However, given the way that they have dealt with this debacle they would be unwise to in my opinion as there is more than a 50% chance they will lose.

    I haven't heard from them since December 2011.

    1&1 were unwise to deal with this matter in the way they did. I have many customers and have purchased over 300 domains in the past 18 months. I'll never buy another from them, and I'll never recommend anyone to use their services.

    Also note the point about East Riding Council above. They are just bullies IMO.
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 22nd Feb 14, 11:17 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    I have this morning done some more digging on this issue and I'm now 100% certain that Arvato and 1&1 don't have a leg to stand on. Quite simply, they are hoodwinking people.

    I have therefore written a page, which includes relevent regulations, which show that 1&1 have acted is bad faith. If you scroll to the bottom you can see a summary which sents out the regulations clearly.

    http://www.themoonface.co.uk/1&1-arvato/1and1-arvato-collections.php
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
  • DAV
    Customer service telling the truth?
    Have had 1&1 pursuing me for the next two years' fees recently. Spoke to customer service who said it renews automatically - but thankfully card I'd used last time has since expired so they couldn't auto-take money.

    She said that I couldn't negotiate an amount to pay them as they had already paid (the relevant company for the actual hosting?) for two years for my .co.uk (and I think I year for .uk). I said that I would verify whether this was the case before getting back to them.

    Can anyone help here? Is this just another 1&1 lie?

    (Also note that the 'cancel auto-renew' link from the email sent me a few months ago clearly states that cancel auto-renew can't be done for UK web addresses - which I'd imagine is the majority of what 1&1 deal in. Also there is a separate link to cancel the domain, but again the text at the top clearly says "cancelling all domains within a hosting package does NOT cancel the hosting plan itself. The hosting plan will remain active and will continue being billed until cancelled." Could they make it more difficult to cancel while still pretending they've fulfilled all their requirements?)
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 3rd Mar 14, 11:16 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    Have had 1&1 pursuing me for the next two years' fees recently. Spoke to customer service who said it renews automatically - but thankfully card I'd used last time has since expired so they couldn't auto-take money.

    She said that I couldn't negotiate an amount to pay them as they had already paid (the relevant company for the actual hosting?) for two years for my .co.uk (and I think I year for .uk). I said that I would verify whether this was the case before getting back to them.

    Can anyone help here? Is this just another 1&1 lie?

    (Also note that the 'cancel auto-renew' link from the email sent me a few months ago clearly states that cancel auto-renew can't be done for UK web addresses - which I'd imagine is the majority of what 1&1 deal in. Also there is a separate link to cancel the domain, but again the text at the top clearly says "cancelling all domains within a hosting package does NOT cancel the hosting plan itself. The hosting plan will remain active and will continue being billed until cancelled." Could they make it more difficult to cancel while still pretending they've fulfilled all their requirements?)
    Originally posted by DAV
    Nominets own T&C's say domains will lapse automatically if not renewed.

    As for the company paying someone to host the sites, that's rubbish. They host them.

    It's a con in my opinion. If you haven't paid, they would be stupid to continue to supply the service. I can't think of any companies that deal that way.
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
  • u06jgg
    Big thanks to several posters on this thread.

    I was sent a missed payment/broken bank card email some months ago for an automatic renewal. Emailed 1&1 to inform I did not want the service and subsequently had to cancel in writing. They continued to send me debt collection emails, then Arvato got in on it by email and paper mail, which I had been ignoring up until now.

    If I had used the sevice and not paid, fine, I owe them. But no way I'm paying for a service they hadn't even supplied yet and after payment was declined.

    I cherry picked some of my favourite legal defences from this thread and pinged 1&1 and Arvato a mail. I see that nobody here has been taken to court so I figured they were chancers. Two days later my 'debt' was cancelled.

    Feel free to copy and paste.


    Dear ---------, (Customer ID: ------------)

    Thank you for contacting us.

    We have received an escalated case from our Billing Department. Our apologies for any confusion caused here. Your account was successfully closed within our system as of Dec 8, 2013, but had renewed prior to that on Oct 21, 2013, causing the latest invoice to automatically and correctly generate. All cancellations would need to be actioned well prior to the renewal date to ensure that nothing further were to generate. Unfortunately, this was not the case here. Charges generated prior to cancellation would be the responsibility of the account holder.

    As a one time courtesy, we are going to release the account from collections and clear the balance. Thank you.

