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  • Ids61
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 11, 10:14 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 11, 10:14 AM
    Hi
    Very difficult, my MBNA debt was sold to a DCA, Even my SAR did not reveal an amount.
    My best guess is around 10%.
    Whatever the amount it's a fraction of the balance, there parasitic existence means they must buy cheap and collect to maximise the profit.
    • Gordon Hose
    • By Gordon Hose 9th Jul 11, 10:57 AM
    • 5,966 Posts
    • 4,024 Thanks
    Gordon Hose
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 11, 10:57 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 11, 10:57 AM
    I think it depends how much is owed and whether it's Statute Barred or not. I've heard stories that it can be 10/20p in the pound, down to 2p in the pound.
  • mr_spud
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 11, 5:22 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 11, 5:22 PM
    doesn't the debtor have a legal right to know? if yes, how does the debtor find out? if no, why not? otherwise debt collection is no better than a con.
  • the_insider
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 11, 5:44 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 11, 5:44 PM
    Why does the debtor have the right to know? They will not accept settlement at the same rate, they are entitled to collect the full, original balance but will often accept a lower amount.
  • JSF23
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 11, 6:15 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 11, 6:15 PM
    I also think DCA's buy a job lot, e.g. some good, some bad so it may not be possible.
  • bottleofred
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 11, 7:15 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 11, 7:15 PM
    doesn't the debtor have a legal right to know? if yes, how does the debtor find out? if no, why not? otherwise debt collection is no better than a con.
    Originally posted by mr_spud
    While I don't agree with the tactics used by many debt collectors as I've had to deal with them, they are in business to make money, so am unsure how you think it is a con. Don't get me wrong, I was harassed so much that I had to change my home phone number, but if I hadn't defaulted on my loans/cards then I'd have paid a lot more in interest and charges than I actually ended up doing. I really don't think you'd ever find out what they pay, but am sure it's probably 20-25%. You should try and get a decent full and final settlement figure to settle the debt and some debt collectors will allow you to pay this off if you don't have the full amount.
    If you've nothing decent to say, perhaps you shouldn't say anything.

    Saving to buy something for me 35
    2 savings jar 202
    Total credit card debts 2400 - Will I ever learn!!
    • chanz4
    • By chanz4 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    • 9,430 Posts
    • 2,691 Thanks
    chanz4
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    its like anything say trading a car in, the dealer will buy for about 2k less bet he wont tell you how much but will sell at a profit
    • fermi
    • By fermi 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    • 36,897 Posts
    • 44,436 Thanks
    fermi
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 11, 9:10 PM
    doesn't the debtor have a legal right to know? if yes, how does the debtor find out? if no, why not? otherwise debt collection is no better than a con.
    Originally posted by mr_spud
    No. The debt will be sold under a commercial agreement, the terms of which will be confidential between the buyer and the seller.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com | > New to Forum? Click for Guide <

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  • mr_spud
    its like anything say trading a car in, the dealer will buy for about 2k less bet he wont tell you how much but will sell at a profit
    Originally posted by chanz4
    except in the case of a debt, the dealer has bought something which previously had a know price (i.e. the original amount owing).
  • mr_spud
    they are in business to make money, so am unsure how you think it is a con.
    Originally posted by bottleofred
    I am unsure why I should give a stuff about the success of their business enterprise.
  • mr_spud
    Why does the debtor have the right to know?
    Originally posted by the_insider
    because the debtor's money is as good as the DCA's money. If the DCA paid the original creditor 10% for the debt, thus wiping it out as far as the original creditor is concerned, at a time when the only option being offered to the debtor was to pay 100%, plus charges, plus interest, it strikes me something hugely unscrupulous and imbalanced is going on, to the massive disadvantage of the consumer. It's plainly inequitable.
  • ihatedebtcollectors
    The only thing of any value here is the loan agreement.

    Agreement can be bought and sold as they are enforcible by a third party in a court. They are in effect a form of money.

    If you default, do not pay, the "value" of this agreement goes down (not the same as the amount owed). This agreement becomes "sub prime" and worthless.

    DCAs buy these and attempt to collect on the original amount (as this is what they are entitled to under your agreement), but you can settle for less with the DCA. Equally, they can refuse and request the original - this makes bad business sense due to having to go to court and would get a very low payment every month towards the debt.

    The system sucks, but it's no worse than people making an insurance claim on a company which is clearly fraud, however, they will pay out anyway due to this being the cheaper option in the long term.

