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Income Support, DLA(PIP) & Atos - Story, Advice & Information
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# 1
jayboi2005
Old 15-06-2011, 10:10 PM
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Lightbulb Income Support, DLA(PIP) & Atos - Story, Advice & Information

Well has sparked me to post was reading the horror stories of Atos and how useless it seems the process can be. I just felt i had to say that my DLA was at the risk of being withdrawn early this year, and i was sent to Atos for a medical. I was seen by a qualified doctor which makes me feel lucky after reading some of the different types of HCP Atos feel appropriate to use.

The doctor i seen was caring, understanding and empathetic. She did not set out to trick me or write me off nor was she my friend! However i was allowed a decision of DLA based on her report. I just felt i had to post after reading all the bad it ha to be known its not always the case.


I have sever Aspergers syndrome, Bipolar, Generalize Anxiety and im also Partially sighted. I receive Income Support on top of my DLA. Im under a very specialist team called the Early Intervention team which only a few of you may know about. They consist of a specialist Physc and Mental Health Nurses who keep in close contact.

Im now getting concerned as im aware Income Support is going and i ill be put onto ESA. Will i have to undergo another Atos medical? Will i have to complete a questionnaire? Its all so confusing.

Does my DLA decision of indefinitely matter now its being replaced with PIP?
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# 2
rogerblack
Old 15-06-2011, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jayboi2005 View Post
Well has sparked me to post was reading the horror stories of Atos and how useless it seems the process can be.<snip

The doctor i seen was caring, understanding and empathetic.
Mine too.
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Originally Posted by jayboi2005 View Post
Im now getting concerned as im aware Income Support is going and i ill be put onto ESA. Will i have to undergo another Atos medical? Will i have to complete a questionnaire? Its all so confusing.

Does my DLA decision of indefinitely matter now its being replaced with PIP?
If they can decide that you qualify for ESA, looking at your paperwork - there is no requirement for them to send you a form to fill in, or to send you for a medical.

How well this process is done, and if they actually do this for any but the most obvious cases is another question.
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# 3
wottonby
Old 16-06-2011, 12:03 AM
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jayboi2005;44490680
The doctor i seen was caring, understanding and empathetic. She did not set out to trick me or write me off nor was she my friend! However i was allowed a decision of DLA based on her report. I just felt i had to post after reading all the bad it ha to be known its not always the case.





Well all I can say is that you were one of the very lucky ones.
Let me just quote a sentence out of an ATOS report of mine that was completed by a doctor in respect of a claim:

"I am not aware of Lithium being used to treat mental illness....He claims that he became ill **** but it was not until 4 months later that he saw a Psychiatrist! In my opinion, this man is not suffering from a mental illness and consequently there is no basis for the claim."

Now anybody that is anybody knows what Lithium is prescribed for - mental illness. The drug (one of many) was prescribed by the Psychiatrist. And it took 4 months from when I asked for help at my GP's to getting to see the Psychiatrist.

Obviously I was denied the benefit. With a report like that, there was never going to be any hope of a claim being submitted again and it being successful. That report goes back to 2004!!!

Ironically within the next 6 months I had been sectioned twice! No I have never had a mental illness nor do I have one now. Yet I've been dragged back into the CMHT today for further assessment.

Doctors!
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# 4
StinkerPinker
Old 16-06-2011, 3:20 AM
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I find it difficult to believe any doctor would admit to not being aware lithium was used to treat mental illness. If the HCP really WAS a doctor and put that in writing, I would think you would have a case against him/her for incompetence. Next stop the GMC fitness-to-practice committee!
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# 5
wottonby
Old 16-06-2011, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by StinkerPinker View Post
I find it difficult to believe any doctor would admit to not being aware lithium was used to treat mental illness. If the HCP really WAS a doctor and put that in writing, I would think you would have a case against him/her for incompetence. Next stop the GMC fitness-to-practice committee!
Thank you. I know! That was one of many drugs that I was on. If he was a doctor? I presume that I can't actually disclose his full name on here, but yes I am now looking at the report - it is a 6 page BI118A form (for the IIDB claim), which seems to be the form that the doctor filled in for me at an assessment and then had me sign it at the bottom to say that what he had written was the truth. (I wouldn't have known what he had put on the form before I signed it, it was pushed in front of me and told to sign here) On page 1 he has written that I said that I was on Amitryptyline 50mg 4 times a day + Lithium 800mg a day amongst other things.

