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Painting kitchen cupboards with Farrow and Ball
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# 1
Counting_Pennies
Old 25-10-2011, 8:42 AM
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Default Painting kitchen cupboards with Farrow and Ball

Hi all,

I wonder if you can help.

I have tried to get Dulux to colour match a colour I like from Farrow and Ball but it came out incredibly cold and icy looking, so I have decided to stick with Farrow and Ball.

It is to paint my kitchen cupboard doors. I am a little worried as a friend said it is not a great finish, hence the attempt to get a Dulux mix.

I notice there is an Egg Shell for interior, and also one for exterior. I am wondering if I should go for the exterior one to get a more robust finish. Would that be right, or should I just try the interior and hope for the best?

My handy man is giving the cupboard doors a good rubbing down with sand paper to get a good key to the surface.

Any hints I would be grateful
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# 2
devildog
Old 25-10-2011, 9:30 AM
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Sorry have no specific advice-have you thought about giving them a call and asking for their opinion?

What I can say is that I have Farrow and Ball matt paint on kitchen walls and it is really 'tough'. No splash back behind hob and any splashes wipe clean away, at lower levels dog food, grease from dog rubbing along walls etc-it all comes straight off and leaves the paint work as good as new.
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# 3
DirectDebacle
Old 25-10-2011, 9:40 AM
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Have a read of this. Scroll down to FAQ 'Which Paint'.

Also links to 'Painting Tips' on left hand side of page.

I have no association with this site, just thought there was useful info on there.

HTH
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# 4
Enterprise 1701C
Old 25-10-2011, 9:43 AM
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Just to say, we were fitting some phone sockets in a house where they were having everything painted with Farrow and Ball, we spoke to the decorators and they said it was the worst paint to use and they would rather to using something like Dulux or even own label ones. They did not say why it was so bad, but none of the team of decorators was enjoying using it!
What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
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# 5
Corona
Old 25-10-2011, 11:34 AM
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Love F&B colours - good choice!

Not sure about cupboard doors but when I had another F&B query (about which of their paints to use) I went to their website and emailed them. They replied the next day and were very helpful. Why not give it a go ?

If you want to try to find the answer yourself, have a look at the info here:

http://www.farrow-ball.com/product-a...nt/fcp-content

If you can't find what you need, do what i did and click on "contact us" and then on the Product Advice Link under the UK.
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# 6
Meepster
Old 25-10-2011, 4:05 PM
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A company I used to work for would supply a solid oak door, painted in any F&B colour you wanted. However, these doors were spray painted (not brushed) with 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of paint. The paint itself was acrylic based. These doors looked amazing every time.

I have seen many people try to paint their own doors and only rarely is a finished achieved that looks remotely professional. The majority of the time, they look like a gods dinner. If the doors aren't solid wood, they look even worse.

Personally, I think hand painting kitchen cupboard doors is a really bad idea. Even if you manage to get a finish that looks pretty good, I would say the finish wouldn't last for too long, a few years at most. I'd be looking for a company who can spray the doors, to give an even and professional finish that you know you'll be happy with...
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands

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# 7
andycrichton
Old 25-10-2011, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectDebacle View Post
Scroll down to FAQ 'Which Paint'.

Also links to 'Painting Tips' on left hand side of page.

I have no association with this site, just thought there was useful info on there.

HTH
Thanks for mentioning my info. At this time, I am conducting a bit of a survey amongst fellow kitchen painters, and for what it's worth, it seems the Estate Eggshell from Farrow and Ball isnt drying properly these days. Even with their primer undercoat, we are finding that the surface stays tacky to the touch. It is strange indeed, it wont mark to the touch as such, but when you are sanding down, the paper seems to drag. However if you lean say two doors against each other, even a day or two after painting, the paint will stick and lift if you aren't careful - or even if you are careful!

UPDATE: I havent heard any recent reports of this now. Neither did F&B ever get back to say anything has changed. Their customer service on the tech support side is usually pitiful, so no change there.

