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    • poppity
    • By poppity 11th Mar 17, 11:21 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    I have just finished reading this whole thread, and have joined MSE specifically to be able to post my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to post such useful information.

    I I have just moved into a new house with a small baby and found the heating system doesn't really work at all....I was about to spend upwards of 10k I don't have on radiators that would have left me with crippling bills.

    I am gutted that the so-called-solution I had pinned my hopes on won't work, but so relieved that I found out before I spent any money on it. Back to the drawing board for me....

    It really isn't easy to find unbiased information about these products in the public domain, but this thread and its links to the ASA are invaluable. Thank you.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 12th Mar 17, 2:18 AM
    • 1,083 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    I have just finished reading this whole thread, and have joined MSE specifically to be able to post my ........
    Originally posted by poppity
    Glad you found it helpful poppity.

    What is your current heating set-up? Maybe we can help/advise.
    • poppity
    • By poppity 12th Mar 17, 8:42 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    Thanks for the offer, I need all the advice I can get!

    My current system is bungalow, with a multi fuel burner in the living room which is supposed to power the heating system and hot water, (although there is an electric element in the tank also). To keep the burner going from 7am-10pm (keeping room warm enough for baby) takes 10kg of coal and 10kg of wood per day, but although this creates a big fire in the burner, and therefore heats this one room, it doesn't trigger the hot water or heating system.

    Two different hetas engineers have told me the system as it is setup could never have worked, too many radiators, too many rooms etc, and they suspect various bits were put together second hand that don't work together simply in order to get the sale through...., Realistically what we've got is a load of pipework and a fire in the living room that can heat that room, so a complete rethink is needed.

    The heatas engineer suggests is I put in an oil tank, oil boiler, smaller hot water cylinder and new radiators in the bedrooms which would get us affordable hot water and could run the radiators for the bedrooms off this system for between £4 and £5k. As for the rest of the house, he said he wasn't sure what to suggest as any solution would be very expensive.

    The previous owner had used electric storage heaters in the past, I assume, as its an economy 7 meter, hence my interest in the 'new' 'future' heaters (!). I gather from reading this thread that putting back in Dimplex or other night storage heaters might be my best option for heating but I have two things I'm stuck on if anyone could help:

    1, How to work out how many to buy and what wattage and
    2. what to do to get hot water. At the moment the immersion element on economy 7 day time rate is horribly expensive.

    Its a bungalow and a u shape, so every room has at least 2 outside walls, and although it does have very good loft insulation it does lose heat. Thanks.
    • ChaunceyGardiner
    • By ChaunceyGardiner 12th Mar 17, 9:02 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    ChaunceyGardiner
    Does each room already have a radiator?
    • poppity
    • By poppity 12th Mar 17, 9:43 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    There are some radiators, one per room, but not enough I think even if they worked. Eg bedroom 5.2m x 4.2m with 1 90x90" window and 2 60 x 60" windows and 1 radiator
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 12th Mar 17, 10:19 AM
    • 26,489 Posts
    • 12,749 Thanks
    Cardew
    If you were contemplating spending £10k - albeit reluctantly - I would bite the bullet and get full oil fired central heating(I assume gas is not available.)

    Get some quotes and in particular see if the radiators are correctly sized for each room. Depending on what is required you might get a tank and system for £5k or so.
    • poppity
    • By poppity 12th Mar 17, 10:36 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    poppity
    Thanks Cardew. Yes, gas not available.

    Somehow it seems like a step backwards installing oil when newer 'green' things are being talked about and oil seems old fashioned in comparison... but my priority is obviously a working system that I can afford to get installed and then run and not have continuing issues with all the time- feeding that stove is like having a second baby at times, it needs constant attention!

    I liked the idea of the other heaters as there was no mess involved in install etc but I guess when something seems to good to be true then it is.....appreciate the advice thanks.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 12th Mar 17, 1:09 PM
    • 1,083 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    CashStrapped

    The previous owner had used electric storage heaters in the past, I assume, as its an economy 7 meter, hence my interest in the 'new' 'future' heaters (!). I gather from reading this thread that putting back in Dimplex or other night storage heaters might be my best option for heating but I have two things I'm stuck on if anyone could help:
    Originally posted by poppity
    I assume the storage heaters are no longer in situ? If that is so, then indeed, these would be the best immediate solution. As you are now aware, they are the cheapest all electric way of heating a property.

    However, if you had the funds, and were prepared to spend 10k, I would agree with Cardew regarding the installation of a modern oil fired boiler.

    Unless you have Gas available to install, the is the next best/most efficient solution. It will be cheaper to run than electricity, greener than electricity (if you take into account the efficiency of the national grid). It will also be more convenient to use than storage heaters and should improve the value of the property (in some way compensating for the initial outlay).