On Page 6, part 9 he has written his report and at the bottom he has signed it as Dr J Cha***n. He was at the Canterbury Medical Centre.

That report is still held in my files and will be used against me again if ever I submit another claim. Why? because I signed the document without being given the time to read it and not being able to take in what it actually said.

This was 9 years ago, and in all that time I have not made any re-application. Reporting him - a bit late now I think.
I never appealed against that decision or the contents of the report because of the above in that I couldn't very well call myself a liar after I had certified that the report was true!
This is also true in that I did not renew my DLA entitlement either because of this report and haven't claimed that benefit either since.

Oh by the way the previous two assessments for IIDB were fine and awarded me the full benefit at 80% disabled as well as being awarded HRC & LRM for DLA! All benefit payments ceased after this report was compliled.

This problem over this report is the reason why I have posted a thread about information on exactly what can the DWP use (report wise) for one benefit against a claim for another including ESA.

Last edited by wottonby; 16-06-2011 at 11:21 AM.
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# 6
wild666
Old 16-06-2011, 4:28 PM
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If they can try and use a report against you then you can also contest that report as not being fit for purpose, if they bring it into the open as a previous report, even if they don't name that report, then you are legally entitled to question the validity of any report that isn't in your favour no matter how old the report is
Someone please tell me what money is
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# 7
wottonby
Old 16-06-2011, 4:47 PM
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If they can try and use a report against you then you can also contest that report as not being fit for purpose, if they bring it into the open as a previous report, even if they don't name that report, then you are legally entitled to question the validity of any report that isn't in your favour no matter how old the report is
Yes I agree. But when that report bears my signature that I was told to sign by the assessor (ATOS) as being a correct and truthful account of what I had said, including his comments and that I accepted them, I think I would be hard pushed to now say that I felt coerced into agreeing the contents of the report by signing it.

I don't know about other benefits, but the the way the IIDB assessment is done is that the claimant is required at the bottom of page 1 to confirm the accuracy of the report, before it goes to the decision maker. Have a look at the form yourself (BI 118A) and you will see what I mean. It leaves no room to argue if the report is flawed or not - I confirmed that it wasn't at the end of the assessment process.

This is very similar to being asked to sign the ESA assessment as being truthful, factual and honest. Then trying to argue why you had been found fit for work.

Last edited by wottonby; 16-06-2011 at 6:21 PM.
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# 8
formaldehyde_perfume
Old 16-06-2011, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wottonby View Post
This is very similar to being asked to sign the ESA assessment as being truthful, factual and honest. Then trying to argue why you had been found fit for work.
I went for an ESA medical and wasn't asked to sign anything on the day. The only thing I signed was my ESA50 which was written by me, in my own time, months before ever having any contact with ATOS.

... And yes, my ATOS experience was a poor one too, but I wasn't asked to sign anything. In fact, everything is now noted on a computer system.
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# 9
wottonby
Old 16-06-2011, 8:20 PM
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I went for an ESA medical and wasn't asked to sign anything on the day. The only thing I signed was my ESA50 which was written by me, in my own time, months before ever having any contact with ATOS.

... And yes, my ATOS experience was a poor one too, but I wasn't asked to sign anything. In fact, everything is now noted on a computer system.
Likewise with my ESA50! But for some unknown reason when you apply for IIDB and when you have your medical, the assessor writes down (or should) (on form BI118a) your explanation word for word, of how the accident happened, what injury you sustained, medication taken and medical opinions given. The assessor then continues to fill out the form and writes his opinion on the back page (page 6). You are then handed the completed 6 page form and told that you must sign and date it to demonstrate that the contents are a true and accurate assessment of the condition/illness/disability. He assures you that he has put everything down as you have said it and that there is nothing untoward in it, other than what has been discussed.

Sitting there you either take the form, read through 6 pages of notes/opinions etc before signing it (that's if you are fit enough!), or like me, sign the thing trusting that the assessor has been honest with you.

The only time you get to really digest the report is when (and if) you ask for a copy of it after you have failed the ATOS assessment.

Bit late then to find out that what has been put in the report is not exactly what you thought had been written. You can't very well argue that the signature isn't yours - you are stuffed!!!

