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  • FIRST POST
    • jacobsdaduk
    • By jacobsdaduk 23rd Nov 11, 4:25 PM
    • 163Posts
    • 57Thanks
    jacobsdaduk
    1&1 internet persuing me via debt collection agency Arvato
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 11, 4:25 PM
    1&1 internet persuing me via debt collection agency Arvato 23rd Nov 11 at 4:25 PM
    Not sure where to post this - hope this is the right place...

    About 18 months ago I bought a domain name and basic hosting package from 1&1 internet. It got to the end of the year and I had no intention of continuing with the service so let it expire.

    Around this time, I got an email from 1&1 telling me that they had tried to take monies for the next year but my debit card had been declined for around £70. I emailed them back within 30 minutes of the email saying that I didn't want the service anymore. Annoyingly, I got an auto response telling that the email address concerned didn't accept incoming email so I had to go on their website and send a message.

    A few days later they replied telling me I have to go online to cancel my account which I did immediately and received a cancellation email.

    That was the end of it….or so I thought.

    Recently I got an email from a company called Arvato who are instructed by 1&1 to pursue me for the “debt” (they had to email me as I have moved address). I explained to them that I cancelled the domain, supplied them with lots of emails to show I had acted in good faith and also a copy of the confirmation of cancellation.

    Today they have replied to say “Unfortunately, your cancellation was processed after the date that your invoice was raised. 1&1 Internet Ltd’s terms and conditions stipulate that cancellations must be processed at least fourteen days prior to the renewal date which has not been the case with your account” and asked me to pay.

    I’m not aware of any agreement that said I would allow repeat billing and I certainly didn’t sign a credit agreement. I did act in good faith as soon as I saw that I had been invoiced and I did take all steps to cancel the service as soon as I realised I was being billed for it.

    I think it’s grossly unfair that I am now being pursued for this given that it was never made clear to me and I would like to know who/where I can turn to next. Would this be a matter for the FOS? Should I let them issue proceedings and then show the court what I did? Are there any documents I can request to help my case?

    Any advice would be gratefully received. This has now become a matter of principal for me and I’m not prepared to have my credit record blighted by 1&1’s sneaky business practices! Have I got any rights?
    Happy with my advice? The please use the 'thanks' button vvvvvvvvvvvvv
Page 3
    • S0litaire
    • By S0litaire 8th Jan 13, 1:42 PM
    • 3,334 Posts
    • 2,107 Thanks
    S0litaire
    I just received an email from them but it didn't mention 1&1 but I have used them but did search for arvato and found this thread and sent them the message someone previously posted...
    Originally posted by Hilti28
    Think I got the same email as you this morning.

    I just replied to the effect of :
    "I'm sorry I do not recognise your company or have I ever had any dealings with yourself.

    What is this matter of mutual importance of which you speak of?

    I will not give you any personal information until you provide me with more information."

    Wait to see what their reply is...
    Last edited by S0litaire; 08-01-2013 at 1:43 PM. Reason: typo's
    Laters

    Sol

    "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  • Beatboy
    I too am in the same situation as everyone else re: 1&1 and Arvato. Despite me forwarding an email to Arvato confirming that my account was cancelled and no further action was required, they still want me to pay them £58.60, quoting 1&1's terms and conditions mentioned previously.

    What I want to know is " has anyone actually paid up or been taken to court for non payment"?

    I have no intention of paying for a service I've cancelled!!!
  • NuclearPhotoShot
    Well I haven't heard from Arvatto since I last spoke to them at the end of July 2012. I've had no e-mails from them, nor have I had any letters (Mind you if they were sending me them, it would be to a very old address so I wouldn't be receiving them anyway!). Nor any phone calls. Fortunate for them, I take great pleasure in winding up DCA's on the phone

    It has since come to light that I have a nasty medical condition which is going to have surgery to put right. As a result I have been forced to claim State Benefit (Not happy about that at all). So they can have £1 a month in token payments which I will send as a cheque every month if they pursue this. Then I'll sleep easy at night knowing it'll cost them a few pence to cash every single cheque and someone will have to go to the inconvenience of going to the bank with it, incurring further costs. Oh and I'll "forget" to put a stamp on the envelope each time and wonder if they get the message.

