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  • FIRST POST
    • squeaky
    • By squeaky 8th Apr 11, 8:40 PM
    • 13,811Posts
    • 15,845Thanks
    squeaky
    Quick questions on Consumer Rights
    • #1
    • 8th Apr 11, 8:40 PM
    Quick questions on Consumer Rights 8th Apr 11 at 8:40 PM
    Hi,

    If you have a query that you think will only need a quick yes or no answer then feel free to ask it here.

    Otherwise you are very welcome to start a new thread.

    Whatever you decide... good luck
    Last edited by squeaky; 20-04-2011 at 9:49 AM.
    Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.

    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
Page 53
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 29th Jan 18, 1:30 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 9,162 Thanks
    unholyangel

    The CRA says that the seller must cover all costs, including postage, when providing a repair or replacement, but I don't think it says anything similar when a refund is being provided.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    The poster might not come back and see this but for future reference:

    7)From the time when the right is exercised—
    (a)the trader has a duty to give the consumer a refund, subject to subsection (18), and
    (b)the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.

    (8)Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.
    And from explanatory notes:
    111.Subsection (8) clarifies that any reasonable costs of returning rejected goods to the trader (except where the consumer returns the goods in person to where they obtained physical possession of them) is to be borne by the trader. This includes the trader paying postal costs. This applies whether or not the consumer has agreed to return the goods, as mentioned in subsection (7).

    112.Subsection (8) does not prevent a consumer from pursuing a damages claim. For example, a consumer might wish to do so in circumstances where returning the goods to the place that the consumer obtained physical possession of them does incur quite substantial costs for the consumer.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • The Simp
    • By The Simp 31st Jan 18, 9:29 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    The Simp
    Watch not fit for purpose?
    Hi All
    I bought a very nice Panerai watch as a treat for myself May 2015. It was £5,000. I didn't wear it and kept it safe in the box in my wardrobe until Christmas 2016 when I had it on for four hours during which time it worked perfectly as you'd expect. I kept it safe once more in the box hidden away until today when I took it out and wound up upon which I discovered it ticks a little then stops. It's a manual wind watch and is now fully wound but won't go.
    I've contacted the dealer I bought it from to be told the warranty was for 2 years which has now expired and it'd have to be sent back to the manufacturer for repair at my cost.
    Now, surely a watch of such supposed quality should work after a year in the box and if not must be faulty or not fit for purpose and also hasn't performed to a reasonable and/or acceptable level?


    Can anybody help or offer advice, I'm somewhat annoyed at present.


    Thanks in advance!
    Andy
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 31st Jan 18, 10:35 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 9,162 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Hi All
    I bought a very nice Panerai watch as a treat for myself May 2015. It was £5,000. I didn't wear it and kept it safe in the box in my wardrobe until Christmas 2016 when I had it on for four hours during which time it worked perfectly as you'd expect. I kept it safe once more in the box hidden away until today when I took it out and wound up upon which I discovered it ticks a little then stops. It's a manual wind watch and is now fully wound but won't go.
    I've contacted the dealer I bought it from to be told the warranty was for 2 years which has now expired and it'd have to be sent back to the manufacturer for repair at my cost.
    Now, surely a watch of such supposed quality should work after a year in the box and if not must be faulty or not fit for purpose and also hasn't performed to a reasonable and/or acceptable level?


    Can anybody help or offer advice, I'm somewhat annoyed at present.


    Thanks in advance!
    Andy
    Originally posted by The Simp
    We did have a poster who fixes watches for a living (who was usually very good at shedding light on watch issues) but I'll be damned if I can remember who it was. Joe Horner maybe?

    Legally, as it was before Oct 2015, the SoGA will apply and as its more than 6 months from purchase, it would be for you to prove the lack of conformity is inherent in nature. Once you do that, the retailer should provide a repair, replacement or refund (which can be partial to take account use you had of the item).

    Perhaps try and find a reputable watchmaker and ask them if they would be willing to provide a report and how much it would cost. If the report finds in your favour (that its inherent), the cost of the report would be recoverable from the retailer.

    If you paid by credit card you can also seek a remedy from the card company under section 75 of the consumer credit act.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 31st Jan 18, 10:42 PM
    • 5,661 Posts
    • 4,354 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi All
    I bought a very nice Panerai watch...
    Originally posted by The Simp
    You need to read MSE's Consumer Rights guide.

