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    • poppity
    • By poppity 12th Mar 17, 9:43 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    There are some radiators, one per room, but not enough I think even if they worked. Eg bedroom 5.2m x 4.2m with 1 90x90" window and 2 60 x 60" windows and 1 radiator
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 12th Mar 17, 10:19 AM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,996 Thanks
    Cardew
    If you were contemplating spending £10k - albeit reluctantly - I would bite the bullet and get full oil fired central heating(I assume gas is not available.)

    Get some quotes and in particular see if the radiators are correctly sized for each room. Depending on what is required you might get a tank and system for £5k or so.
    • poppity
    • By poppity 12th Mar 17, 10:36 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    Thanks Cardew. Yes, gas not available.

    Somehow it seems like a step backwards installing oil when newer 'green' things are being talked about and oil seems old fashioned in comparison... but my priority is obviously a working system that I can afford to get installed and then run and not have continuing issues with all the time- feeding that stove is like having a second baby at times, it needs constant attention!

    I liked the idea of the other heaters as there was no mess involved in install etc but I guess when something seems to good to be true then it is.....appreciate the advice thanks.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 12th Mar 17, 1:09 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped

    The previous owner had used electric storage heaters in the past, I assume, as its an economy 7 meter, hence my interest in the 'new' 'future' heaters (!). I gather from reading this thread that putting back in Dimplex or other night storage heaters might be my best option for heating but I have two things I'm stuck on if anyone could help:
    Originally posted by poppity
    I assume the storage heaters are no longer in situ? If that is so, then indeed, these would be the best immediate solution. As you are now aware, they are the cheapest all electric way of heating a property.

    However, if you had the funds, and were prepared to spend 10k, I would agree with Cardew regarding the installation of a modern oil fired boiler.

    Unless you have Gas available to install, the is the next best/most efficient solution. It will be cheaper to run than electricity, greener than electricity (if you take into account the efficiency of the national grid). It will also be more convenient to use than storage heaters and should improve the value of the property (in some way compensating for the initial outlay).

    Your view may be coloured by oil boilers of old. Modern oil fired boilers can be A rated and are produced by some of the major manufacturers.

    There are of course downsides, but....everything has it's pros/cons.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 12-03-2017 at 1:18 PM.
    • EJB
    • By EJB 12th Mar 17, 5:03 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    EJB
    Thank you for your comments.
    They have confirmed all my initial reactions.
    After reading the blurbs and listening to a presentation it was obviously designed to be closed in one visit.
    Very scary to think what could have happened if myself and my better half were not there!

    She now has a sensible choice of local estimates to upgrade the gas CH...below £4k.

    PS. The quote was for full installation and removal of all the gas CH system.
    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    There were many similar comments but boredom prevailed.

    Thanks again.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 12th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,996 Thanks
    Cardew
    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    Originally posted by EJB
    I take it that was a verbal statement by the salesman??
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 12th Mar 17, 6:24 PM
    • 6,313 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Unless they own their own windfarm and only the wind energy amount they generate is sold its one more claim without any evidence. Considering the cost of dirty materials, manufacturing, transport and the fact that they only produce @ 20% of their rating while we pay for them and 100% of the legislated back up per kWh needed its the usual 'green' marketing.

    Today as I write this wind is making a mere 2.3 of the UK's 38.6 gW needs according to gridwatch, all these years all that pointless taxpayer money and gas & nuclear are still doing 90% of the UK's needs.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Mar 17, 8:16 PM
    • 1,571 Posts
    • 2,083 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    all these years all that pointless taxpayer money and gas & nuclear are still doing 90% of the UK's needs.
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro
    I don't think this is the place to discuss all the pointless taxpayer's money spent on nuclear, and the money that will have to be spent on decommissioning, even if we did get a few bombs out of it..
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 12th Mar 17, 9:50 PM
    • 6,313 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    I don't think this is the place to discuss all the pointless taxpayer's money spent on nuclear, and the money that will have to be spent on decommissioning, even if we did get a few bombs out of it..
    Originally posted by silverwhistle

    You are innacurate and off topic. I responded directly to EJB's comment on fishers use of wind farm electricity.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • EJB
    • By EJB 13th Mar 17, 8:35 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    EJB
    I take it that was a verbal statement by the salesman??
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Yes it was. One of many!
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
    • 3,209 Posts
    • 1,704 Thanks
    lstar337
    Thank you for your comments.
    They have confirmed all my initial reactions.
    After reading the blurbs and listening to a presentation it was obviously designed to be closed in one visit.
    Very scary to think what could have happened if myself and my better half were not there!