    If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

    --
    Best Regards,
    Caitlin H.
    Solutions Manager
    1&1 Internet Limited

    Registered at Cardiff, Company number 3953678 - VAT No GB 752539027
    Aquasulis House, 10-14 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 3SA, United Kingdom

    Dear Collections Team,

    Regarding your attempted extortion on behalf of 1&1:
    Nominet's guidelines for lapsing a domain name state domain names that have not been renewed will lapse naturally
    Under the Sales of Goods Act Distance Selling Regulations I am not required to supply evidence that I sent a cancellation notice
    1&1 Internet failed to make relevant terms of the Continuous Payment Agreement were set out clearly and in plain, intelligible language, and brought prominently to my attention, as they were only contained in 'terms and conditions' and which is against Office of Fair Trading regulations Principles for use of Continuous Payment Authority

    This is my final correspondence on this matter.

    If you contact me again I shall report you to the OFT along with 1&1.

    Regards,

    ---------.

    On 3 Feb 2014, at 20:57, collections*arvato.co.uk wrote:

    Dear ------ -------,

    We have attempted to contact you prior to this email to discuss a matter of mutual importance.

    Could you please call us on 0870 1258809 quoting your reference number ------- or alternatively, reply to this email acknowledging its receipt and provide us with a contact number so we may speak with you directly.

    Yours faithfully,

    The Collections Team
    ----------------------------------------
    arvato limited
    PO Box 321
    Willerby
    Hull
    HU10 6WF


    collections*arvato.co.uk
    Tel: 0870 1258809

    Please consider the environment before printing this email
    This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system.

    This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. Registered Company Details: Name: arvato Limited. Number and Place: 03923307 (England & Wales). Address: One Fleet Place, London, EC4M 7WS.
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 21st Mar 14, 8:31 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    Big thanks to several posters on this thread.

    I was sent a missed payment/broken bank card email some months ago for an automatic renewal. Emailed 1&1 to inform I did not want the service and subsequently had to cancel in writing. They continued to send me debt collection emails, then Arvato got in on it by email and paper mail, which I had been ignoring up until now.

    If I had used the sevice and not paid, fine, I owe them. But no way I'm paying for a service they hadn't even supplied yet and after payment was declined.

    I cherry picked some of my favourite legal defences from this thread and pinged 1&1 and Arvato a mail. I see that nobody here has been taken to court so I figured they were chancers. Two days later my 'debt' was cancelled.

    Feel free to copy and paste.


    Dear ---------, (Customer ID: ------------)

    Thank you for contacting us.

    We have received an escalated case from our Billing Department. Our apologies for any confusion caused here. Your account was successfully closed within our system as of Dec 8, 2013, but had renewed prior to that on Oct 21, 2013, causing the latest invoice to automatically and correctly generate. All cancellations would need to be actioned well prior to the renewal date to ensure that nothing further were to generate. Unfortunately, this was not the case here. Charges generated prior to cancellation would be the responsibility of the account holder.

    As a one time courtesy, we are going to release the account from collections and clear the balance. Thank you.

    If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

    --
    Best Regards,
    Caitlin H.
    Solutions Manager
    1&1 Internet Limited

    Registered at Cardiff, Company number 3953678 - VAT No GB 752539027
    Aquasulis House, 10-14 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 3SA, United Kingdom

    Dear Collections Team,

    Regarding your attempted extortion on behalf of 1&1:
    Nominet's guidelines for lapsing a domain name state domain names that have not been renewed will lapse naturally
    Under the Sales of Goods Act Distance Selling Regulations I am not required to supply evidence that I sent a cancellation notice
    1&1 Internet failed to make relevant terms of the Continuous Payment Agreement were set out clearly and in plain, intelligible language, and brought prominently to my attention, as they were only contained in 'terms and conditions' and which is against Office of Fair Trading regulations Principles for use of Continuous Payment Authority

    This is my final correspondence on this matter.

    If you contact me again I shall report you to the OFT along with 1&1.

    Regards,

    ---------.

    On 3 Feb 2014, at 20:57, collections*arvato.co.uk wrote:

    Dear ------ -------,

    We have attempted to contact you prior to this email to discuss a matter of mutual importance.

    Could you please call us on 0870 1258809 quoting your reference number ------- or alternatively, reply to this email acknowledging its receipt and provide us with a contact number so we may speak with you directly.

    Yours faithfully,

    The Collections Team
    ----------------------------------------
    arvato limited
    PO Box 321
    Willerby
    Hull
    HU10 6WF


    collections*arvato.co.uk
    Tel: 0870 1258809

    Please consider the environment before printing this email
    This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system.

