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  • FIRST POST
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 27th Sep 11, 10:30 AM
    • 6,191Posts
    • 19,122Thanks
    Doc N
    Solar energy - e.on (and other) Feed-in Tariff payment delays - your experiences?
    • #1
    • 27th Sep 11, 10:30 AM
    Solar energy - e.on (and other) Feed-in Tariff payment delays - your experiences? 27th Sep 11 at 10:30 AM
    Most people who've installed solar panels in the last 18 months or so will be claiming Feed-in tariff payments from electricity suppliers.

    Some suppliers are paying fairly quickly after the claim goes in - but some aren't. E.on, for example, used to pay within a few days but are now delaying payments for up to a month.

    Great for companies' cashflow - but not for the individuals claiming.

    Experiences with various companies shared here would be useful in helping people to decide which company to go with - and whether to switch away from companies that delay payments due.
    Last edited by Doc N; 16-07-2012 at 7:25 PM.
Page 58
    • orrery
    • By orrery 7th Jul 17, 10:28 AM
    • 514 Posts
    • 443 Thanks
    orrery
    Eon have just said they will have to change my usage not generation meter as it is old - will this impact on my PV payments in any way (disclaimer First Utility make my fit payments not EON but eon are my current supplier)

    Follow up question - if Eon fit a smart meter will this support a switch to E7 if I decide that works better financially or does this still require a different meter again?
    Originally posted by michaels
    I have switched to a smart meter and it makes no difference to me.

    However, to correct a previous post: the smart meter does measure export (at least mine does - 'Secure' branded) and I find this helpful.

    Once I had the smart meter I then requested a switch to E7 and there were long delays (as in many months) and problems as the supplier didn't know how to do it. It was eventually done, at the expense of problems with the tariff registers being reversed. I'm now with a provider that can't even connect to it, so I'm back reading manually - make sure a smart meter is fitted in a way that you can still read it manually.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TL, SolarImmersion
    Location: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch
    Nissan Leaf, TADO Central Heating control
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    I have switched to a smart meter and it makes no difference to me.

    However, to correct a previous post: the smart meter does measure export (at least mine does - 'Secure' branded) and I find this helpful.

    Once I had the smart meter I then requested a switch to E7 and there were long delays (as in many months) and problems as the supplier didn't know how to do it. It was eventually done, at the expense of problems with the tariff registers being reversed. I'm now with a provider that can't even connect to it, so I'm back reading manually - make sure a smart meter is fitted in a way that you can still read it manually.
    Originally posted by orrery
    Hello orrery and you're right. Certain smart meters we've installed over the last few years do have features that relate to exported electricity. These meters aren't, though, programmed to make use of this data. So, at the moment, the information isn't accurate. We don't yet have the software available to turn this raw data into anything meaningful in terms of electricity exported to the Grid. As it's not a true reflection, we don't currently use smart technology to record and administer exported electricity. Our smart meters are fine, though, for accurately recording imported electricity.

    Also, like all suppliers, we need to follow strict guidelines and rules. Our current smart meters aren't compliant with present industry requirements when it comes to measuring exported electricity and this is another reason why we don't currently use them for this purpose.

    Similarly with the In House Display that comes with our smart meters. Whilst these, too, have features associated with exported electricity, the information isn't accurate and shouldn't be relied on. Again, they should only be used in relation to imported electricity.

    This is the situation as far as we're concerned and it might be different for other suppliers. Also, we're developing our smart technology all the time so this could change further down the line. For the time being, our smart meters are only used for recording the amount of electricity imported from the Grid.

    Hope this explains our situation orrery.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 7th Jul 17, 6:09 PM
    • 473 Posts
    • 1,085 Thanks
    pinnks
    Malc,

    Thanks for this - you will have seen that I posted a question on another thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72806087&posted=1#post72806087 pretty much asking you and/or other industry reps to say precisely this.

    In essence the meters are only smart to the extent that they can display import and be read remotely to avoid the need to manually input that import for billing purposes. Is it also true that they can be used to disconnect your valued customers?

    In terms of export they will give a reading but it is not accurate for billing purposes, or at least not calibrated and verified as such.

    I would call that semi-smart.