    She now has a sensible choice of local estimates to upgrade the gas CH...below £4k.

    PS. The quote was for full installation and removal of all the gas CH system.
    Originally posted by EJB
    Ypu have made the right choice IMHO, good luck with the upgrade.

    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    Originally posted by EJB
    Interesting claim, I would like to know how the fischer heater is able to filter out the wind farm generated electricity from all the other sources in the grid. I'm sure a few people who are committed to renewables would like to get their hands on that technology.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Mar 17, 9:25 AM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,996 Thanks
    Cardew
    Ypu have made the right choice IMHO, good luck with the upgrade.

    Interesting claim, I would like to know how the fischer heater is able to filter out the wind farm generated electricity from all the other sources in the grid. I'm sure a few people who are committed to renewables would like to get their hands on that technology.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    Perhaps they only work on windy days?
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Mar 17, 9:28 AM
    • 3,209 Posts
    • 1,704 Thanks
    lstar337
    Thanks Cardew. Yes, gas not available.

    Somehow it seems like a step backwards installing oil when newer 'green' things are being talked about and oil seems old fashioned in comparison... but my priority is obviously a working system that I can afford to get installed and then run and not have continuing issues with all the time- feeding that stove is like having a second baby at times, it needs constant attention!

    I liked the idea of the other heaters as there was no mess involved in install etc but I guess when something seems to good to be true then it is.....appreciate the advice thanks.
    Originally posted by poppity
    I agree with cardew and cashstrapped on this one, Oil is going to be the best bet for comfort vs cost.

    Heating with electrical sources is pretty expensive compared to some of the options, and with a property like yours you are going to have to sacrifice your comfort in order to reduce your costs.

    As for green options, when it comes to heating a property your options are limited. If you really wanted to go green, my suggestion would probably be a high efficiency electrically powered system such as a ground source heat pump, combined with a supplier/tariff with a guaranteed percentage of renewable generation. However, you will quickly notice that being green and reducing your costs are very difficult to do. Being green costs money, and that isn't going to change that much in the near future.
    • douglasm999
    • By douglasm999 4th Jul 17, 4:24 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    douglasm999
    Proof of the pudding
    The proof of the pudding with Fischer’s claims on efficiency is whether they are willing to defend them against evidence to the contrary. I have had a Fischer system in my flat for the last four years and am now selling the property. A requirement for selling in Scotland is that the seller has a home report and Energy Performance Certificate prepared by a RICS-approved surveyor which are made available to anyone expressing an interest in buying. The EPC I received states replacing the Fischer system (which cost almost £6000) with high heat retention storage heaters at a cost of £1600-2400 would save £1995 over three years.

    I emailed Fischer with this information asking for comments and received no reply. After more emails and four telephone calls with repeated promises an engineer would call back to discuss ‘when he gets back from lunch’ and ‘in a few minutes’, I finally received a call from a Fischer engineer who committed to speak to the surveyor. He did not. I then posted a review on Trustpilot which the company blocked because I had supposedly not provided a reference by which they could identify me as a genuine customer. Strangely enough I provided the reference they always ask for on the telephone and it seemed to be enough because the CEO of the company telephoned me first thing the next morning regarding the review.

    His contention was that EPCs were out of date and it was all the government’s fault and he was making representation to them. Fine, make that response on Trustpilot, don’t simply try to gag me. He agreed to do that and also promised to speak to the surveyor. He has done neither.