    This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. Registered Company Details: Name: arvato Limited. Number and Place: 03923307 (England & Wales). Address: One Fleet Place, London, EC4M 7WS.
    Originally posted by u06jgg
    They're a bunch of chancers. I'm sure some people pay up as a result of their bullying, but legally I don't think they have a leg to stand on and they know it!
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
  • Mjolnir7
    I've received the "matter of mutual" email from Arvato a number of times and so far I have just replied back with a copy and paste response that I copied from these forums, today however I have received this new email:

    "
    Thank you for your email.


    As stated in 1&1’s Terms & Conditions cancelling a 1&1 Internet account can only be done in 2 ways:
    1. Via control panel on your 1&1 account OR
    2. Writing a letter of cancelation to 1&1 enclosing proof of ID

    Once either of these cancelation methods are completed 1&1 will always send a Confirmation of Cancellation email.

    It is clearly stated in 1&1's Terms & Conditions that to avoid incurring further charges on an account customer must cancel 14 days before an invoice is raised.

    You have to agree to 1&1's T&C's before you take out the original agreement.


    To arrange payment please contact us on 0870 1258809.

    Regards"


    I have replied back using u06jgg's response above and am awaiting a response from them but I'm intrigued by Arvato's insistence that I ring them to make payment but have never said how much the payment amount would be.



    I didn't like their service when it was in used so was glad for it to expire, in the end all I ended up doing was using the domain name to point to a tumblr account.


    I would like to get the domain name back to use elsewhere but I am prepared to sacrifice it just to get away from 1and1 an Arvato.
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 28th Mar 14, 11:29 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    Standard thing. I had all of it. Exactly the same thing. Tell them you did write and cancel it - they have to prove you didn't.

    My summary explains why but basically under the Sales of Goods Act you are not required to supply evidence that you wrote and cancelled.

    Personally I'd just ignore them. They'll go away in the end
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
  • micsten
    I won!

    1&1 now say i don't owe them anything and even "apologise for the inconvenience!" This is after several threatening letters, emails and phone calls they and Arvato have made.

    Using the information supplied by people here, I just kept emailing them back denying I owed them any debt (I don't!)

    My emails were very to-the-point, defending my position, and notifying them that I have complained to East Riding Council as Tony suggested above.

    That seemed to do the trick so I URGE EVERYONE with a similar problem to also email East Riding Council (who are currently in the process of following up my complaint for me) The email address is in Tony's post above
    Originally posted by sunflower_lass
    Hi, Could you please provide the 1&1 email address you used to send your emails to in response to their demands?

    I have sent an email of complaint to the East Riding Council address and now want to reply to both Arvato and 1&1 stating the same as you did to see if they will drop this.

    They are demanding £79 from me for exactly the same thing - Auto renewals that I did not knowingly sign up for.

    I am worried this will effect my credit rating. Very annoying indeed, such a terrible way to treat their customers.
  • micsten
    Contacted Slough Trading Standards - Told Have A Duty To Pay
    I just contacted Trading Standards and was told in no uncertain terms that I have to pay up as I was duty bound to read the terms and conditions before signing up for their services.

    They were pretty rude on the phone actually - Very sharp in tone as if I was an idiot for not having read the T&Cs throughoughly enough.

    I was also told it was highly likely that this will adversly effect my credit rating. So I'm just going to pay the £79 and put it down to experience to never use 1&1 again. I will certainly not be recommending their services to anyone I know.
  • 1and1Internet
    Hello everyone! We've just been granted permission to post and are happy to be here and able to assist with any issues that forum members have experienced with their service or products at 1&1.

    Before anything else, I wanted to give my sincerest apologies to everyone in this thread who has had a negative experience. Your experiences are not what we want any customer to deal with. Thank you for sharing them and helping us become more aware of the areas we have to improve in. I wish that we'd learned of this forum sooner so we could have helped with the earlier posts.

    If there's anything you need assistance with or any questions that I can answer, please let me know. As this is a company account, we do not have the ability to send private messages, but I can be directly contacted at annika@1and1.com, and my colleague Brittany, who shares this account, can be contacted through brittay@1and1.com. Again, we're very sorry for any negative experiences and are here to help solve whatever we can. Please let us know how we can help you.

    Thank you,

    Annika, for 1&1 Internet
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of 1&1internet. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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