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Sunflow Electric Heating Systems
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# 1
Cokecolmer
Old 06-11-2011, 7:19 PM
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Cool Sunflow Electric Heating Systems

I am considering asking the UK agent to come round and cost out a new replacement system.This system is based on a German design Electrical radiator.Clay filled and specified as very efficient.
Has anyone any positive feedback from this type of heating system at all?

Coke
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# 2
Cardew
Old 06-11-2011, 8:15 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

Well the good news first - they are very efficient. In fact they are 100% efficient. However so is every other electrical heater from a 10 fan heater to my granny's old 1/2/3 bar fire.

It is absolutely certain that they will give out EXACTLY the same amount of heat, for the same running cost, as any other electrical heater. That holds true if they are filled with clay, water, oil, or platinum or custard!

If you go to the LPG & Heating forum(in Utilities) you will find several threads on similar electric radiators 'systems' with all manner of extravagent claims.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=2148437

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=2124053

There was another radiator system filled with clay - called Elke and also made in Germany - and it would not surprise me at all if these were the same item re-branded.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...highlight=clay

That also got short shrift on these forums.

There is no point in re-hashing the same points made in the other threads.

I note the brochure doesn't give a price list - one might ask why not? If they need a surveyor, it is a fair bet they will be expensive - very expensive!

P.S.
Almost every thread on these type of heaters is by a first time poster!
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# 3
Mr Man Full of Love
Old 06-11-2011, 8:19 PM
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You've come to the wrong place for positive thoughts on electrical heating. You will get plenty of ill-informed hearsay, lies and stuff copied & pasted from google though.

EDIT. I see it's appeared already as I was typing.
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# 4
jalexa
Old 06-11-2011, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Man Full of Love View Post
You've come to the wrong place for positive thoughts on electrical heating. You will get plenty of ill-informed hearsay, lies and stuff copied & pasted from google though.

EDIT. I see it's appeared already as I was typing.
What's appeared doesn't seem to me to be "ill-informed hearsay, lies and stuff copied & pasted from google", TBH quite the reverse.

Now if the advice had been "Britain has a super-insulated housing stock, like Germany for example, ideal for highly controlled electric heating at daytime rates", then that would be "ill-informed, lies".

But that wasn't the advice posted.


Typical prices for "similar" products can be found in a price-list here...

http://www.sukaelectroheating.co.uk/

Given a choice between a supplier brave enough to post prices and a "double glazing" type quotation, I know what I'd choose.

And a note to the OP. Forum rules ask that I be "nice to newbies", so I will keep an open mind. In return I hope you will post some prices.

Last edited by jalexa; 06-11-2011 at 9:00 PM.
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# 5
Mr Man Full of Love
Old 06-11-2011, 8:55 PM
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And on it goes.............
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# 6
rogerblack
Old 06-11-2011, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardew View Post
Welcome to the forum.

Well the good news first - they are very efficient. In fact they are 100% efficient. However so is every other electrical heater from a 10 fan heater to my granny's old 1/2/3 bar fire.
It's gotten to the point with rising fuel prices, and falling goods prices that heat-pumps have gotten to very short payoff times. Certainly better than the expensive heater of the week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170677687447 - for example. (not dealt with this seller)
Yes, it's 800 quid up-front.
But it will more than halve your heating bills, if you're heating on non-cheap-rate electricity.

(There are heatpumps costing around half this, that will work acceptably for those in the south)
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# 7
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 06-11-2011, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokecolmer View Post
I am considering asking the UK agent to come round and cost out a new replacement system.This system is based on a German design Electrical radiator.Clay filled and specified as very efficient.
Has anyone any positive feedback from this type of heating system at all?

Coke
Again welcome to the forum Cokecolmer, there are many threads that cover your subject, you could start here with - this one

Their claim of :

No massive upheaval to get it installed No boilers or pipework No floorboards up - No holes in the wall There is NO servicing No replacement parts No dust No workmen to rely on - (ever waited for someone to turn up?) No loss of energy up the flue or chimney No long waiting periods for heat No rewiring No more clanging of pipes No more air locks, No tanks No water, No oil and No gas No more danger of leakage - EVER Simply plug your heater in - Job done!

Is true .. .. but its also true of a 10 convector from ALDI, but then you can .. .. buy Spam from ALDI too. ALDI of course publish their prices up front and don't structure their sales pitch behind closed doors away from scrutiny

Why do you feel this system is efficient Cokecolmer ?, there are really well informed people in the forum that would be helpful and debate this with you to help your understanding of the manufacturers claims in general and the issue [s] of efficiency in particular.

