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    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 18th Sep 16, 9:42 AM
    • 26,717 Posts
    • 12,920 Thanks
    Cardew
    Anyone seen Rip Off Britain about infra red heaters?
    Originally posted by r2015
    Yes, these heaters were not only a complete rip-off but dangerous.

    This is the link and the article starts at about 13 minutes 30 seconds

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07w5qkq/rip-off-britain-series-8-episode-4

    Although this is an extreme case(and nothing to do with the title of this thread) similar rip-off electrical heating systems have been on sale in UK for years.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 19th Sep 16, 8:59 AM
    • 3,171 Posts
    • 1,675 Thanks
    lstar337
    Yes, these heaters were not only a complete rip-off but dangerous.

    This is the link and the article starts at about 13 minutes 30 seconds

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07w5qkq/rip-off-britain-series-8-episode-4

    Although this is an extreme case(and nothing to do with the title of this thread) similar rip-off electrical heating systems have been on sale in UK for years.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    That's a good thing to keep handy for the next time we get a glut of new 'How good are Infra Red heaters?' threads.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 19th Sep 16, 9:00 AM
    • 3,171 Posts
    • 1,675 Thanks
    lstar337
    I actually got a flier through from Fischer the other day, sadly they seem to be doing water heaters too now.
    • Jayceeme
    • By Jayceeme 16th Oct 16, 12:45 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Jayceeme
    fischer radiator cost
    Radiators/storage heaters cost depending on size from £800 to £1500+- EACH
    • Jayceeme
    • By Jayceeme 16th Oct 16, 12:59 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Jayceeme
    They are NOT CHEAPER TO RUN after 174 days post installation we got electricity bill for £898 and warning from utility supplier that year end bill would be in excess of £1600!! We immediately switched them off contacted Fischer with whom we are still in dispute! Response from Fischer "our installation team advised changing from Economy 10 tarrif and you refused as wanted to compare running cost? If on single tarrif they would have been cheaper. Fischer does not compensate customers who experience high running cost but we have authorised our dedicated energy supply switch team to contact you"
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 16th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    changing from Economy 10 tarrif...
    Originally posted by Jayceeme
    This alone should/could save you a lot of money (based on predicted usage). In fact, much of the current cost could be due to this. Unless you somehow timed the heaters to use economy 10 periods only. E10 and E7 are designed for storage heaters only. Outside of cheap periods, these tariffs are very expensive. Panel heaters, like the fischer ones, will be using (most likely) this extortionate rate.

    Do you have annual usage figures for past total use. You now need to compare tariffs based on that figure. Ignore comparing e7 tariffs or e10 as they are no longer suitable.

    If you do not have figures for comparison, average (all electric) users can use between 5000 -7000kwh (if not more). Try comparing a range of figures and see what comes up cheapest....and switch.

    Unfortunately this is a lesson, to anyone. Do your homework before believing any marketing hype.
    • ElefantEd
    • By ElefantEd 16th Oct 16, 3:55 PM
    • 508 Posts
    • 959 Thanks
    ElefantEd
    I was curious about this company so got them to come around and give us a quote. They were very pleasant people, as you'd expect, and not particularly pushy. However, to install 3 radiators in one room (as a trial, so we could see for ourselves how good they were, at a "45% discount"), they were quoting at nearly £4k. For one room (and not our largest by a long long way)!

    That buys an awful lot of heating oil, or indeed a cheap electric heater and plenty of electricity.

    At that kind of price I don't know how anyone would even contemplate them as an option, though to be fair they might be more suitable for heating a small conservatory or the like.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 16th Oct 16, 5:05 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    However, to install 3 radiators in one room (as a trial, so we could see for ourselves how good they were, at a "45% discount"), they were quoting at nearly £4k. For one room (and not our largest by a long long way)!
    Originally posted by ElefantEd
    What was the KW rating of each heater out of interest?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 16th Oct 16, 5:28 PM
    • 26,717 Posts
    • 12,920 Thanks
    Cardew
    At that kind of price I don't know how anyone would even contemplate them as an option, though to be fair they might be more suitable for heating a small conservatory or the like.
    Originally posted by ElefantEd
    Wouldn't one of these also be suitable?

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=3+bar+electric+fire&qpvt=3+bar+electric+f ire&qpvt=3+bar+electric+fire&qpvt=3+bar+electric+f ire&FORM=IQFRML
    • Jayceeme
    • By Jayceeme 16th Oct 16, 8:00 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Jayceeme
    This alone should/could save you a lot of money (based on predicted usage). In fact, much of the current cost could be due to this. Unless you somehow timed the heaters to use economy 10 periods only. E10 and E7 are designed for storage heaters only. Outside of cheap periods, these tariffs are very expensive. Panel heaters, like the fischer ones, will be using (most likely) this extortionate rate.