    Well the first part of that was true r.e. medical. But they're on a hiding to nothing if they think they're going to get any form of payment out of me for a cancelled account. They seem to have stopped pursuing the matter, so I consider they've closed it. But I don't exactly plan on phoning them to find out.

    I personally look forward to the day they send a court summons for £60 on a cancelled account back in 2010 If they even manage to find my correct address!
  • jonboyp
    Sorry to bring up a dead thread, but same position here. Checking back through my emails I've got the "your package is due to be renewed on 25th January 2013" on January 26th, i.e. the day after!

    If they think that minus one days is sufficient notice for a reminder they can kiss section 1 paragraph (h) of the Unfair Terms 1999 Schedule 2.

    Paragraph (d) also suggests that to insist on a full years payment when I've only technically had one months service (my account was cancelled manually by me in Feb when they started sending me threatening emails) is also unfair.

    Anyone on this thread had any further dealings with their debt recovery bods?
  • lordsalisbury
    Hi all, just a very quick update - I posted back in August last year with the same story as everyone else, and I'm pleased to say that this Arvato lot seem to have given up pursuing me - I've had no further emails from them, and no forwarded mail (although, I'm not sure anyone bothers to forward snail mail anymore). So it does seem that if you ignore them, they'll go away.
  • Esarbe
    Likewise, nothing since the 'pay up in 7 days or else' letter at the beginning of May last year.
  • rousler62
    I made a formal complaint to Slough BC Trading Standards (1 and 1 are based in Slough)following a call from Arvato Bertelsmann on Christmas Eve and 1 and 1 Internet have caved in completely, writing to Trading standards to say that my account has been 'wiped clean' and that all instructions to Arvato Bertelsmann have been cancelled. Perhaps others should try this.
  • Tony.1958
    Slough Trading Standards
    rousler62 is spot on. I had the same rubbish from 1 and 1 and Arvato and you are wasting your time with both.

    Lets look first at the legal position. The CPA (continuous payment authority) that 1 and 1 pretend to think they have would be virtually impossible to enforce. The Office of Fair Trading have strict guidelines in relation to CPAs, specifically that the consumer MUST be sent clear information on the CPA at the commencement of the contract. As 1 and 1 don't actually send a contract, nor is the CPA referred to in the welcome email this would not stand up in court. The "click through" is insufficient. So first off, no ones going to court. If they ever did then 1 and 1 would fall foul of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

    1 and 1s tactics, as we can all see here, are simply to ignore you. They use a set of stock e-mail phrases that they just bounce out to you hoping that you are stupid enough to respond to the threats from Arvato and pay up - I guess a lot of people do. I wrote to Robert Hoffman, the Chief Executive Officer at the registered office in Slough, three times, and I had no reply. I think I would have had more luck getting a reply from Margaret Thatcher. From the point of view of customer service this stinks.

    As for Arvato they are breaching the OFT guidelines in relation to the collection of consumer debt regulations 2003, modified 2012. Specifically section 3.3 sub section (l) prohibits the use of non geographic premium rate numbers. Arvato use an 0870 number at 10p a minute and more from mobiles. They are also in breach of section 3.7 sub section (o) inasmuch as disputed debts must be put on hold whilst the matter is investigated unless CLEAR evidence to the contrary can be provided - which it cant. Hull trading standards is the primary authority for Arvato and I have written to them asking that they get Arvato to stop this nonsense.

    The guy to contact at Slough Trading standards is Dean Cooke. He sorted my case out in days and I had a credit note and very badly worded letter from a guy at 1 and 1 called Zachery Lambert saying how sorry they were and it was all cancelled now.

    Anyone interested in seeing my correspondence mail me at tony.cox1958@btinternet.com and I can send you copies. Trading Standards and or the OFT should sort these pair of scum bags out.