Is this going to be the way forward with ALL assessments, for ALL benefits to be carried out by ATOS in the future?
It will certainly cut down the number of possible appeals!!

Or maybe we should refuse to sign until we have had the chance to read the document fully? Can't see that being acceptable to either ATOS or the DWP. Claimants taking away the medical assessment and possibly not returning it or arguing the toss about some of the contents before they sign it.

I can't see a copy of the BI118a on the internet and don't know how to show my copy of it on here - sorry.

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# 10
formaldehyde_perfume
Old 16-06-2011, 9:10 PM
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Or maybe we should refuse to sign until we have had the chance to read the document fully? Can't see that being acceptable to either ATOS or the DWP. Claimants taking away the medical assessment and possibly not returning it or arguing the toss about some of the contents before they sign it.
In the bit I quoted, you implied that a signature was required at the ATOS medical for ESA, I was saying this is not the case.

However, in reference to the piece I have quoted here, this is one of the 'lucky' parts of being dyslexic, people are far more willing to give you time and or a copy of something if I explain myself. In that situation I would have said ' I am dyslexic. I need to either be given 3-4 hours to read this information back myself, or have half an hour with someone I trust to read it back to me so that I know exactly what has been written. Then, if everything is satisfactory, I will sign it' That is the only way my signature goes on anything.

Looking back it is easy to see your mistakes, but I have learnt that people think, because you are disabled, you are a push over so through experience I have found that I need to be firm with my tone of voice and not to be fobbed off. I still make mistakes (for instance, not getting the name of the idiot that told me I wasn't elidgable for an adapted property because I wasn't over 55) but even for things like consultant appointments, if I don't know what is going on or I am not happy with the person then I am quite willing to make a nuisance of myself until I understand or until I am dealt with respectfully.
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# 11
wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 12:04 AM
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In the bit I quoted, you implied that a signature was required at the ATOS medical for ESA, I was saying this is not the case.

However, in reference to the piece I have quoted here, this is one of the 'lucky' parts of being dyslexic, people are far more willing to give you time and or a copy of something if I explain myself. In that situation I would have said ' I am dyslexic. I need to either be given 3-4 hours to read this information back myself, or have half an hour with someone I trust to read it back to me so that I know exactly what has been written. Then, if everything is satisfactory, I will sign it' That is the only way my signature goes on anything.

Looking back it is easy to see your mistakes, but I have learnt that people think, because you are disabled, you are a push over so through experience I have found that I need to be firm with my tone of voice and not to be fobbed off. I still make mistakes (for instance, not getting the name of the idiot that told me I wasn't elidgable for an adapted property because I wasn't over 55) but even for things like consultant appointments, if I don't know what is going on or I am not happy with the person then I am quite willing to make a nuisance of myself until I understand or until I am dealt with respectfully.
Thank you for that and I am sorry that I confused the issue over ESA.

Maybe then that when anybody claims IIDB they should mutter 'Dyslexic'!

What I can say and I stand to be corrected by someone that actually works for the DWP on here, is that you would not be allowed to remove the report as it stands at the moment and that you WILL sign the document there and then as that is one of the conditions of the claiming procedure.
Whether there has ever been a case where a claimant has refused to sign unless he is given access to independent advice I don't know. All I know is that I was placed under great pressure to comply by ATOS (the assessor) at a time when I was nervous as it was and in pain which meant that I just wanted to get out of there.

What I do know and can say, is that this report was used in my last DLA claim against me, which was more or less at the same time. That, as I have already said, was over 8 years ago. 8 years of not being able to believe that I would have hada good chance of recovering my lost DLA & IIDB! 8 years of lost benefit payments!
Even now I am shi**ng myself over whether I should make a new claim for both benefits.

It's not fair, it's not right that people are being forced into signing these types of documents to secure a claim and then find that they are used against you for years to come.
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# 12
wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 12:06 AM
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Lets play trumps shell me?

I have autistic spectrum disorder, Bipolar 2, ADHA, Learning disability, eg.... I'm with the community learning disability team. Been sectioned four time in LD hospitals. Receive all the relevant benefits. I win! But am so worried about this PIP suggestion.
And in my opinion you have every reason to be worried over this new PIP system and annual/regular assessments to check on your needs. Even if it is only the forms that you will have to complete.