    Do you have annual usage figures for past total use. You now need to compare tariffs based on that figure. Ignore comparing e7 tariffs or e10 as they are no longer suitable.

    If you do not have figures for comparison, average (all electric) users can use between 5000 -7000kwh (if not more). Try comparing a range of figures and see what comes up cheapest....and switch.

    Unfortunately this is a lesson, to anyone. Do your homework before believing any marketing hype.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    Thank you yes i have same period previous years meter readings and have been on comparison sites with these and am in the process of changing tarrif and supplier, also have been doing load test comparison with heaters on timer and not and results have been jaw dropping. As of today heaters are to be used only as last resort until tariff changed or Fischer remove them. Thanks again
    • ElefantEd
    • By ElefantEd 16th Oct 16, 8:22 PM
    • 508 Posts
    • 959 Thanks
    ElefantEd
    What was the KW rating of each heater out of interest?
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    The total was 7.2kW if I remember correctly - three were needed rather than two because of the size of the available spaces on the walls. Can't remember the individual sizes, the smallest was 1.2kW I think.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 16th Oct 16, 8:27 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Can't remember the individual sizes, the smallest was 1.2kW I think.
    Originally posted by ElefantEd
    So if you compare what they offer, to something like this (if you wanted modern looking wall hung heaters).

    https://www.heatershop.co.uk/dimplex-plx-ti-panel-heaters

    The 1.25KWH wall hung heaters, which are pretty slim, look good. They have thermostats and timers which ensures they have all the controls you need for efficiency.

    Three of those would cost £357!!!

    Compared to the 4k from fischer, just demonstrates what a rip off they are.

    They would be just as efficient than any of the fischer heaters.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 16-10-2016 at 8:52 PM.
    • Kemilyb
    • By Kemilyb 21st Oct 16, 4:33 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kemilyb
    Price=MEGGA
    I've only just found this forum.
    I have a 3 bed, terraced, x council house, with 7, old storage heaters, that need replacing. 2 Large and 5 small. Wanted 3 large and 4 small.
    Just had a staggering quote. We guessed before hand about £4,500 to £6,000. .
    The Quote. . £10,400. An average of £1,486 EACH. And the FREE heating survey was awful, hard sell, no answers to direct questions, and lots of jargon, and science, that I'm sure was supposed to sound impressive, and I wasn't supposed to understand, just be dumbly impressed.
    I asked for no silly gimmicks during the survey, but I got nothing but that.
    Because I said I had 2 quotes already, and wouldn't tell him who with, he managed to put a slur on the products and services of every company he could think of.
    I'm totally sceptical of any company that is scared to tell you the price indication of their products.
    And he tried to give me a discount, if I put the deposit down NOW. . .NO WAY. Very poor conduct of the guy on the survey. . which was actually a Sales man. . Who was more like a dodgy car sales man. . Honestly "insert name" I wouldn't lie to you. . . "insert name" I only am passionate because our product is so much superior and I believe that you need it "insert name" . . .Blah blah. He repeated my name in EVERY sentence for 2 hours. I can just imagine the sales course he went on. Worst 2 hours of my life.
    I knew I wouldn't use them 2 mins after him arriving. . Before knowing the price.
    It is a good product, but not worth the hilarious price.
    I just want to add, that I made it quite clear that I wanted night storage heaters before booking my quote/sales appointment, as that is what I have now. They said yes correct. However the sales guy, tried to insist that I would need to change off of E7, because these Fischer heaters are NOT totally night storage heater, and DO continue to use electric during the day. Saying that even after I did this I'd be saving on electric. . I'm not so sure. My current antique night storage heaters are not expensive to run on E7.
    Last edited by Kemilyb; 25-10-2016 at 7:31 AM.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 21st Oct 16, 7:00 PM
    • 6,311 Posts
    • 4,748 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    I've only just found this forum.
    I have a 3 bed, terraced, x council house, with 7, old storage heaters, that need replacing. 2 Large and 5 small. Wanted 3 large and 4 small.
    Just had a staggering quote. We guessed before hand about £4,500 to £6,000. .
    The Quote. . £10,400. And the FREE heating survey was awful, hard sell, no answers to direct questions, and lots of jargon, and science, that I'm sure was supposed to sound impressive, and I wasn't supposed to understand, just be dumbly impressed.
    I asked for no silly gimmicks during the survey, but I got nothing but that.
    Because I said I had 2 quotes already, and wouldn't tell him who with, he managed to put a slur on the products and services of every company he could think of.
    I'm totally sceptical of any company that is scared to tell you the price indication of their products.
    And he tried to give me a discount, if I put the deposit down NOW. . .NO WAY. Very poor conduct of the guy on the survey. . which was actually a Sales man. . Who was more like a dodgy car sales man. . Honestly "insert name" I wouldn't lie to you. . . "insert name" I only am passionate because our product is so much superior and I believe that you need it "insert name" . . .Blah blah. He repeated my name in EVERY sentence for 2 hours. I can just imagine the sales course he went on. Worst 2 hours of my life.
    I knew I wouldn't use them 2 mins after him arriving. . Before knowing the price.
    It is a good product, but not worth the hilarious price.
    Originally posted by Kemilyb
    Always good to get real facts, prices and experiences from householder's. Thanks for your feedback KemilyB - to MSE members and visitors.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • geoffB
    • By geoffB 22nd Oct 16, 2:29 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    geoffB
    geoffb
    i'm a bit confused too, there is no pdf. and information on there website makes no such claims
    Originally posted by peacock17
    iam still trying to find a rough idea of the cost of these heaters and the installment cost no one seem to be able to answer this??
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 22nd Oct 16, 2:45 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    iam still trying to find a rough idea of the cost of these heaters and the installment cost no one seem to be able to answer this??
    Originally posted by geoffB
    You can't, that's the point. The company makes up any price they want! You have to get sales person to come out, who is trained to market them ,put pressure on you and get a sale.

