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  • FIRST POST
    jlsmith
    Meteor / Southeastern Parking
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 11, 1:13 PM
    Meteor / Southeastern Parking 11th Jun 11 at 1:13 PM
    Hi,

    Apologies if this has been dealt with on other messages but I have just joined and wish to put a summary of my case and ask for advice.

    I have three parking 'tickets' (I know, I know) to deal with. All have been issued by Meteor Parking Services who operate for Southeastern Railway carparks.

    Ticket 1 - Issued as notice of 'breach of terms and conditions'. I over-ran on this one, did not appeal by the deadline, finally appealed (along with the other 2) and offered £20 as a remedy against lost income. This was refused, escalated and I am now being asked for £165 or a threat of a summons to magistrates court.

    Ticket 2 - I never received this one, so when I got my first letter demanding £90 I wrote back advising that I had not received anything. I got a response from Meteor saying my appeal was too late (not within 7 days - but of course it's difficult to appeal if you don't know the ticket was issued!) and declining to cancel. Again I am now being asked for £165 or magistrates court.

    Ticket 3 - issued as a 'breach of terms and conditions' for failing to display a ticket. I paid and displayed this ticket, so can only assume this was an error. I should have appealed in the meantime but left it too late, though did write to Meteor enclosing my proof of purchase for the weekly ticket. Declined, now I am being asked for £165 or magistrates court.

    I did also ask Meteor to clarify how they thought this was operating under S14 of Railway Byelaws as iro of Ticket 1 & 3 I only had a notice of 'breach of terms and conditions'. I asked when they thought they had issued something complying with S14. They chose not to answer this question.

    My letter threatening me with magistrates court suggests that they have not had any communication from me, so I can only assume the fact of my appeal letter has not filtered through to the heavies who write the letters.

    I'm happy to provide any further information if required. What are people's thoughts on this? I had understood that cases of magistrates courts are rare but if so I appear to be one of the rare cases!

    Thanks,
Page 1
    • Livingthedream
    • By Livingthedream 11th Jun 11, 1:47 PM
    • 2,530 Posts
    • 3,489 Thanks
    Livingthedream
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 11, 1:47 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 11, 1:47 PM
    I posted this on another thread a day or 2 ago;

    Quote "Genuine byelaw tickets are quite rare, as it's easy and more profitable for the Train company to get a private parking company to issue a ticket then chase you up for payment.

    If it's not a genuine byelaw ticket and it's a PPC ticket then follow the advice of the regulars on this part of the forum, ie ignore.

    Is it possible for you to upload a scan of your ticket and letters, but blank out any personnel details.

    My advice send this member 'Stigy' a PM he's very good with railway bylaws and should be able to help, if he hasn't answer this thread by then."

    Follow the instructions in this thread on how to upload pictures, if your unsure on how to do that.
    Whoa! This image violates our terms of use and has been removed from view
  • SodG24
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 11, 2:12 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 11, 2:12 PM
    Would it be Brighton Station car park by chance ? If so ignore.
  • jlsmith
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 11, 2:41 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 11, 2:41 PM
    Hildenborough

    I will upload some photos shortly of correspondance
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 11th Jun 11, 3:53 PM
    • 23,299 Posts
    • 28,395 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 11, 3:53 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 11, 3:53 PM
    Had it been a real ticket you would have had the ticket with the advice, pay up or its maggi court for you. The fact that you have had the threatograms tells me its one to ignore. The price does not go up with w real one until the magistrate convicts you.
    Millies due back at Christmas.
    • Stigy
    • By Stigy 11th Jun 11, 5:48 PM
    • 1,466 Posts
    • 603 Thanks
    Stigy
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 11, 5:48 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 11, 5:48 PM
    Sounds like Meteor are trying their luck and using the Mags Court as a threat. For a breach of T&C it would go to County Court anyway.
  • jlsmith
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:05 PM
    Links to notices
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:05 PM
    As a new user I am not allowed to post links. Not very helpful!


    s1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/jlsmith10/Meteor/

    Let's see if the above works
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 11th Jun 11, 6:09 PM
    • 4,630 Posts
    • 6,097 Thanks
    esmerobbo
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:09 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:09 PM
    Tis here

    http://s1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/jlsmith10/Meteor/
  • vax2002
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:14 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 11, 6:14 PM
    These look like and smell like private tickets to me.
    • TwistedPsycho
    • By TwistedPsycho 11th Jun 11, 6:20 PM
    • 779 Posts
    • 1,016 Thanks
    TwistedPsycho
    I disagree.
    It smells like the rail companies are putting pressure on contractors for results.

    I would suggest that both the current rail parking threads should go to pepipoo, because they are clamping down on rail staff at the moment as well in my area (which I know about as I work across multiple railway locations)
    Signaller, author, father, carer.
    • Livingthedream
    • By Livingthedream 11th Jun 11, 6:49 PM
    • 2,530 Posts
    • 3,489 Thanks
    Livingthedream
    I disagree.
    It smells like the rail companies are putting pressure on contractors for results.
    Originally posted by TwistedPsycho
    The only thing I'd like to add, is that the railways have the full weight of the bylaws behind them, they don't need to bother sending multiple threatening letters, they normally send one, you ignore it, the next is a court summons.