By the way, you win that hand!!LOL.

But to be honest I am not that far behind you and I don't get any benefits except ESA Support Group!! Did have HRC & LRM and 80% IIDB up until 8 + years ago. That is until I signed a seriously flawed medical report carried out by ATOS - (the doctor even wrote that he had never heard that Lithium was used for the treatment of Mental health issues!!!)

WTF is it given out for then - ingrowing toenails??

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# 13
cit_k
Old 17-06-2011, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wottonby View Post
Likewise with my ESA50! But for some unknown reason when you apply for IIDB and when you have your medical, the assessor writes down (or should) (on form BI118a) your explanation word for word, of how the accident happened, what injury you sustained, medication taken and medical opinions given. The assessor then continues to fill out the form and writes his opinion on the back page (page 6). You are then handed the completed 6 page form and told that you must sign and date it to demonstrate that the contents are a true and accurate assessment of the condition/illness/disability. He assures you that he has put everything down as you have said it and that there is nothing untoward in it, other than what has been discussed.

Sitting there you either take the form, read through 6 pages of notes/opinions etc before signing it (that's if you are fit enough!), or like me, sign the thing trusting that the assessor has been honest with you.

The only time you get to really digest the report is when (and if) you ask for a copy of it after you have failed the ATOS assessment.

Bit late then to find out that what has been put in the report is not exactly what you thought had been written. You can't very well argue that the signature isn't yours - you are stuffed!!!

Is this going to be the way forward with ALL assessments, for ALL benefits to be carried out by ATOS in the future?
It will certainly cut down the number of possible appeals!!

Or maybe we should refuse to sign until we have had the chance to read the document fully? Can't see that being acceptable to either ATOS or the DWP. Claimants taking away the medical assessment and possibly not returning it or arguing the toss about some of the contents before they sign it.

I can't see a copy of the BI118a on the internet and don't know how to show my copy of it on here - sorry.

As ATOS almost 100 percent certainly in that situation will not let you have a copy of the report to take away and digest in your own time, and again will almost certainly pressure you if you say you want to sit there and spend ages reading it, I think you have grounds for a complaint against the doctor to the GMC.

No doctor should make you feel pressured to sign, and I can confirm ATOS does put people under pressure to sign documents.

At least, they certainly have with me before.
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# 14
wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 1:23 PM
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As ATOS almost 100 percent certainly in that situation will not let you have a copy of the report to take away and digest in your own time, and again will almost certainly pressure you if you say you want to sit there and spend ages reading it, I think you have grounds for a complaint against the doctor to the GMC.

No doctor should make you feel pressured to sign, and I can confirm ATOS does put people under pressure to sign documents.

At least, they certainly have with me before.
Oh, so I am not alone then.

As for signing these wretched reports, what was yours for. As you know the one I am referring to was Industrial Injury Disablement Benefit. Do they do this now with other benefits as well?
People just don't seem to believe that the assessor does put pressure on you to sign the reports to confirm that what they have written is true and complete.

Then that report is used to refuse another benefit (DLA in my case)
There doesn't seem to be a way out of this. I'm not at all happy having to sign something that I haven't got the time to read thoroughly, but that is how it is now. A very clever way of using it against you.

How can you appeal against a report that some months earlier I signed as being correct at the time. Then trying to tell a Tribunal that you didn't read it because you were told that there is no need to!

It is far too late now to complain or appeal - this all happened in 2004 ish.

But the report still stands as evidence albeit a bit outdated and will certainly be used by another assessor if and when I try to claim anything in the future.

"oh I see you had mental health problems before 2004, then you became much better. Then you are saying that nothing improved at all and that you are no better now than you were in 2000?
Could you please then explain why the report in front of me says otherwise and that you agreed in 2004 that there was little wrong with you?"

"Umm, the doctor put pressure on me and made me sign that form!"

"And there are 15 yellow pigs flying over Eastbourne right now?"
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# 15
wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 2:07 PM
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Have you been sectioned since 2004? Some people get better from mental illness but some people don't. If you can prove that you mental health has deteriorated since that report in 2004 you could reapply for DLA and have actual proof of disability and start a fresh claim based on your symptoms now. You say you take Lithium? I guess you have bipolar? If I stop taking my meds my thoughts become rapid, my speech fast, eg. I become poorly, I get sectioned. Do you get my daft?
Thanks

Yes once a few months after the decision and another in early 2005.