    They inflate prices way beyond the material value of the heaters and then slap on fake discounts.

    As you can see above...two examples...(posts 437 and 431)..where they quote crazy prices they have been given. So, they [the company] just make them up. The prices will be different for every customer depending how how much they feel they can get out of each person.

    If you look at the link I posted above, you will see a similar range of heaters. They will be just as efficient, just as responsive but you will get a true retail value.

    Above example quoted £10,400 for 6 heaters. An average of £1485 per heater.

    The other example a customer posted £4000 for 3 heaters. An average of around £1300 per heater.

    The link I posted above, which has similar looking heaters if you look through their range. £100 - £300 per heater.

    In fact, you can get portable heaters from argos which cost £50 and have the exact same efficiency.

    So don't get drawn in. Avoid at all costs.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 22-10-2016 at 2:47 PM.
    • Nomoonatall
    • By Nomoonatall 22nd Oct 16, 2:51 PM
    • 1,111 Posts
    • 2,958 Thanks
    Nomoonatall
    To anyone thinking about buying storage heaters....don't! They are rubbish.
    Okay, they use electricity on Economy 7...which is good. If you work through the day, they'll be barely warm by the time you get home....which is rubbish.

    Think of a better option. Then tell me what you've come up with!
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 22nd Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • 6,311 Posts
    • 4,748 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    iam still trying to find a rough idea of the cost of these heaters and the installment cost no one seem to be able to answer this??
    Originally posted by geoffB
    You keep asking - but what do you think the answer might be ? Why is it that no matter how hard you look, neither you nor Google can find a publised one my friend?

    To my knowledge this forum is the only scource of facts on the costs of (1) buying, (2) installing and (3) running costs of these panel heaters. One such fully detailed and costed install quote just a # number before your post. Can I suggest you invest a little time reading this thread and you will be rewarded with the closest you will ever get to the costs of this panel heating system.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 22nd Oct 16, 8:25 PM
    • 7,378 Posts
    • 7,762 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    To anyone thinking about buying storage heaters....don't! They are rubbish.
    Okay, they use electricity on Economy 7...which is good. If you work through the day, they'll be barely warm by the time you get home....which is rubbish.

    Think of a better option. Then tell me what you've come up with!
    Originally posted by Nomoonatall
    Depends on the storage heaters and the thermal insulation of the property. Even though the heaters lose heat to the dwelling the building insulation should then keep that heat inside the house.

    Fan assisted storage heaters have much lower heat loss during the day, but they're more expensive and bulkier.

    Another option is to use E7 to heat a thermal store and then have wet radiators to withdraw the heat from the store as required.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 22nd Oct 16, 8:57 PM
    • 1,086 Posts
    • 598 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    To anyone thinking about buying storage heaters....don't! They are rubbish.
    Okay, they use electricity on Economy 7...which is good. If you work through the day, they'll be barely warm by the time you get home....which is rubbish.

    Think of a better option. Then tell me what you've come up with!
    Originally posted by Nomoonatall
    I would also point out that those so called "Storage Heaters" on the Fisher Website, may not be E7 storage heaters. All the literature seems to suggest they use standard (single rate) electricity. So in reality they are not storage heaters at all.

    As Owain points out above. Storage Heaters can be the most cost effective all electric solution.

    They get a bad press because in the past, they were often installed into unsuitable properties. They were usually undersized and installed in properties with poor or no insulation. They were especially common in poor quality council house housing stock.

    They also get a bad press because people often do not use the controls correctly (and never learn to) and just turn the dials up high hoping that makes them work better.

    In any case, storage heaters are not the point of discussion in this thread. Fisher heaters are.

    However, I am concerned that Fisher seems to be selling some of their heaters as "storage heaters" even though I am not convinced they are.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 23-10-2016 at 1:31 AM.
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