    Draw your own conclusions.
    • Kess
    • By Kess 4th Jul 17, 7:37 AM
    • 108 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Kess
    I then posted a review on Trustpilot which the company blocked because I had supposedly not provided a reference by which they could identify me as a genuine customer.
    Originally posted by douglasm999
    Disappointing to hear that Trustpilot can still be easily abused. Several years ago I had problems with a company that had amazing Trustpilot reviews. It turned out they were satisfying some customers, and providing them with reference numbers so they could leave good reviews, while systematically ripping off others. I was one of the ripped off ones and, lacking the magic reference number, could do nothing to counter the good reviews.
    After complaints from myself and others, Trustpilot eventually turned off the reference number requirement for that company. The sudden flood of negative reviews was a sight to behold!
    I now take Trustpilot with a large pinch of salt.
    Last edited by Kess; 04-07-2017 at 7:40 AM.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 4th Jul 17, 9:59 AM
    • 3,209 Posts
    • 1,704 Thanks
    lstar337
    The proof of the pudding with Fischer’s claims on efficiency is whether they are willing to defend them against evidence to the contrary. I have had a Fischer system in my flat for the last four years and am now selling the property. A requirement for selling in Scotland is that the seller has a home report and Energy Performance Certificate prepared by a RICS-approved surveyor which are made available to anyone expressing an interest in buying. The EPC I received states replacing the Fischer system (which cost almost £6000) with high heat retention storage heaters at a cost of £1600-2400 would save £1995 over three years.

    I emailed Fischer with this information asking for comments and received no reply. After more emails and four telephone calls with repeated promises an engineer would call back to discuss ‘when he gets back from lunch’ and ‘in a few minutes’, I finally received a call from a Fischer engineer who committed to speak to the surveyor. He did not. I then posted a review on Trustpilot which the company blocked because I had supposedly not provided a reference by which they could identify me as a genuine customer. Strangely enough I provided the reference they always ask for on the telephone and it seemed to be enough because the CEO of the company telephoned me first thing the next morning regarding the review.

    His contention was that EPCs were out of date and it was all the government’s fault and he was making representation to them. Fine, make that response on Trustpilot, don’t simply try to gag me. He agreed to do that and also promised to speak to the surveyor. He has done neither.

    Draw your own conclusions.
    Originally posted by douglasm999
    Thanks for reporting your experience. Hopefully it wont get removed from this thread as I think it is valuable feedback from a genuine customer.

    P.S. we have seen this Trust Pilot trick used before. I would consider contacting Trust Pilot to express your concern over abuse of their review system.
    • netto
    • By netto 19th Jul 17, 12:20 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    netto
    All the comments about Fischer heaters were wrong: now it's clearly proven
    The Proof is in the heating: It's Proven beyond doubt:

    We have been looking at this thread over 5 years , now we can clearly prove that these trowls on the site have no idea what they are talking about, we now know that Fischer heaters are more efficient than Dimplex Quantum , conventional storage heaters, also Gas central heating, thanks to Fischer you have just completed a head to head testing of various products. it's impressive to read the report by BRE in Watford. The Scientists have proven all the so-called experts wrong on this site. Anyway who really thinks these posters really know anything about heating and efficiency.According yo them all heaters are the same. Now they are proven wrong.
    I would just like to put the facts to all readers, as these posters have distorted the facts for too long. I know who I believe the science or them!!!
    Here are the facts; as per the independent tests conducted by BRE( British research establishment) a renowned and respected body
    The test was conducted in a 42 cubic metres area at 21 degrees centigrade and the consumption for the type of heating was as follows:
    Fischer dynamic storage heater used 1265 watts per hour
    Fischer premium Storage heater used 1168 watts per hour
    Dimplex Quantum storage heater used 1852 watts per hour
    Creda night storage heater used 1935 watts per hour
    Gas central heating used 1897 watts per hour.

    The proof is now clear that Fischer heaters use less energy than any other type of conventional heating.
    All the ASA rulings about Fischer are proven to be wrong and hence I want all readers to take note that if they want to challenge this, please undertake independent testing before you make any more comments, otherwise your comments are just hot air ...
    I have seen the evidence and soon this evidence will be published on the website, there are 50 pages of this report, the most comprehensive report to show the use of dynamic storage heaters of Fischer is the answer to comfortable heating in your home.
    The evidence shows it's a good replacement for central heating without the need for boilers , pipes and annual maintenance.