Yes I know I could reapply now, I could have reaplied at any time after 2004, but my condition is not any worse than it was in 2004, and it is no different than it was in 2000 when I was in receipt of DLA - HRC & LRM! It is the same as it was in 2004.

That is my problem. being that there is no difference, and yet I lost all of my DLA because of that report I signed a few months earlier for another benefit, on what grounds do I have to make another DLA claim?

They would just say that as there is no difference now than there was in 2004, AND in 2004 a DWP doctor stated in a report for another benefit that I DID NOT have any mental health issues which I was 'forced' to sign as being correct, then how can I now be saying that I do have issues?

Either way it is going to make me look stupid if I end up trying to argue that what I signed for in 2004 as being correct was actually not correct! If that was the case - why did I sign it?

BP is one of the issues amongst many others for which I take Lithium and many other drugs. I was actually taking the same level of Lithium at the time of the assessment in 2004, for which the doctor said he had never heard of people taking Lithium for a mental illness!!

Last edited by wottonby; 17-06-2011 at 2:10 PM.
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# 16
wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 2:37 PM
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Wottonby, I would of fought tooth and nail if they stopped my DLA, I would of been more then vocal saying I signed the form under duress at the time not fully understanding what I was signing. From 2004 to now you're lost around 29 grand in payments. I would be furious at that. Why didn't you challenge it? Do you have any support of social services?
I was ill, and not able to deal with anything at the time.

I didn't even care to be honest, I just didn't have the fight in me.

It was not until recently that I found out the reasons why I lost the DLA and the 80% IIDB. By which time it was far too late to do anything about it.

29,000?? More like 54,600!!!!

DLA + IIDB + ICA


I have to accept what happened. Trying to resolve it now is almost as impossible with this damn report still floating around. I only found out last week that the 2004 is still valid when I got a copy of it from the DWP!!

Yes I used to have a social worker - about as much use as a .......!!
With the cuts and everything that has now gone. I do have one at the CMHT, but she is so overworked it is impossible to get hold of her.

No, to be honest I'm on my ownsome with this one!

My CPN & OT has tried to get into contact with various agencies and charities but they are also too busy to take on my particular case.

It's a warning to everyone - NEVER be BULLIED by the DWP/ATOS into signing ANY medical report if you don't want to!!!!
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cit_k
Old 17-06-2011, 2:47 PM
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Oh, so I am not alone then.

As for signing these wretched reports, what was yours for. As you know the one I am referring to was Industrial Injury Disablement Benefit. Do they do this now with other benefits as well?
People just don't seem to believe that the assessor does put pressure on you to sign the reports to confirm that what they have written is true and complete.

Then that report is used to refuse another benefit (DLA in my case)
There doesn't seem to be a way out of this. I'm not at all happy having to sign something that I haven't got the time to read thoroughly, but that is how it is now. A very clever way of using it against you.

How can you appeal against a report that some months earlier I signed as being correct at the time. Then trying to tell a Tribunal that you didn't read it because you were told that there is no need to!

It is far too late now to complain or appeal - this all happened in 2004 ish.

But the report still stands as evidence albeit a bit outdated and will certainly be used by another assessor if and when I try to claim anything in the future.

"oh I see you had mental health problems before 2004, then you became much better. Then you are saying that nothing improved at all and that you are no better now than you were in 2000?
Could you please then explain why the report in front of me says otherwise and that you agreed in 2004 that there was little wrong with you?"

"Umm, the doctor put pressure on me and made me sign that form!"

"And there are 15 yellow pigs flying over Eastbourne right now?"

The form they basically forced me to sign was a form stating I would not use the recording of the assessment for anything other than benefit entitlement purposes. It restricted me from using it for the media, youtube, or as I even asked complaining to the GMC!

They said I "had to" sign it....

That was for ESA.

They are meant to offer you a copy of the report for ALL assessments for benefit entitlement purposes or insurance related purposes (I have checked with the GMC this does include IB and ESA medicals) so you can check it for errors before it is sent to the DWP.

