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  • FIRST POST
    craggs
    If you have ben on a speed awareness course & with admiral
    • #1
    • 30th Apr 11, 3:53 PM
    If you have ben on a speed awareness course & with admiral 30th Apr 11 at 3:53 PM
    Just letting people know if you have been on a speed awareness course and are with admiral you must tell them otherwise your insurance will be void.

    As since november 2009 admiral now under convictions list a 'SAC' code (speed awareness code) that they will add to you for 5 years,even though it is not a conviction as such.

    It will put your premium up and it may cause a problem when you come to change companys as only admiral use this code.'some' other companys are not sure how to deal with it and 'may' decline the insurance.

    It is a nice way of admiral to keep you there I suppose.

    Its ok saying im not going to tell them,but admiral new I had been on it somehow and forced me to do a call with the dvla in 2009.

    Just wanted people to know and to help inform that if you was in an accident and not told them about this course you could find yourself in a spot of bother with them.
    Dony worry,be happy...
Page 1
  • mikey72
    • #2
    • 30th Apr 11, 3:55 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Apr 11, 3:55 PM
    It doesn't seem unreasonable, you've still been caught speeding at the end of the day.
  • craggs
    • #3
    • 30th Apr 11, 4:03 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Apr 11, 4:03 PM
    It doesn't seem unreasonable, you've still been caught speeding at the end of the day.
    Originally posted by mikey72
    No im not saying it is unreasonable yes you have been caught speeding.But as only admiral use the code no other company use it.

    EG..I have had a cheap quote via ECAR,,but they have declined the insurance,,why? because when i rang to tell them I have a conviction 'SAC' on my NCB paper they have said they do not use this code,and are not sure how to deal with it (is what the lady said) so decided they will not go ahead and adviced me to try another insurer.

    That is not allowing freedom of being able to chop with another company and tie you into using admiral..is that reasonable
    Dony worry,be happy...
  • kingstreet
    • #4
    • 1st May 11, 1:13 AM
    • #4
    • 1st May 11, 1:13 AM
    While I appreciate Admiral's right to ask if a SAC has been attended, the fact it chooses to add an offence code to its answer dropdown for the conviction question is not relevant to other insurers.

    When asked if you have been convicted of any offence, you can legitimately answer "no" unless the question also includes "or attended a speed awareness course?"

    The offer of a speed awareness course is given in lieu of conviction and removes the threat of points and fine.

    So if you apply to another insurer at renewal, don't look for the SAC offence code as it isn't needed and it will cause needless confusion if you attempt to tell your new insurer about it if they don't specifically ask.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Not here for your business. We only work "face to face" in the West Midlands and Staffordshire, if you aren't buying from one of our builders.
  • lisyloo
    • #5
    • 1st May 11, 10:03 AM
    • #5
    • 1st May 11, 10:03 AM
    Thanks for the warning to others craggs.

    I would agree with kingstreet, don't mention it to other companies if they ask about convictions, it not a conviction (unless of course the course is specifically asked about).
  • craggs
    • #6
    • 1st May 11, 2:15 PM
    • #6
    • 1st May 11, 2:15 PM
    Thanks for the response kingstreet.

    I have now obtained a new quote from axa,I did phone them to queiry the code,as it is printed on my NCB under convictions,so they would of seen it anyway and more than likely called me to ask what it is.

    I appreciate admiral using this code,but for there own records,to print it as a conviction cause confusion to other companys,.

    Back to axa,the lady had to speak to her manager and call me back,she has said that she cannot understand why admiral have listed this as a conviction when its not an 'official' 4 digit code that is used by everyone,she told me not to worry as they dont rate on a speed awarness course,she did agree it could cause confusion to other companys.

    So after battling for 18 months the closest ive got today with admiral is they are sending my proof of NCB out in a headed letter without mentioning the 'SAC' cod. as they use it for there own reference only.. But they said by law I have freedom of choice to go to other companys and they cant impede my chances after I told them ecar would not go ahead with my quote due to them not understanding this code.

