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  • Outpost
    Cars need insurance?
  • 3v3
    Cars need insurance?
    Originally posted by Outpost
    I think you need to sit down.
    Do you have anyone who can come and sit with you? A close friend? Relative?

    I have some sad news for you; not only do they need insurance with the MOT, but also (brace yourself, this may hurt) t.a.x.

    Deep breaths! Deeeeeeeeep breaths!!!!!!!!

    (Someone call a medic!!!!!!! - Outpost is showing signs of heart failure ..... Think it's shock induced .... )
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 30th Jun 11, 11:02 PM
    • 5,052 Posts
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    Norman Castle
    If the ombudsmans ruling states that no MOT does not mean you are not insured, have drivers wrongly been convicted for driving without insurance based on the invalid terms in some insurance policies?.
    Too cool for school. Also too old for school.
  • Outpost
    I think you need to sit down.
    Originally posted by 3v3
    I am sitting down. Very few people use a computer standing up.

    Do you have anyone who can come and sit with you? A close friend? Relative?
    Originally posted by 3v3
    Nope. Just balloon animals with faces drawn on them with a Sharpie.

    I have some sad news for you; not only do they need insurance with the MOT, but also (brace yourself, this may hurt) t.a.x.
    Originally posted by 3v3
    I have insurance, an MOT and tax.

    Must get round to buying a car to go with them...
  • 3v3
    I am sitting down. Very few people use a computer standing up.


    Nope. Just balloon animals with faces drawn on them with a Sharpie.


    I have insurance, an MOT and tax.

    Must get round to buying a car to go with them...
    Originally posted by Outpost
  • Outpost


    See? This is Paul the Dragon.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 30th Jun 11, 11:53 PM
    • 8,448 Posts
    • 9,484 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    If the ombudsmans ruling states that no MOT does not mean you are not insured, have drivers wrongly been convicted for driving without insurance based on the invalid terms in some insurance policies?.
    Probably not as the terms may not be invalid or illegal.
    Just because the ombudsman has stated that no MOT doesn't mean that your insurance is invalid doesn't mean that an insurer can't have a clause in the policy stating that to have a policy with them your car must have an MOT. (if required.)

    Some insurance companies won't insure young drivers if they don't have a "spy box" fitted. Having to have this box isn't a legal requirement, simply an insurance Co requirement, but fail to have one if your policy states you must, and your policy will probably be invalidated.
    • sarahg1969
    • By sarahg1969 1st Jul 11, 12:18 AM
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    sarahg1969
    If the ombudsmans ruling states that no MOT does not mean you are not insured, have drivers wrongly been convicted for driving without insurance based on the invalid terms in some insurance policies?.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    I don't know. Does this actually happen? The insurance policy would not automatically become void for no MOT, so third party cover would still exist.

    How far do the police go when investigating these instances? Surely it's just a straight ticket (with no points) for no MOT? They don't start looking at the Ts & Cs of each policy, do they?
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 1st Jul 11, 9:19 AM
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    Norman Castle
    How far do the police go when investigating these instances? Surely it's just a straight ticket (with no points) for no MOT? They don't start looking at the Ts & Cs of each policy, do they?
    If a police officer believed your expired MOT invalidated your insurance and contacted your insurance company who then confirmed this belief by stating the T&C, it's unlikely the police officer would then accept a drivers reasoning that the ombudsman has over-ruled this condition. This would result in a driver either being prosecuted for driving uninsured or having to prove their insurance is valid which would not be simple.

    Are the police aware of the ombudsmans ruling?, and has the ombudsmans ruling stopped these unfair terms being shown in insurance policies?
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 01-07-2011 at 9:57 AM.
    Too cool for school. Also too old for school.
  • mikey72
    Probably not as the terms may not be invalid or illegal.
    Just because the ombudsman has stated that no MOT doesn't mean that your insurance is invalid doesn't mean that an insurer can't have a clause in the policy stating that to have a policy with them your car must have an MOT. (if required.)

    Some insurance companies won't insure young drivers if they don't have a "spy box" fitted. Having to have this box isn't a legal requirement, simply an insurance Co requirement, but fail to have one if your policy states you must, and your policy will probably be invalidated.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    But if you take the box off, or exceed the miles, or drive out of time and don't pay, you still have third party liability, whatever it says in the t&c's. The insurer may try to recover it off you later, but they'll still have to pay out.
  • scheming_gypsy
    If an police officer believed your expired MOT invalidated your insurance and contacted your insurance company who then confirmed this belief by stating the T&C, it's unlikely the police officer would then accept a drivers reasoning that the ombudsman has over-ruled this condition. This would result in a driver either being prosecuted for driving uninsured or having to prove their insurance is valid which would not be simple.