    I don't plan on asking you to fit one for me any time soon and will sit happily entering my readings each month and therefore "wasting" 5 minutes a month doing that
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
    • michaels
    • By michaels 7th Jul 17, 10:53 PM
    • 19,002 Posts
    • 87,233 Thanks
    michaels
    Have to say the remote disconnection thing worries me, not because I ever anticipate being in arrears but more because of the billing horror stories (nPower but I am sure there are others) and also the risk of hacking.
    Cool heads and compromise
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters and FIT
    Malc,

    Thanks for this - you will have seen that I posted a question on another thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72806087&posted=1#post72806087 pretty much asking you and/or other industry reps to say precisely this.

    In essence the meters are only smart to the extent that they can display import and be read remotely to avoid the need to manually input that import for billing purposes. Is it also true that they can be used to disconnect your valued customers?

    In terms of export they will give a reading but it is not accurate for billing purposes, or at least not calibrated and verified as such.

    I would call that semi-smart.

    I don't plan on asking you to fit one for me any time soon and will sit happily entering my readings each month and therefore "wasting" 5 minutes a month doing that
    Originally posted by pinnks
    Hello pinnks and sorry for the late reply. I've been out of the office for a week and a half and missed your other post too.

    Glad the information I posted above was of some interest. To confirm, our smart meters are currently used to measure electricity imported from the Grid only. Totally accept, certain models have features relating to exported electricity but these aren't used for the reasons I spoke about earlier.

    I can also confirm, our smart meters aren't used to disconnect any of our customers.

    Also, having smart meters is entirely optional. Whilst we're aiming to be in a position to offer them to all our customers by 2020, whether or not this offer is taken up is down to the customer.

    Sorry again for the late reply pinnks and hope this is of interest. Let me know if you need any more details as happy to help.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Jul 17, 4:49 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 4,421 Thanks
    zeupater
    Hello pinnks and sorry for the late reply. I've been out of the office for a week and a half and missed your other post too.

    Glad the information I posted above was of some interest. To confirm, our smart meters are currently used to measure electricity imported from the Grid only. Totally accept, certain models have features relating to exported electricity but these aren't used for the reasons I spoke about earlier.

    I can also confirm, our smart meters aren't used to disconnect any of our customers.

    Also, having smart meters is entirely optional. Whilst we're aiming to be in a position to offer them to all our customers by 2020, whether or not this offer is taken up is down to the customer.

    Sorry again for the late reply pinnks and hope this is of interest. Let me know if you need any more details as happy to help.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Hi Malc

    Does this mean that the meters which you've installed to date and their associated IHDs don't comply to SMETS1 or SMETS2 standards regarding the provision of registers, or is it a case that functionality exists but simply not going to be used ?

    If the former, then the question revolves around why non-compliant meters are being installed ... if the latter, then isn't it a case that the company will not be complying with various EU legislation of 2009 & 2012 which substantially forms case for smart-metering? .... background information related to this is summarised in the following link ...

    https://vriconian.wixsite.com/site/single-post/2017/07/14/Smart-Metering---1-Introduction-Whats-it-all-about-

    There is a third possible reason, that being the DCC being later than anticipated in delivering shared communications and therefore what you describe results from not wanting to duplicate cost (and therefore waste) in developing a temporary comms network to handle export readings, in which case it's just a temporary situation ....

    Any chance of doing a little digging internally on this and provide us with a little feedback ?

    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 20-07-2017 at 7:32 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Jul 17, 4:56 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 4,421 Thanks
    zeupater
    Hi All

    Just an update on Scottish Power's normal sluggish FiT payment ...

    Readings submitted 01/07 ... Self bill invoice dated 14/07 received today (19/07) .... that's a day or two earlier than average so about another 3 years of continuous improvements at that rate and they'll be nearly as quick as E.ON ! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 19-07-2017 at 8:47 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 20th Jul 17, 8:45 AM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 3,934 Thanks
    EricMears
    Hi All

    Just an update on Scottish Power's normal sluggish FiT payment ...

    Readings submitted 01/07 ... Self bill invoice dated 14/07 received today (19/07) .... that's a day or two earlier than average so about another 3 years of continuous improvements at that rate and they'll be nearly as quick as E.ON ! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Exactly the same for me. Two weeks instead of the recent 'norm' of three is a significant improvement

    However, 4 years ago they managed a couple of payments inside a week so if they double the time taken every 4 years it could take them the whole quarter to process a payment in 12 years time
    N Derbyshire.
    4kwp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 20th Jul 17, 8:52 AM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 3,934 Thanks
    EricMears
    I can also confirm, our smart meters aren't used to disconnect any of our customers.
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Is that a promise that they can never be used thus or just a comment that E.ON haven't got round to implementing the function - Yet ?
    N Derbyshire.
    4kwp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 20th Jul 17, 3:56 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 4,421 Thanks
    zeupater
    Is that a promise that they can never be used thus or just a comment that E.ON haven't got round to implementing the function - Yet ?
    Originally posted by EricMears
    Hi Eric

    If you think about it the energy sector have embroiled themselves into a catch22 situation, see post #1146 above.