If you know what you are doing, the estate eggshell does brush out to a nice finish, so cant grumble there.

A lot of painters rubbish F&B wall paint because it is a "posh paint". It is different to Dulux etc, and is flat and chalky and so less durable by nature, but folks like the traditional look. F&B marketing is briliant, and people think it is the only option for the olde worlde look, but there are much better and easier to use "traditional matt paints" that are genuine trade quality.

So I wont ever recommend it first in the list, but as long as you know you need extra coats to achieve a soild finish, F&B is no problem - apart from the eggshell.

Last edited by andycrichton; 26-05-2013 at 12:14 AM. Reason: update on drying issue
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# 8
bluewater
Old 26-10-2011, 9:32 AM
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Default Painting

I'm still in the thros of installing a new kitchen. After much looking I decided to make the drawer fronts and doors and panels and paint them myself. Did a lot of research on the net, particularly on carpenters' forums like this:

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/s...it-t31082.html

The doors and drawer fronts are shaker style and made from mrmdf

I got quotes from two companies to paint the doors - one was 1400 and one 900. So decided to have a go myself. The quotes were for a sprayed finish in acid catalyst lacquer (known as acid cat). This the pretty much the most robust and hard wearing paint available but, after reading the forums I decided to use a waterbourne pigmented lacquer. (not sure if waterbourne is the same as water based) because cleaning up spray equipment is so much easier and there are no fumes which is a problem with acid cat. This particular waterbourne lacquer is apparently nearly as hard as acid cat.

I bought the paint from Morrells who specialise in wood finishes and they have shops nationwide. The waterboune lacquer is called 362 and can be pigmented to any Farrow and Ball colour. It is available in a range of sheens - we went for 20% which is like eggshell. It is best sprayed on and I bought an HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) spray system from here:

http://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/pro...gffkbuhp6dagf1

The paint and primer cost about 100 (5 litres minimum for each) and the spraygun was 66

It's fairly easy to get a good finish with a little practice and I think it would be difficult to get a comparable finish with brushing. It's also very quick (about 30 seconds to spray a door).

I'm very happy with the results and if I knew how I'd post some pictures.

Going back to the OP's questions, I think a lot will depend on the quality of the doors and what they are made of. If brushing then the F & B Estate eggshell is used quite a lot (according to the forums). One tip that is often repeated is to add a little Owatrol oil to the paint which improves flow and reduces brush marks

I know that what I have done might seem a bit ambitious but it really was easy and the results are good.
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# 9
DirectDebacle
Old 26-10-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater View Post
The doors and drawer fronts are shaker style and made from mrmdf
Thanks for sharing that and well done. What did you use to prime the mdf before applying the lacquer. Was the primer spray or brush/roller applied.

Thanks.
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# 10
bluewater
Old 26-10-2011, 12:10 PM
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The primer is a white water based primer supplied by Morrells. It dries very quickly (as does the lacquer) and is easy to sand back using 320 grit.
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# 11
Buttwhy?
Old 26-10-2011, 2:24 PM
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I'm a decorator to trade and I do not like the F&B at all and Dulux can not get an accurate colour match. If a customer specifies a F&B colour I use "The little Greene Paint company" as they can colour match F&B and their interior eggshell would be perfect without any undercoat, unless its bare MDF. As already mentioned use a sponge mini roller and bin it afterwards.
Good luck
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# 12
andycrichton
Old 26-10-2011, 4:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater View Post

It's fairly easy to get a good finish with a little practice and I think it would be difficult to get a comparable finish with brushing. It's also very quick (about 30 seconds to spray a door).

Going back to the OP's questions, I think a lot will depend on the quality of the doors and what they are made of. If brushing then the F & B Estate eggshell is used quite a lot (according to the forums). One tip that is often repeated is to add a little Owatrol oil to the paint which improves flow and reduces brush marks

I know that what I have done might seem a bit ambitious but it really was easy and the results are good.
Fair play to you for going the route you went. Out of interest how many doors and drawers did you paint?