    Are the police aware of the ombudsmans ruling?, and has the ombudsmans ruling stopped these unfair terms being shown in insurance policies?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle

    but that doesn't mean the insurance is void.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 1st Jul 11, 10:00 AM
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    Norman Castle
    but that doesn't mean the insurance is void
    Yes, we know that.

    The question is "Are the police aware of the ombudsmans ruling?, and has the ombudsmans ruling stopped these unfair terms being shown in insurance policies?"
    Too cool for school. Also too old for school.
    • pitkin2020
    • By pitkin2020 1st Jul 11, 10:35 AM
    • 3,867 Posts
    • 2,994 Thanks
    pitkin2020
    But if you take the box off, or exceed the miles, or drive out of time and don't pay, you still have third party liability, whatever it says in the t&c's. The insurer may try to recover it off you later, but they'll still have to pay out.
    Originally posted by mikey72
    If you don't pay they are likely to cancel the contract so you won't be covered as you will have no insurance!!
    Everyones opinion is the most important.....no wonder nothing is ever agreed on.
    • sarahg1969
    • By sarahg1969 1st Jul 11, 10:35 AM
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    sarahg1969
    It's not the ombudsman's ruling that makes the policy not void. The ombudsman's ruling relates to the payment of own damage.

    Lack of MOT would not automatically void the policy. The insurers may try to avoid paying out any own damage claims, but the third party cover would still be in force, quite aside from anything the ombudsman says.

    I wonder if there are any cases where someone has been found guilty of having no insurance, purely because their MOT certificate has expired?

    Section 148 (2)(b) Road Traffic Act 1988:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

    If there is a policy in force, an insurer cannot refuse to deal with third party claims simply because of the lack of a valid MOT certificate. Ergo, a vehicle without MOT is still insured, and a charge of no insurance must fail. This does not mean, of course, that the police, CPS or Magistrates would necessarily understand, but an appeal on conviction should be successful.
    Last edited by sarahg1969; 01-07-2011 at 10:50 AM.
    • thenudeone
    • By thenudeone 1st Jul 11, 1:35 PM
    • 4,400 Posts
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    thenudeone
    If you don't pay they are likely to cancel the contract so you won't be covered as you will have no insurance!!
    Originally posted by pitkin2020
    Yes but they have to give you notice before cancellation takes effect. (unless they issue certificates on a month by month basis like Budget does (or used to))
    We need the earth for food, water, and shelter.
    The earth needs us for nothing.
    The earth does not belong to us.
    We belong to the Earth
    • thenudeone
    • By thenudeone 1st Jul 11, 1:42 PM
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    thenudeone
    This sort of question reminds me that people have forgotten what insurance is for. It is to cover your liability in the event that you are liable for damage or injury to others. So in order to "cover you", the driver must be at fault. It doesn't matter what that fault is - driving carelessly, driving while drunk, or over the speed limit, with an unroadworthy vehicle; or whether there are other legal issues that are unrelated to blame, such as if their licence has expired - the insurer still has to cover you.
    Insurers can try to limit their cover for damage to the insured's vehicle (although some of these exclusions may be found to be unfair), but not third parties.
    We need the earth for food, water, and shelter.
    The earth needs us for nothing.
    The earth does not belong to us.
    We belong to the Earth
  • creeping_jesus
    I cant find any exclusions due to lack of MOT. Exclusions that do void the insurance include driving on the Nurburgring, or the car being affected by radiation!
    Originally posted by jim22
    Sorry, saw this and had to laugh. Radiation eh, better not drive to chenobyl then...
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 1st Jul 11, 4:29 PM
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    Norman Castle
    So, the question, If your cars mot has run out, is your insurance void?, only relates to claiming for your own losses from your own insurer. Third party losses have never been in doubt. If so, driving without an MOT has never meant you are driving while uninsured but that a section of your policy may be void and that your own losses may not be covered by your policy and it is this that the ombudsman has ruled as unfair. Is this correct?
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 01-07-2011 at 4:32 PM.
    Too cool for school. Also too old for school.
    • sarahg1969
    • By sarahg1969 1st Jul 11, 4:50 PM
    • 6,432 Posts
    • 10,822 Thanks
    sarahg1969
    So, the question, If your cars mot has run out, is your insurance void?, only relates to claiming for your own losses from your own insurer. Third party losses have never been in doubt. If so, driving without an MOT has never meant you are driving while uninsured but that a section of your policy may be void and that your own losses may not be covered by your policy and it is this that the ombudsman has ruled as unfair. Is this correct?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    Yes - except that nothing would be "void", as such.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 1st Jul 11, 6:04 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    i think the only way no MOT affects insurance is if at the time your MOT ran out and you didnt have it done and continued to drive it someone hit you or you hit someone the pay out you recieve for the insurance in the event of a write off would mean a lesser offer because of lack of MOT.
    I make spelling mistakes, its not intentional, its a condition I have please afford people who have these conditions some respect and not single out their posts for correcting mistakes.
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