    Agree on the position on SP payments too, at the beginning of the FiT scheme everything was processed manually and payment was much quicker than it is now via an automated system, so they're just playing the delay game ... whenever I've raised this with them they just say that they're operating within the terms of the scheme as laid out by their license (maximum payment time stipulated) and our agreement, which I simply translate to "the bean counters have instructed us to improve cash-flow by slowing down the payment process" ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 20-07-2017 at 3:59 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Hi Malc

    Does this mean that the meters which you've installed to date and their associated IHDs don't comply to SMETS1 or SMETS2 standards regarding the provision of registers, or is it a case that functionality exists but simply not going to be used ?

    If the former, then the question revolves around why non-compliant meters are being installed ... if the latter, then isn't it a case that the company will not be complying with various EU legislation of 2009 & 2012 which substantially forms case for smart-metering? .... background information related to this is summarised in the following link ...

    https://vriconian.wixsite.com/site/single-post/2017/07/14/Smart-Metering---1-Introduction-Whats-it-all-about-

    There is a third possible reason, that being the DCC being later than anticipated in delivering shared communications and therefore what you describe results from not wanting to duplicate cost (and therefore waste) in developing a temporary comms network to handle export readings, in which case it's just a temporary situation ....

    Any chance of doing a little digging internally on this and provide us with a little feedback ?

    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Hello zeupater and hope I can help.

    Our smart meters comply with SMETS1 and we're looking to start installing SMETS2 later this year.

    One of the issues we've come across with smart meters is the loss of smart functionality when customers change supplier. This is temporary and to help sort the issue, all suppliers will eventually use the centralised database (DCC) you mention. The DCC will pass meter readings to the current supplier so customers can switch without losing smart capability. SMETS2 meters will help here too.

    This is mainly about imported electricity. As I mentioned in an earlier reply on this thread, certain makes of smart meter do have features relating to data about electricity exported to the Grid. These meters aren't, though, programmed to make use of this data. So, at the moment, the information isn't accurate. We don't yet have the software available to turn this raw data into anything meaningful in terms of electricity exported to the Grid. As it's not a true reflection, we don't currently use smart technology to record and administer exported electricity. Our smart meters are fine, though, for accurately recording imported electricity even where customers are generating their own power.

    We also need to follow strict guidelines and rules when looking after our FIT customers. Our current smart meters aren't compliant with present industry requirements when it comes to measuring exported electricity. This is another reason why we're not currently using them for this purpose.

    Similarly with the In House Display (IHD) that comes with our smart meters. Whilst these, too, have features associated with exported electricity, the information isn't accurate and shouldn't be relied on. Again, they should only be used in relation to imported electricity.

    This is the situation as of today but we're continually developing our smart technology so this will change further down the line as our smart programme evolves.

    Sorry to repeat some of the stuff I've posted elsewhere on this thread zeupater but hope it helps give a fuller picture of where we're currently at in terms of smart meters and exported electricity.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Is that a promise that they can never be used thus or just a comment that E.ON haven't got round to implementing the function - Yet ?
    Originally posted by EricMears
    That's the situation as it stands today Eric. This hasn't changed since we started installing smart meters. I've no knowledge of any forthcoming plans to change this.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 21st Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    • 473 Posts
    • 1,085 Thanks
    pinnks
    Hi Malc,

    This is interesting stuff, though the question Z raised is beyond my knowledge of the issue, so I'll leave him to pursue.

    When you say not accurate in terms of import I get that completely for use as an export meter for billing purposes but presumably they are as (in)accurate as any other home monitoring kit you can buy like the Owl or immerSUN or whatever.

    So, folk who do not have a device of that sort may find it useful to have a smart meter to get a broad feel for their export v import v own use etc?
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 21st Jul 17, 6:19 PM
    • 473 Posts
    • 1,085 Thanks
    pinnks
    Malc,

    Just thought of another question. What capability do your smart meters have (now or next generation) to export data to spreadsheets/databases and at what level of granularity?
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
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