    Your view may be coloured by oil boilers of old. Modern oil fired boilers can be A rated and are produced by some of the major manufacturers.

    There are of course downsides, but....everything has it's pros/cons.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 12-03-2017 at 1:18 PM.
    • EJB
    • By EJB 12th Mar 17, 5:03 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    EJB
    Thank you for your comments.
    They have confirmed all my initial reactions.
    After reading the blurbs and listening to a presentation it was obviously designed to be closed in one visit.
    Very scary to think what could have happened if myself and my better half were not there!

    She now has a sensible choice of local estimates to upgrade the gas CH...below £4k.

    PS. The quote was for full installation and removal of all the gas CH system.
    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    There were many similar comments but boredom prevailed.

    Thanks again.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 12th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    • 26,489 Posts
    • 12,749 Thanks
    Cardew
    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    Originally posted by EJB
    I take it that was a verbal statement by the salesman??
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 12th Mar 17, 6:24 PM
    • 6,285 Posts
    • 4,734 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Unless they own their own windfarm and only the wind energy amount they generate is sold its one more claim without any evidence. Considering the cost of dirty materials, manufacturing, transport and the fact that they only produce @ 20% of their rating while we pay for them and 100% of the legislated back up per kWh needed its the usual 'green' marketing.

    Today as I write this wind is making a mere 2.3 of the UK's 38.6 gW needs according to gridwatch, all these years all that pointless taxpayer money and gas & nuclear are still doing 90% of the UK's needs.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Mar 17, 8:16 PM
    • 1,401 Posts
    • 1,844 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    all these years all that pointless taxpayer money and gas & nuclear are still doing 90% of the UK's needs.
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro
    I don't think this is the place to discuss all the pointless taxpayer's money spent on nuclear, and the money that will have to be spent on decommissioning, even if we did get a few bombs out of it..
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 12th Mar 17, 9:50 PM
    • 6,285 Posts
    • 4,734 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    I don't think this is the place to discuss all the pointless taxpayer's money spent on nuclear, and the money that will have to be spent on decommissioning, even if we did get a few bombs out of it..
    Originally posted by silverwhistle

    You are innacurate and off topic. I responded directly to EJB's comment on fishers use of wind farm electricity.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • EJB
    • By EJB 13th Mar 17, 8:35 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    EJB
    I take it that was a verbal statement by the salesman??
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Yes it was. One of many!
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
    • 3,020 Posts
    • 1,579 Thanks
    lstar337
    Thank you for your comments.
    They have confirmed all my initial reactions.
    After reading the blurbs and listening to a presentation it was obviously designed to be closed in one visit.
    Very scary to think what could have happened if myself and my better half were not there!

    She now has a sensible choice of local estimates to upgrade the gas CH...below £4k.

    PS. The quote was for full installation and removal of all the gas CH system.
    Originally posted by EJB
    Ypu have made the right choice IMHO, good luck with the upgrade.

    As a finishing thought....I didn't realise that Fischer systems used mainly electricity from wind farms.
    Originally posted by EJB
    Interesting claim, I would like to know how the fischer heater is able to filter out the wind farm generated electricity from all the other sources in the grid. I'm sure a few people who are committed to renewables would like to get their hands on that technology.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Mar 17, 9:25 AM
    • 26,489 Posts
    • 12,749 Thanks
    Cardew
    Ypu have made the right choice IMHO, good luck with the upgrade.

    Interesting claim, I would like to know how the fischer heater is able to filter out the wind farm generated electricity from all the other sources in the grid. I'm sure a few people who are committed to renewables would like to get their hands on that technology.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    Perhaps they only work on windy days?
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Mar 17, 9:28 AM
    • 3,020 Posts
    • 1,579 Thanks
    lstar337
    Thanks Cardew. Yes, gas not available.

    Somehow it seems like a step backwards installing oil when newer 'green' things are being talked about and oil seems old fashioned in comparison... but my priority is obviously a working system that I can afford to get installed and then run and not have continuing issues with all the time- feeding that stove is like having a second baby at times, it needs constant attention!

    I liked the idea of the other heaters as there was no mess involved in install etc but I guess when something seems to good to be true then it is.....appreciate the advice thanks.
    Originally posted by poppity
    I agree with cardew and cashstrapped on this one, Oil is going to be the best bet for comfort vs cost.

    Heating with electrical sources is pretty expensive compared to some of the options, and with a property like yours you are going to have to sacrifice your comfort in order to reduce your costs.

    As for green options, when it comes to heating a property your options are limited. If you really wanted to go green, my suggestion would probably be a high efficiency electrically powered system such as a ground source heat pump, combined with a supplier/tariff with a guaranteed percentage of renewable generation. However, you will quickly notice that being green and reducing your costs are very difficult to do. Being green costs money, and that isn't going to change that much in the near future.
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