Last edited by Richie-from-the-Boro; 06-11-2011 at 10:07 PM. Reason: missed a letter ' u '
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# 8
Richie-from-the-Boro
Old 07-11-2011, 3:45 PM
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The patterns of consumption and product knowledge on the part of the buyer, suggest that the buyers of these products would largely be made up from what I loosely describe as the elderly and vulnerable. Its my assumption that the elderly and vulnerable [ of any age ] would never agree that they are [ see themselves as ] being taken advantage of ~ but ~ their awareness of deception and their capacity to cope with consumer abuse and bad business practices is universally recognised as a social evil in this or any country.

The selling techniques of all those selling 'snake oil' heating systems all have one thing in common, they do it behind your own closed front door, away from scrutiny, a technique from start to finish takes 40 minutes or so and the vulnerable purchaser is :

- three thousand quid lighter
- has bought 'pretty looking' but ineffective heating
- has signed a legal document out of the sight of others
- has been sold it on the basis of lies and exaggerations
- bought into the spiel with a lack of awareness about consumer rights
- has been misled and subjected to high pressure sales techniques
- does not understand cancellation rights and cooling off periods
- the goods sold to consumers being unsuitable for their needs or do not meet their requirements
- of the 3.4 billion sold every year in the UK apart from the usual double glazing, a third of that total is mobility products
- such as stair-lifts wheelchairs power-scooters etc

Every decent minded person and group in the UK including Government, the OFT and CAB have published guidance on how to avoid this slithering sales practice. I am genuinely concerned that seemingly all, yes all purveyors of these low energy alchemy products insist on individual one to one interviews in the home of the elderly or vulnerable.

Here is a direct quote [ including their use of the CAPS lock ] from the company mentioned above """we cannot stress enough that you take advantage of our FREE, NO OBLIGATION technical survey"""

Yes, of course you do, how kind of you, you give me a free 0800 number and send a man hundreds of miles through the weather at your expense out of the goodness of you heart because I am vulnerable and elderly / and / or disabled or ill, what a sweet socially caring company you are .. ..
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# 9
jalexa
Old 08-11-2011, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokecolmer View Post
I am considering asking the UK agent to come round and cost out a new replacement system.
Got a date yet? As a "newbie" don't forget that posting for advice is a two-way process and we're all eager to find out the price. If only because it helps to give sound advice to others.
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# 10
grahamc2003
Old 08-11-2011, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexa View Post
Got a date yet? As a "newbie" don't forget that posting for advice is a two-way process and we're all eager to find out the price. If only because it helps to give sound advice to others.
I wouldn't be surprised if he has a sunflow salesman at his house every day of the year!
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# 11
Cardew
Old 08-11-2011, 10:04 AM
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Default Sunflow

Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamc2003 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if he has a sunflow salesman at his house every day of the year!
The good thing about these type of threads is that any(genuine) prospective owner will arrive here with a GOOGLE if they care to do any research.
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# 12
Mr Man Full of Love
Old 08-11-2011, 10:37 AM
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I'm no longer interested in the same pointless waffle being re-hashed. But does anyone else get the feeling the OP might just be a troll or perhaps already registered on the forum under another name who finds the incoherent ranting this subject brings amusing and just layed a trap?
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# 13
wearing mittens
Old 08-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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Default At last a price

The firm would not give us a ball park price and I received a curt email telling me that if I was looking for a cheap heater (I wasn't) then 'they were probably not the firm for us'! I went no further of course. Out of the blue we received call from them offering to come and give a quote with no obligation. I had wanted to save them this job by asking for a price. However, since they offered... A very pleasant man came and gave us all the info and demonstrated his product. Then 'price?' we queried. After much note taking he said 1442!! For one radiator!! I have calculated we could run our oil-filled one 24 hours a day at 1.5kw for 90 days for five years before we would have paid of the cost of the one on offer.
No wonder they wouldn't give a price.
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# 14
no1fran
Old 30-03-2012, 9:53 AM
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Default thank you

I'm really grateful to you guys for all these postings. I feel like one 'of the almost conned' crowd. Saw an advert for these heaters in my local council's quarterly mag and thought they seemed a good idea. Looked at their website and was considering contacting them BUT decided to google reviews first. Glad I did and ended up here. So thank you again for all the postings on these heaters and the price too. You have all saved me a lot of wasted time.
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# 15
Cardew
Old 02-05-2012, 12:30 PM
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Yet another first time poster feeling compelled to praise heaters.

Care to tell us how much they cost?

P.S.
Heater in spare bedroom set to 'Frost' to prevent damp. How does it achieve that aim?
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# 16
Cardew
Old 02-05-2012, 2:03 PM
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Default Sunflow heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by straighttalk View Post
So, if I plugged in 3 x 1kW electric irons would they heat my living room adequately and cheaply? After all, it seems to me that this is the same schoolboy physics.
The 3 electric irons would not heat the room adequately because they are not designed to deliver a constant 1kW and their thermostat does not work on the air temperature in the room. S

However one thing is absolutely certain, they will give out the same amount of heat, for the same amount of electricity consumed, as your Sunflow heaters.