    In there you'll discover that you have up to six years to seek a remedy from the seller.

    A warranty/guarantee is in addition to your statutory rights and can have restrictions, but it cannot remove your statutory rights.

    How did you pay for this purchase? By credit card or some other form of credit?
    If so, consider a claim against the credit provider under Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act.
    MSE's Section 75 article may help with that.

    All that assumes the seller is in the UK. Is that right?
    .
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 31st Jan 18, 10:45 PM
    • 5,661 Posts
    • 4,354 Thanks
    KeithP
    We did have a poster who fixes watches for a living (who was usually very good at shedding light on watch issues) but I'll be damned if I can remember who it was. Joe Horner maybe?
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Yes, username Joe Horner.
    .
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 31st Jan 18, 11:02 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 9,162 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Yes, username Joe Horner.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thank you, memory isn't the best at times.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • The Simp
    • By The Simp 1st Feb 18, 6:48 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    The Simp
    We did have a poster who fixes watches for a living (who was usually very good at shedding light on watch issues) but I'll be damned if I can remember who it was. Joe Horner maybe?

    Legally, as it was before Oct 2015, the SoGA will apply and as its more than 6 months from purchase, it would be for you to prove the lack of conformity is inherent in nature. Once you do that, the retailer should provide a repair, replacement or refund (which can be partial to take account use you had of the item).

    Perhaps try and find a reputable watchmaker and ask them if they would be willing to provide a report and how much it would cost. If the report finds in your favour (that its inherent), the cost of the report would be recoverable from the retailer.

    If you paid by credit card you can also seek a remedy from the card company under section 75 of the consumer credit act.
    Originally posted by unholyangel

    Thanks Unholyangel
    I've emailed Panerai themselves as well and they seem to be fairly helpful so far. I gave then a bit of stick re the watch quality etc.
    I'm going to try through them first then if necessary take your advice re the CCA.
    Appreciate your response.


    Andy
    • The Simp
    • By The Simp 1st Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    The Simp
    You need to read

    In there you'll discover that you have up to six years to seek a remedy from the seller.

    A warranty/guarantee is in addition to your statutory rights and can have restrictions, but it cannot remove your statutory rights.

    How did you pay for this purchase? By credit card or some other form of credit?
    If so, consider a claim against the credit provider under Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act.
    may help with that.

    All that assumes the seller is in the UK. Is that right?
    Originally posted by KeithP

    Thanks KeithP
    It was a UK purchase on interest free, not actually finished paying for it yet! I did pay a £500 deposit on credit card as well so I guess I can fall back on that as well. Going to try Panerai themselves first who seem to be helpful so far and see if they can push a repair through the dealer.
    Thanks again for coming back.
    Andy
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Feb 18, 9:23 PM
    • 5,661 Posts
    • 4,354 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thanks KeithP
    It was a UK purchase on interest free, not actually finished paying for it yet! I did pay a £500 deposit on credit card as well so I guess I can fall back on that as well. Going to try Panerai themselves first who seem to be helpful so far and see if they can push a repair through the dealer.
    Thanks again for coming back.
    Andy
    Originally posted by The Simp
    Assuming whoever supplied the interest free credit wasn't the seller, but a finance company, then that finance company also have a similar responsibility under S75 of the CCA.

    So you have four entities to chase - the seller, credit card issuer, interest free loan provider and the manufacturer.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by KeithP; 01-02-2018 at 10:56 PM.
    .
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 2nd Feb 18, 10:11 AM
    • 592 Posts
    • 317 Thanks
    Raxiel
    This isn't related to a current issue, just something I'm wondering.

    If a phone with IP 67 water resistance develops a fault, and the vendor opts to repair it rather than replace, are they obliged to ensure the device has the same level of ingress protection it had before the repair?

    If the phone subsequently developed a fault due to water damage (or with no clear cause, but the internal moisture indicators had been triggered), would there be grounds for a claim? Or to put it another way, grounds to deny a claim?

    I'm aware there is a difference between water resistance and water proofing, assume the device got wet, but not submerged, something you could reasonably expect IP67 to handle.