They do not do this for ESA or IB, and as such are in breach of GMC rules.
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wottonby
Old 17-06-2011, 5:00 PM
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The form they basically forced me to sign was a form stating I would not use the recording of the assessment for anything other than benefit entitlement purposes. It restricted me from using it for the media, youtube, or as I even asked complaining to the GMC!

They said I "had to" sign it....

That was for ESA.

They are meant to offer you a copy of the report for ALL assessments for benefit entitlement purposes or insurance related purposes (I have checked with the GMC this does include IB and ESA medicals) so you can check it for errors before it is sent to the DWP.

They do not do this for ESA or IB, and as such are in breach of GMC rules.
The more I hear and the more I read on here is making me realise just how underhand, dishonest and deceitful the DWP are together with their Medical Services (ATOS). Would they stop at nothing in order to ensure that people do not get their due entitlement?

It seems that they put up obstacles to refuse any claim if there is the slightest possibility that they can get away with it.

I feel like I have an axe hovering above my head all of the time, knowing that all those years ago I made a mistake in signing something without reading it.
Then there is you that cannot make public anything that they do with you! I thought that we were living in a free country, a place where care, understanding, consideration and empathy is given to those that are least able to look after themselves.

Instead I find a system that is geared to cause the maximum amount of distress.

I feel like swearing but I know it will be banned on here, but honestly where the f**k do we go to get the help we need without being made to feel 3rd class citizens that are looking for a free ride.

I'm shafted from making any further disability claims and have been for over 7 years, knowing what the result will be and knowing what the DWP will use against me.

You are shafted from speaking out about the injustice that you have endured.

How much more are we supposed to take.

Back to the original topic of this thread, new benefits in name only to make it more difficult to claim, the poorest in this society that are made to feel awful for daring to claim and a corrupt government department that is set up to make it as difficult as it can to make a genuine, yes I mean genuine, claim and know that it will be considered without reference to past reports, comments and failures.

Where am I getting some of these ideas and comments from? The Social Workers and CPN's at my local hospital that look after the most needy of society. If that is what they believe, what chance the rest of us?

GGGRRRR!!! No wonder that the DWP have done away with open offices where you could go to discuss your claims etc.They are too frightened to discuss matters face to face with irate and distressed members of the public.

Last edited by wottonby; 17-06-2011 at 5:03 PM.
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# 19
Savvy_Sue
Old 20-06-2011, 12:05 AM
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I could be wrong, but I thought DLA claims were based on how you were NOW, based on the information on your forms NOW. I'm just wondering therefore if it wouldn't be worth wottonby re-applying, with help from Welfare Rights or similar, and whether any reference would be made to the previous reports?

And I'm also wondering what they could do about it if, faced with this "sign here" pressure, you wrote "Signed under duress without having been given time to read this" before signing. Or, at the very least "I have not been give sufficient time to read this report, but have been required to sign. I reserve the right to challenge any inaccuracies I find once I receive a copy."

Just thoughts ...
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# 20
wottonby
Old 20-06-2011, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvy_Sue View Post
I could be wrong, but I thought DLA claims were based on how you were NOW, based on the information on your forms NOW. I'm just wondering therefore if it wouldn't be worth wottonby re-applying, with help from Welfare Rights or similar, and whether any reference would be made to the previous reports?

Yes that is how it should be. Unfortunately, I am claiming because of the needs I have resulting from the same condition I had when that report was signed by me in 2004.
So the DWP see it that that report is very relevant even though it is 7 years old!
They even had a copy of it in my ESA appeal pack that went to the Tribunal last year.

And I'm also wondering what they could do about it if, faced with this "sign here" pressure, you wrote "Signed under duress without having been given time to read this" before signing. Or, at the very least "I have not been give sufficient time to read this report, but have been required to sign. I reserve the right to challenge any inaccuracies I find once I receive a copy."

I entirely agree, but I don't think that doing that would be allowed. I will of course bear it in mind if I do put in a claim for IIDB again as it is a requirement of the medical assessment carried out by ATOS that the report must be signed by me before it goes to the DWP decision maker. If you have access to any DWP forms - the form number is BI 118 (a).

Just thoughts ...
To save my time in filling out these forms and finding that they are blocked by this old report, it would be good to know if the DWP are actually allowed to use a 7 year old report for a claim made for the same condition in 2011. If they are allowed, then I will not waste my time filling them out (IIDB & DLA).
Any ideas?
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