    Don't bother to challenge this until you conduct independent tests that can prove this result wrong.
    We rest our case
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 19th Jul 17, 8:11 AM
    • 2,125 Posts
    • 3,132 Thanks
    EachPenny
    ...it's impressive to read the report by BRE in Watford. The Scientists have proven all the so-called experts wrong on this site. Anyway who really thinks these posters really know anything about heating and efficiency.According yo them all heaters are the same. Now they are proven wrong.
    I would just like to put the facts to all readers, as these posters have distorted the facts for too long. I know who I believe the science or them!!!
    Here are the facts; as per the independent tests conducted by BRE( British research establishment) a renowned and respected body

    ...I want all readers to take note that if they want to challenge this, please undertake independent testing before you make any more comments, otherwise your comments are just hot air ...

    I have seen the evidence and soon this evidence will be published on the website...

    Don't bother to challenge this until you conduct independent tests that can prove this result wrong.
    We rest our case
    Originally posted by netto
    Interesting 'facts'. Were you aware the BRE is actually the Building Research Establishment, or is that just a typo? At least the 'renowned and respected body' I know of is called that, although you might be reading a report from a different 'renowned and respected body' possibly?

    The 'facts' you have presented are limited in scope, and extracted from what you suggest is a very much longer report by the BRE. I would like to read the full report to understand the context of the data, particularly to see whether the figures represent typical 'real-world' operation in people's homes. As with tests of fuel consumption for motor vehicles, a standardised 'test' can produce results which in no way represent the real-world experience of any particular owner.

    Unfortunately we cannot see the report yet, presumably you mean that the report will be published on the BRE website soon, and you have already seen a draft version?

    Until the full report is available I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions from your 'facts', and I also won't bother taking up your suggestion of obtaining my own independent testing, since the BRE report - when published - should give the information needed.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 19th Jul 17, 10:12 AM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,996 Thanks
    Cardew
    The Proof is in the heating: It's Proven beyond doubt:
    Originally posted by netto
    Your last post was singing the praises of Wibo heaters

    I have had wibo heaters for 4 years. They are very efficient in the way they heat and have a good climate control system to stop wastage.They are low input storage heaters and hence only use 50% of the wattage of Night storage heaters, with the benefits of storage and temperature control working together. The heaters are better than Night storage. The cost of the system although expensive has proved to be a excellent heating.
    In your latest nonsense , you have re-written the laws of Physics.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 19th Jul 17, 12:38 PM
    • 3,209 Posts
    • 1,704 Thanks
    lstar337
    The Proof is in the heating: It's Proven beyond doubt:

    We have been looking at this thread over 5 years , now we can clearly prove that these trowls on the site have no idea what they are talking about, we now know that Fischer heaters are more efficient than Dimplex Quantum , conventional storage heaters, also Gas central heating, thanks to Fischer you have just completed a head to head testing of various products. it's impressive to read the report by BRE in Watford. The Scientists have proven all the so-called experts wrong on this site. Anyway who really thinks these posters really know anything about heating and efficiency.According yo them all heaters are the same. Now they are proven wrong.
    I would just like to put the facts to all readers, as these posters have distorted the facts for too long. I know who I believe the science or them!!!
    Here are the facts; as per the independent tests conducted by BRE( British research establishment) a renowned and respected body
    The test was conducted in a 42 cubic metres area at 21 degrees centigrade and the consumption for the type of heating was as follows:
    Fischer dynamic storage heater used 1265 watts per hour
    Fischer premium Storage heater used 1168 watts per hour
    Dimplex Quantum storage heater used 1852 watts per hour
    Creda night storage heater used 1935 watts per hour
    Gas central heating used 1897 watts per hour.

    The proof is now clear that Fischer heaters use less energy than any other type of conventional heating.
    All the ASA rulings about Fischer are proven to be wrong and hence I want all readers to take note that if they want to challenge this, please undertake independent testing before you make any more comments, otherwise your comments are just hot air ...
    I have seen the evidence and soon this evidence will be published on the website, there are 50 pages of this report, the most comprehensive report to show the use of dynamic storage heaters of Fischer is the answer to comfortable heating in your home.
    The evidence shows it's a good replacement for central heating without the need for boilers , pipes and annual maintenance.

    Don't bother to challenge this until you conduct independent tests that can prove this result wrong.
    We rest our case
    Originally posted by netto
    Given your standard of writing I would be surprised if you could read a 50 page report, let alone understand it correctly.

    That would be if said report existed, which I doubt it does.
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