    Best option is to set yourself up as a DCA and buy your own debt lol.
    Last edited by ihatedebtcollectors; 10-07-2011 at 11:34 AM.
  • mr_spud
    The only thing of any value here is the loan agreement.

    Agreement can be bought and sold as they are enforcible by a third party in a court. They are in effect a form of money.

    If you default, do not pay, the "value" of this agreement goes down (not the same as the amount owed). This agreement becomes "sub prime" and worthless.

    DCAs buy these and attempt to collect on the original amount (as this is what they are entitled to under your agreement), but you can settle for less with the DCA. Equally, they can refuse and request the original - this makes bad business sense due to having to go to court and would get a very low payment every month towards the debt.

    The system sucks, but it's no worse than people making an insurance claim on a company which is clearly fraud, however, they will pay out anyway due to this being the cheaper option in the long term.

    Best option is to set yourself up as a DCA and buy your own debt lol.
    Originally posted by ihatedebtcollectors
    brilliant answer, thanks. funnily enough, i hadn't quite got as far as setting myself up as a DCA and buying my own debt, but I had got as far as "why don't they rebrand themselves?". by which i mean setting themselves up as problem-solvers rather than problems? "Got a debt? we bulk buy them for 10% on YOUR behalf! give us 15% to cover our overheads, and walk into the sunset!". would be interesting to use the buying power of a commercial DCA to do the job of, say, CCCS. Why is nobody doing that?
    • chanz4
    • By chanz4 10th Jul 11, 11:05 PM
    • 9,430 Posts
    • 2,691 Thanks
    chanz4
    why should they? you become a high risk when you default
  • mr_spud
    why should they? you become a high risk when you default
    Originally posted by chanz4
    They already do. I'm suggesting, tongue-in-cheek, that they continue, but without attempting to greedily rip people off, harassing them and treating them like !!!!. I would have thought though, when attempting to extract money from people with very little of the stuff, that a lower profit margin per debt would lessen their risk? Anyway...

    There's a serious point here though, that if a DCA is able to buy a debt for 10%, why isn't the consumer?
    Last edited by mr_spud; 11-07-2011 at 7:50 AM.
  • RobertoMoir
    They already do. I'm suggesting, tongue-in-cheek, that they continue, but without attempting to greedily rip people off, harassing them and treating them like !!!!. I would have thought though, when attempting to extract money from people with very little of the stuff, that a lower profit margin per debt would lessen their risk? Anyway...

    There's a serious point here though, that if a DCA is able to buy a debt for 10%, why isn't the consumer?
    Originally posted by mr_spud
    "Able to buy" is one thing, and you're able to attempt to "buy" the debt at that price. Make them an offer.

    Having the right to force them to sell if they don't want to do business with you or at the price you are offering is something quite different.
    Former Bailiff.
    I'm here to help but I reserve the right to be blunt and to the point rather than sugar-coat my replies.


    The problem with consolidation loans is the absurd idea that "more credit" is the answer to too much credit.
  • FredWhispers
    Buying at 10% sounds great, but, arent most debts bought completely worthless? Refusals to pay due to lack of/defective agreement, absconders, people who just refuse to pay and dont own a house etc etc.

    For that reason, I guess, the DCA profit probably comes from about 20 or so debts in every 100 bought?

    People refusing to pay debts seems to be the reason we cant get decent full and finals! So why are we on their side? They cost us money!!!!!

    Fred
  • mr_spud
    "Able to buy" is one thing, and you're able to attempt to "buy" the debt at that price. Make them an offer.

    Having the right to force them to sell if they don't want to do business with you or at the price you are offering is something quite different.
    Originally posted by RobertoMoir
    i didn't "force" them to buy my debt at any price. i had nothing to do with it, to the extent i don't even know what they paid for it.

    i'm in a slightly odd position here, which is that my partner is the ex-partner of the director of a well-known dca. her/their kids, spend a lot of time in our rented house, despite having lavishly-appointed bought-outright homes of their own. i babysit their kids, whilst their dad's firm phones me up asking me to pay 100% of a debt his firm paid 10-20% for (when they're not on the 6 months per year 5-star holidays paid for from the profits made off the back of people who basically have no money). and i'm not very happy about that.

    if the debt's settled with the original creditor - they no longer care, it's gone, satisfied, whatever - for a fraction of the sum the creditor was harassing me for , then i want to know what that sum was, and why the same offer wasn't made to me. simple.
  • jadex
    i'm in a slightly odd position here
    Originally posted by mr_spud
    slightly? that's exaggeration.
    you are in extremaly odd position IMHO
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