    Tony
  • CazRaz
    Reassurance Please
    Hi, I am also in a similar position, I bought a 1and1 website over a year ago, found after a couple of weeks that I didn't actually want it and never logged back on to the website again and spammed the enormous amount of crappy emails I got from them on a daily basis.

    I wont bore you with my story but basically I have never seen any emails asking for payment as they went in my spam folder.

    I cant remember how I even opened the account but I assumed I had bought a years service and that was it, I don't know if I ticked a terms and conditions box??

    I called 1and1 yesterday and spoke to what I thought was a "robot" as there was a long delay between me asking a question and them answering. I was basically told that I had to put my complaint in writing to their complaints department and given their email address as she would not give me a telephone number to call. I did this immediately and have received an email back this morning stating that 1and1 can no longer deal with my complaint as it has been passed to Arvato and they are no longer "allowed" to access invoices in dispute.

    Yesterday I also received a call from Arvato and I explained to her that I was disputing the invoice etc. she was really nasty and told me that I should pay up and then dispute it as it would "help" me. Sadly I am not that stupid.

    I'm now worrying that I don't really have a leg to stand on if it is in their "small print" but I cant remember ever seeing anything that stated I would be billed another years service.

    I'm not "well off" and cannot afford a solicitor for advice, should I just be brave and continue to ignore their communications until I receive a claim form??

    Any reassurance would be gratefully received.
  • DuncanDisorderly
    Do not despair CasRaz.
    I am in contact with one of the main Consumer Magazines Legal Teams over the same issue with 1and1/Afarto and they instruct me to advise that I will be reporting them to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards. I'm enjoying the witty banter with 1and1 so much that I would much prefer to postpone the inevitable for as long as possible though. They just keeping digging holes for themselves. The amount of work they make for themselves is unbelievable. Anyway - watch this space.
  • CazRaz
    Thanks DuncanDisorderly, I have tried to explain my position to 1and1 as much as possible in order to appeal to their better nature but have received an email this morning basically stating that as they tried all they could to take payment and advise me of the same then there is nothing further they can do, I don't know whether to pay up or see if I end up with a Claim form (plus more fees) on my door and that is if they send it to me of course!! I think my terror is having a CCJ for something I honestly never saw and didn't want and haven't used! Thanks for your reply though
    • mwbrown
    • By mwbrown 17th Apr 13, 7:57 AM
    • 142 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    mwbrown
    Ive had this a couple of times with 1&1 (but never received the email advising that the domain was due for renewal as they are supposed to send to advise!). They were passed to Arvato (who are (I believe) are the inhouse debt collectors for 1&1.

    Emailed Arvato to dispute the account and then emailed 1&1 requesting that they forward the email they "supposedly sent" to my email address which somehow was never delivered!!!! After much back and forwards I got both the amounts cancelled by 1&1.

    I never did receive any confirmation from them that they had sent the emails about the renewal of the domains - its one company I wouldn't now consider using for Domain names as I feel that they aren't a very good company to purchase domain names from (if there system cant send a simple reminder that the domain name is due for renewal in time for you to cancel the domain.

    One of the domains my wife setup and she never received any confirmation of the renewal until Arvato got involved.

    Mike
  • CazRaz
    I received this reply from 1and1 (John Keefer)

    "Unfortunately, non-payment is not a form of cancellation. The service will perpetually renew unless proactively cancelled. More than an industry standard, this is a very important convenience for our existing and prospective customers. Customers cannot be forced to contact us every time they need a service renewal. This would cause unwanted website downtime, loss of resources, and an assortment of other issues for a large majority of our customers!"

    The only reason they didn't get payment from me is because my account was closed otherwise they would have taken it and I would be chasing a refund.

    I'm starting to feel rather sick in the stomach every time my phone goes and its Arvato, or I get emails from 1and1 stating I don't have a leg to stand on.