Aldi had a 20 2kW oil filled radiator(reduced from 30) yesterday, with thermostat(obviously) programable timer and LCD display. That heater will give out exactly the same amount of heat, for the same running cost, as a 2kW Sunflow heater.

Are you still not going to give the price of your heaters? I wonder why not!

Giving your heating bills is absolutely meaningless - what do you think it proves?

Nobody has disputed that the cost of gas/oil boiler replacement and servicing needs to be factored in to running costs - albeit a new boiler every 5-7 years is stretching matters.

Thus, particularly for small properties, and where occupants are out at work all day, electrical heating has a role.

However the point of this and other threads is to point out that all electrical heating is 100% efficient and a 20 heater gives out the same amount of heat as these over-hyped Sunflow heaters.

So Sunflow heaters cost how much?
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# 17
Terrylw1
Old 03-05-2012, 12:11 AM
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Heh Cardew, this could cross over into that infrared thread with directional heating if the irons are steam ones so a quick blast is deployed...combined shower as well...
It's better to live 1 year as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm...but then, whoever heard of a wormskin rug!!!
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# 18
scotia001
Old 03-05-2012, 7:54 AM
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What a load of ill informed twaddle.

How can anyone suggest that every heater performs with the same degree of efficiency - and for the same cost.

Think about it. If you burn a log on an open grate, it will burn quicker and with less efficiency than the same log in a wood burning stove, it will also produce more heat too. So how can the same log produce 2 different results? Surely that proves that different heaters DO produce different results too - think about it!

Incidently, custard, water and other nonsence are NOT good conductors of heat, ever thought why they bother to use clay in kilns.

So it follows that a cheap B&Q fan heater will NOT perform as well or as cheapley as a thermaly insulated heater, which will use less than half the energy (electricity) for more heat and covering a larger area.

The placement of the heater is another factor, as is the room's level of insulation etc, all of which MUST be considered when chossing a heater.

Think of it like this. You want a car to get you from A to B .... would you REALLY not look at the running and service costs first? Cheap heaters cost more in real terms because they break down easier and ARE less efficient in terms of running costs and durability.

You get what you pay for.
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# 19
fishybusiness
Old 03-05-2012, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
The 3 electric irons would not heat the room adequately because they are not designed to deliver a constant 1kW and their thermostat does not work on the air temperature in the room.
So different designs do a better or worse job of producing heat and controlling that heat?

Of course they do. Using the criteria of 100% of the electricity is converted to heat is not the full story. None of us really know how effective different designs are, well none of the vocal people can come up with any true evidence.

For example, why buy an oil filled radiator instead of a convector?

I'd buy an oil filled radiator for my house because I could fix it to a wall that may have curtains drawn near it, or because the brackets are stronger....have you seen Dimplex convector brackets? Cheap, weak and bend very easily if a 5 year old leans on them.

Some people prefer the radiant heat of an oil filled radiator.

I'd buy a fan assisted electric radiator maybe for my shed because it will throw the heat where I want it.

I would maybe buy a more expensive radiator if I was assured it had a good thermostat -again my Dimplex convectors are absolutely rubbish as the thermostat is housed within the airflow area, and the warmest part of the room is at the top. So until the air about 1ft from the floor is warm they keep running. Maybe more expensive ones have a better design?

It is not as simple as you make out Cardew, and sometimes your way of speaking to people that ask about electric heating is quite condescending.

Quote:
Heh Cardew, this could cross over into that infrared thread with directional heating if the irons are steam ones so a quick blast is deployed...combined shower as well...
Oh, and you can come up with the calcs and theory that define efficient use of infra red heating panels.....can you?


Quote:
My friends had night storage heaters which they replaced with Sunflow heaters. Winter quarter - 2464 units in 2011 compared with 6673 units in 2010.
Straighttalk, the unit difference may be down to the storage heaters using a lot of night time electricity on an E7 tariff, which when broken down could be similar in price overall. I guess with old storage heaters they would need boosting, and so newer electric radiators running to create a similar amount of heat may use less units, but at a higher rate.

Last edited by fishybusiness; 03-05-2012 at 9:29 AM. Reason: Typo
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# 20
Terrylw1
Old 03-05-2012, 10:05 PM
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Still not willing to buy one.

I don't need to do the math and come up with the calcs since I'm not trying to sell the product! Besides, you could just read the other thread yourself.
It's better to live 1 year as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm...but then, whoever heard of a wormskin rug!!!

Last edited by Terrylw1; 03-05-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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