I have sprayed and hand-painted kitchen doors and whole kitchens, and would not agree though that spraying is intrinsically better than brushing in terms of end result. They are just different approaches each with pluses and minuses.

The best sprayers and best painters using their paint of choice will deliver the same beautiful colour kitchen but with a distinctly different look. Which is great. Not everyone likes the traditional look, not everyone likes the perfect laminate look.

And with paint it is horses for courses. You spraying with tinted Morrells lacquer system v bad painter with F&B eggshell system, you win hands down. Good kitchen painter brush finishing with Little Greene oil eggshell, whats not to like


With speed of job, it depends on what you are comparing. Doing just doors and drawers in water-based paint, you are right, spray v brush is quite speedy in terms of getting the paint on quicker, but you are still rubbing down between coats, right, to give your paint a key? So not a great deal in it, you work a bit less but cant really finish much quicker overall.

When repainting a whole kitchen, having done the maths, its the hare and the tortoise syndrome. There isnt much between spray and brush in terms of time or effort to complete a whole kitchen - doors, drawers, frames, cornices, plinths and end panels - where you want everything to coordinate rather than look like an add-on. Spraying each coat is faster, sanding between coats takes the same time, Masking up frames is a time-consuming pain...

If painting inside of cupboards, that is faster by spray, but for most kitchen use, that is generally not a good plan.

Some painters take doors away to spray them (for speed, correct) and hand-paint frames cornice etc in situ (for ease of working, correct) but brushed frames and sprayed doors/drawers doesnt really work aesthetically.

(btw F&B eggshell is water-borne ie alkyd resin in water. One theory that has come up about why F&B went this "eco" route is that alkyd resin is dirt cheap compared to acrylic resin used in tried and tested premium water-based trim paint - just saying!) Floetrol is to condition water-based paint, Owatrol is strictly for oil paint.

Last edited by andycrichton; 26-10-2011 at 5:02 PM.
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# 13
bluewater
Old 26-10-2011, 5:37 PM
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There are 16 drawer fronts including 8 1000mm deep drawers and 9 doors, plus some end panels, plinth, pelmet and cornice.

You are right - despite spraying being quick it's preparation and cleaning up and 2 coats of primer and 3 top coats that takes a lot of time. And for most pieces you have to paint both sides. The edges I did with a brush except for the top coat.

Overall maybe it's no quicker than a brush or roller. The sprayed finish is good though. Rightly or wrongly I got the impression that the tougher finish was only available with paints that are best sprayed.

I think that brushing would be good with solid wood doors where you want the grain to show. With smooth mdf I was concerned that I wouldn't get a smooth finish with a brush. A roller might be ok though
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# 14
andycrichton
Old 26-10-2011, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater View Post
There are 16 drawer fronts including 8 1000mm deep drawers and 9 doors, plus some end panels, plinth, pelmet and cornice.
Thats interesting. From the figures you were quoted, the cost of spraying and the cost of hand-painted are much of a muchness, although the 1400 sounds a bit spendy!


Quote:
Overall maybe it's no quicker than a brush or roller. The sprayed finish is good though. Rightly or wrongly I got the impression that the tougher finish was only available with paints that are best sprayed.
Thats probably accurate, to be fair. But having said that there are hand-painted kitchens out there with many many years under their belt and doing well. If they have 3 or more finish coats they will last, or 1 oil undercoat and 2 oil topcoats. And you can easily do a couple of maintainence coats further down the road before the wear gets too far gone - and give your kitchen yet another lease of life.

Quote:
I think that brushing would be good with solid wood doors where you want the grain to show. With smooth mdf I was concerned that I wouldn't get a smooth finish with a brush. A roller might be ok though
Most hand-made wooden kitchens regardless of price nowadays are poplar frames with MDF panels, so we have to get them looking nice. If you laid on paint with a dense foam roller (the black foam) and laid off with something like a Wooster Alpha brush, MDF paints up pretty nice and even.

Loads of ways to skin an acid cat
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