    I am no where near as knowledgeable in the areas of law as some of the people who are posting replies on here and feel as though I should give up trying to be genuine and get this cancelled by paying up.
  • CazRaz
    Sorry should have pointed out that his reply was to my question of why I never received a renewal notice!
  • DuncanDisorderly
    Yep, Mr J Keefer is a busy boy chasing us for small sums of money (in my case £7.18 incl VAT) for futures services promised to us from 1and1 (and not services I have already received but have refused to pay for). I've already offered to take him for a beer at The Phrenoligist and Firkin in Slough to cheer him up. He seemed to have had a Sense of Humour bypass at that point and refused to deal with any more of my emails pertaining to this issue.
    The Legal Representative from the particular Consumer Magazine which I subscribe to, advise me that these Collection Agencies rarely act, so I would not loose too much sleep CasRaz.
    Tony (in this forum) has given good advice. Just go to Dean Cooke at Slough Trading Standard - simples - he'll put the fear of God into em. These individuals are simply trying bullying tactics.
  • Beatboy
    1&1 Arvato
    Hi just an update from my previous post. I have not heard from Arvato regarding the £58 amount. I did, however receive a letter from 1&1 stating that I owe them around £7 in connection with my account ( which has been cancelled) but it did not say what for. They said if I didn't pay it would be handed to a debt collection agency with an additional fee added.
    Lo and behold, today I have had a letter from Arvato for a sum of around £12. I don't even know what this is for and they have not mentioned the previous amount "owing"

    I'm going to stick to my plan of ignoring them, and, if they want to take me to court so be it!
    • hazelwoods
    • By hazelwoods 24th Apr 13, 3:00 PM
    • 269 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    hazelwoods
    Just found this thread.
    I had a similar difficulty with 1&1 I didn't want to renew at the new cost and they couldn't take money from an expired card.
    I contacted them and said I wanted to cancel. Then the letters started,
    I've just spoken to cancellations and it's done. Took 3 months and several ignored emails and letters, but now to see what they do
  • monteh
    Hi everyone.

    I am also in the same position here. I had a beginners package for 3 years. I actually forgot to cancel it last year, so I ended up paying for another year. I changed my credit card recently, so when 1and1 sent a renewal email, followed by further emails saying the credit card had expired - I ignored them! At this point, my website got taken down (great, I didn't want it any more anyway), and I thought that would be the end of it.

    Then Arvato came along. So far I have received 3 emails from them asking for payment. My payment was for £35. But apparently its now over £75. I no longer live at the address registered on the account. But I know they have sent a letter there trying to contact me. They have also called me, but I was not home at the time (however wife has blown my cover by acknowledging that I can be contacted at this number.. Dam it!)

    I plan to ignore them, and see if they can find my actual home address. My wife seems to think they can, especially since they have my area code.

    I feel really let down by them. I was happy with the service they provided, I even got my brother to sign up with his new start-up company only 3 months ago. I am a IT professional and whenever someone asks me about website hosting, I have always recommended them. Now I would be ashamed to recommend them to anybody.

    How can they bill me for a service I no longer want to use? I contacted the trading standards by telephone, and the guy said that, due to their terms and conditions, it is law abiding and that I should pay.

    The only thing I am really concerned about is a meat head bailiff knocking on my door, asking for an inflated amount. what are the chances? From what I gather nobody here has gone the full length of court proceedings.
  • DuncanDisorderly
    Monteh - I would not worry too much. My lawyer insists that these collection companies rarely act. They are chasing me for £7 - same circumstances as yourself. I'm having £7 worth of fun just winding them up. I'll be contacting Slough Trading Standards office and Ofcom soon but at the minute I am so much enjoying getting their stooopid pathetic little emails. I also think exposing these people to the glossy PC / Computer Magazines may cause them to finally switch on at some point. The Management of both companies is German I believe.
    Duncan
  • Beatboy
    I have just received another letter from Arvato stating FORMAL NOTIFICATION OF ACTION. Asking me to pay up within 7 days etc.....

    Good luck with that then! I won't be paying.
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