    Could be that the Train Company (East Coast) has authorised the PPC to print 'Bylaw 14 Offence' on it's tickets/letters to give a more intimidating effect.
    Whoa! This image violates our terms of use and has been removed from view
    • TwistedPsycho
    • By TwistedPsycho 11th Jun 11, 6:55 PM
    • 779 Posts
    • 1,016 Thanks
    TwistedPsycho
    However, when you are issued with a penalty fare ON the train, they will often send you a couple of reminders (and administration costs) as well, prior to heading to the court system......
    Signaller, author, father, carer.
    • Livingthedream
    • By Livingthedream 11th Jun 11, 7:16 PM
    • 2,530 Posts
    • 3,489 Thanks
    Livingthedream
    However, when you are issued with a penalty fare ON the train, they will often send you a couple of reminders (and administration costs) as well, prior to heading to the court system......
    Originally posted by TwistedPsycho
    Penalty fares are slightly different as these are a civil remedy for an otherwise criminal matter and not in itself a bylaw offence.

    The only time it become a bylaw Offence is when you ignore the Penalty fare, then the Train Company cancels the Penalty fare and prosecutes under Bylaw 18.

    Problem is Train companies get more money from a Penalty fare than Bylaw 18 so it's in their interest to pursue it through threatening letters.
    Whoa! This image violates our terms of use and has been removed from view
  • vax2002
    If you take a punt to explore this great Myth that even the Pepippo pundits fear of.
    Ill pledge £10 if it goes tits up
    Anyone else ?
    It is about time we tested these.
    • Stigy
    • By Stigy 11th Jun 11, 9:20 PM
    • 1,466 Posts
    • 603 Thanks
    Stigy
    Penalty fares are slightly different as these are a civil remedy for an otherwise criminal matter and not in itself a bylaw offence.

    The only time it become a bylaw Offence is when you ignore the Penalty fare, then the Train Company cancels the Penalty fare and prosecutes under Bylaw 18.

    Problem is Train companies get more money from a Penalty fare than Bylaw 18 so it's in their interest to pursue it through threatening letters.
    Originally posted by Livingthedream
    Couldn't have said it better myself

    As you say, it's the original offence that's charged, and not the PFN. That being the case, if the TOC get paid a late payment of say, £60 for a PFN, they're laughing (bear in mind though, that they certainly wouldn't receive all £20 of the PF had it been paid, anyway...More realistically it would be about £3). If it goes to court, yes the defendant will more than likely be penalised far greater than that of the PF anyway, but even with tyhe TOCs costs taken in to account of say £110, this will all be accounted for taking in to account the extra admin work in puting the case together.

    With Parking notices, they could try the same thing I guess, just with a different Byelaw. So you'll receive a few letters asking for money, then they'll cancel the notice, proceed to Mags Court and apply for their costs (£100 or so) and compensation (cost of the parking ticket that was avoided if applicable).

    The reason the Byelaws make the owner liable, is, I'd imagine, because when issuing a parking ticket, the chances are that you'll not have personal dealings with the 'customer' as you would when issuing a PFN, or reporting other Byelaws direct for prosecution.
  • panders
    Having had a PCN from Meteor at a Southern Railway station back in January I would be inclined to follow the advice of ignoring. In my case the machine malfunctioned and there was not another machine/manned ticket office on site. My appeal was rejected and I decided that any Judge would be able to see that I acted reasonably in the steps I took to try and pay/contact Meteor etc, so I was kindof looking forward to my day in court where CCTV footage would have shown my attempts to pay(altho apparently this is not accessible to Meteor). I received the usual sucession of letters escalating the cost and threats and I have ignored them all. The last was in April and was a threat of Intended Legal Action, still nothing.
  • jlsmith
    Panders,
    Do you mind letting us know how much the threatened 'fine' has escalated too? At the moment I have 3 x £165 being demanded and I just need to be aware of how much thus could escalate to if I continue to resist their advances.
    Thanks
  • jlsmith
    I have written back denying legitimacy of tickets from a Byelaw perspective and we will see where we go from there.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 14th Jun 11, 8:15 PM
    • 23,299 Posts
    • 28,395 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    The problem with this approach is that they think they have a hooked fish, despite all you say, and they will just try harder to get the loot. They give up quicker when ignored, hence the advice. However its up to you, if you like receiving lots of threatening letters (more than if ignored)then I am sure you won't be disappointed.
    Millies due back at Christmas.
  • jlsmith
    Peter the Piper,

    You may be right, but with three of these tickets on the go at once and the threat of magistrates' courts being made, I think it is important to put a line in the sand to deny legitimacy of the tickets and give good reasons why.

    Regards,
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