    I am still in contact with the insurance ombudsman but they dont seen to have much power,It just seems to me that that a speed awareness course is not a conviction so why have i got under convictions on my NCB...Convictions--1---code--SAC--points---0.

    I have had so many forwords and backwards letter with admiral about this code in the last year,but today after I asked directly to the rep "is a speed awarness a conviction" he said no but they rate on it,,I said im fine with that,but its not an official conviction where ive sent in my DL and had points,He said "no" My answer was so why is it listed under convictions?it was that point he went away and had to comfirm with 3 other collegues.

    I want to add,I do except I did speed,i hold my hands up,but i was not convicted.Im fine with admiral having this on there records,they can rate how they like,but its not as yet an official conviction 4 digit code.
    Dony worry,be happy...
  • kingstreet
    • #7
    • 1st May 11, 6:24 PM
    • #7
    • 1st May 11, 6:24 PM
    That's the whole point. You were not convicted.

    An allegation was made and you were offered a course as an alternative to conviction. I've got news for Admiral too, if you're reading. I know of lots of cases where drivers have been offered driver improvement courses in lieu of prosecution for Driving Without Due Care & Attention or Reasonable Consideration For Other Road Users. See this;-

    http://www.drivesafe.org.uk/index.ph...er-improvement

    and tell me, if there's a SAC code is there also a "DAC" code for Driver Alertness Course?

    If there isn't, perhaps you are concentrating on the wrong targets here? Drivers who've been involved in an accident and where the Police felt their driving fell below an acceptable standard, or drivers who, until recently, were within limit + 10% + 6mph, or 39 in a 30 for example?

    If you are concerned about what's written on your renewal, you could simply circumvent the process by sending a covering letter with your proof of NCD explaining Admiral's quirk and also enclosing a copy of your conviction-free driving licence. I'm surprised Axa didn't already know about this. Let's face it, yours can't be the first case and it has been raised on PepiPoo once or twice in the last couple of years.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Not here for your business. We only work "face to face" in the West Midlands and Staffordshire, if you aren't buying from one of our builders.
  • miz2011
    • #8
    • 16th May 11, 10:12 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 11, 10:12 PM
    i've just got a quote with admiral and was about to take it untill i saw this. i was caught by a red light camera last year and took a new online course and wasn't given a conviction or penalty points.

    this course was called a red light scheme (RLS). i went back onto admiral to do a requote but there was no code for the red light scheme. am i right in thinking i don't need to inform them?

    i tried it with the SAC code and my quote jumped up by over 200. now i know i was wrong for being an amber gambler, but the whole point of this course was as it was my first offence i wouldn't be convicted so i don't see why i should inform them about this.

    *EDIT*
    Just checked on the DVLA and these codes are not official codes, no mention at all of them. seems to me that Admiral are trying to cash in on people who are unaware these are not real codes.

    admiral help tab on this question says that details of you're conviction are listed on you're paper counterpart, i never had to send my licence off therefore no conviction code is present.

    i'm not sure if they can legally void you're insurance for something that isn't a conviction.

    *EDIT 2*
    It seems the red light course is only available in merseyside and manchester, possibly hence there is no code for it. also how can they enforce this if you go through a comparison site which don't carry these codes.

    would be good if someone in the insurance business could help us with this
    Last edited by miz2011; 16-05-2011 at 11:26 PM.
  • jamesza
    • #9
    • 28th Sep 12, 8:22 AM
    • #9
    • 28th Sep 12, 8:22 AM
    Just for interest

    I had a letter from Admiral informing me that I had to pay an extra 40 since a named driver who had reported the SOC was on my insurance.

    I contacted Admiral and successfully argued that their help instructed you to look on your license for any endorsements or penalties and the SOC doesnt appear on the license therefore I should not be penalised from their omissions.

    Hopefully they havent changed their guidance for anyone to have a look.
  • dollywops
    Thank you for revisiting this thread, as I had no idea that you had to tell your insurer about a SAC. DD is going on a SAC in 3 weeks time and now I have to tell Admiral. I wonder how much this is going to cost?
  • Quentin
    Do some virtual quotes online with and without the course and see what difference it makes to the premium.

    In any case check the policy wording to see when they require to be told about courses you have attended as you may not have to at all or not till you renew.

    In which case you might want to go to another insurer who wouldn't be interested in what courses you have attended.
  • dollywops
    Thank you for revisiting this thread, as I had no idea that you had to tell your insurer about a SAC. DD is going on a SAC in 3 weeks time and now I have to tell Admiral. I wonder how much this is going to cost?
    Originally posted by dollywops
    Just got off the phone to Admiral. CS advised you don't have to tell them about an SAC, as it does not appear anywhere. However, if you do, it will increase your premium!
  • craggs
    Hello, long time since I started this thread, just to the poster above admiral at the time said I had to inform them.what I did was when I was caught I rang to ask ''if I was caught roughly how much would my insurance go up" general question but I didn't no at that point myself as I'd only just gone through the camera,, it was when my renewal come through I excepted it and it got declined, when I called they said it was because I'd made an enquiry and I'd have to make a conference call with the dvla.

    After much arguing I admitted all I did was go on a sac, and the rest writes itself..

    Btw I had contact with an official in the end at admiral, I emailed complaints and was responded by some director, many emails was passed back and forth before he gave in and removed the sac code from my convictions.

    I'm not sure if admiral use this insane code still to generate money but it is a code they used and if it come to it where you needed to claim and they found out you had been on the course they at the time would of maybe declined the insurance.

    Even though I had got the code removed in the end they still said they keep it on record for 5 yrs.,
    Dony worry,be happy...
  • Mel2500
    All in the news today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20328860
    that Admiral will increase your premiums if you have attended a SAC.
  • Quentin
    Although in the news today, they have been doing this for 3 years.
  • craggs
    Just to let people know,I have been asked to go on tonights show about this on bbc radio 5 live investigates,,so tune in freeview channel 705,sky 0105 ,,not sure how much I will be able to get said as there is a lot of response regarding this.

    Im just really happy its come to light finally
    Dony worry,be happy...
  • olly300
    Just to let people know,I have been asked to go on tonights show about this on bbc radio 5 live investigates,,so tune in freeview channel 705,sky 0105 ,,not sure how much I will be able to get said as there is a lot of response regarding this.

    Im just really happy its come to light finally
    Originally posted by craggs
    It will be available as a podcast here if you miss it.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • sarahg1969
    I'd be interested to know how they'd find out if you didn't tell them.
  • Yorkie1
    Just to let people know,I have been asked to go on tonights show about this on bbc radio 5 live investigates,,so tune in freeview channel 705,sky 0105 ,,not sure how much I will be able to get said as there is a lot of response regarding this.

    Im just really happy its come to light finally
    Originally posted by craggs
    You sounded OK!

    One thing which frustrated me about the programme, is that there was an overt acceptance - particularly by callers / texters - that everyone one who accepted the SAC was automatically guilty of the offence.

    Nobody has been convicted and therefore what happened to innocent until proven guilty? The SAC is only offered at low % over the limit, and it cannot be assumed that everyone who accepts the SAC would have been convicted at trial if it went to court.
  • olly300
    You sounded OK!

    One thing which frustrated me about the programme, is that there was an overt acceptance - particularly by callers / texters - that everyone one who accepted the SAC was automatically guilty of the offence.
    Originally posted by Yorkie1
    Agreed.

    I don't understand how insurance companies were gettting sympathy.

    If you are sent on SAC you aren't a significant danger to other road users otherwise you would have been charged with something more serious.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
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