    I'm also aware this is probably a situation that has no clear-cut answer and would depend on the specifics, but I'm still interested to hear opinions.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 2nd Feb 18, 10:55 AM
    • 19,480 Posts
    • 10,580 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Yes, username Joe Horner.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    That guy is certainly still active on the forum, but seems to post almost exclusively about motoring issues. He doesn't appear to the poster with a penchant for watches. I could be wrong, of course, I only had a quick scan of his posting history...
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 2nd Feb 18, 11:05 AM
    • 5,214 Posts
    • 10,688 Thanks
    marliepanda
    This isn't related to a current issue, just something I'm wondering.

    If a phone with IP 67 water resistance develops a fault, and the vendor opts to repair it rather than replace, are they obliged to ensure the device has the same level of ingress protection it had before the repair?

    If the phone subsequently developed a fault due to water damage (or with no clear cause, but the internal moisture indicators had been triggered), would there be grounds for a claim? Or to put it another way, grounds to deny a claim? Okay so my question would be, how do you know that the repair had affected the ingress protection?

    I'm aware there is a difference between water resistance and water proofing, assume the device got wet, but not submerged, something you could reasonably expect IP67 to handle. Again, how would you show it had simply been 'wet to a point IP67 should handle as opposed to submerged

    I'm also aware this is probably a situation that has no clear-cut answer and would depend on the specifics, but I'm still interested to hear opinions.
    Originally posted by Raxiel
    Too many things that wouldn't be able to be proven. If its water damaged, you got it too wet.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 2nd Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 5,661 Posts
    • 4,354 Thanks
    KeithP
    That guy is certainly still active on the forum, but seems to post almost exclusively about motoring issues. He doesn't appear to the poster with a penchant for watches. I could be wrong, of course, I only had a quick scan of his posting history...
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    From his profile page:

    .
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 8th Feb 18, 3:49 PM
    • 4,255 Posts
    • 3,744 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    That guy is certainly still active on the forum, but seems to post almost exclusively about motoring issues. He doesn't appear to the poster with a penchant for watches. I could be wrong, of course, I only had a quick scan of his posting history...
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    Yep, I'm still around Don't post much about watches simply because, when I finish work, I'd rather switch off and think about something else

    That said, I do scan the boards now and then and try to offer suggestions when i see issues I might be able to offer useful advice about.

    In this case, hopefully Panerai will help the owner out. I'm not personally a fan of their styling but they're a reputable company and their products are genuinely good quality so they'll have an interest in keeping owners happy.

    Leaving any machine not working for long periods isn't a great idea - leave a car standing for 18 months and you wouldn't expect to just get in it and drive! Watches are no exception to that but at least they tend not to rust

    In this case the most likely problem is simply that the oils have hardened from lack of use and a straightforward service would get it back to new performance.

    It's worth remembering that a "new" watch may already be 12 months (or more!) since manufacture when you buy it and, with a hand-wound example, will have been stopped for most of that. So this watch might have had a total of 5 or 6 days running in the past 4 years. Even the best oils will suffer from that sort of lack of use!
    • Floorwalker
    • By Floorwalker 14th Feb 18, 10:11 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Floorwalker
    Hi, I bought a refurbished laptop via go groopie. It arrived just before xmas and i was then diagnosed with a brain tumour and out of commission for some time. When I came to use it about 6weeks later I discovered it was considerably bashed about, had a runtime error, wouldnt connect to the internet and the keyboard bore no relation to what printed out. I posted it back to the company at my expense, another £12.38 asking for a refund. Eventually got a response saying no, out of 30 day warranty you can have a replacement or pay for an upgrade. Understandably my faith in this company was gone so wanted neither, I said its not fit for purpose, so want a refund. They have passed it to goroopie who either truthfully of not cant seem to achieve anything. Also gone onto the laptop website to discover its clearly a site set up for the sole purpose of being able to then say youre saving whatever percent as nobody in their right minds would buy at the price on their website, am I correct about the Sale of Goods Act???
    • Greta Sharbo
    • By Greta Sharbo 14th Feb 18, 2:30 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    Greta Sharbo
    Sale of goods act was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act in October 2015.

    Under CRA if the item is not satisfactory quality you are entitled to a remedy but if more than 30 days has passed, the trader can choose the remedy - you can ask for a refund but the trader is entitled to a chance to repair or replace first.

    You can only insist on a refund in the first 30 days
    • Tara86
    • By Tara86 14th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tara86
    Hi I've bought two car seats online (haven't received them yet) from Precious Little Ones website, the product I ordered stated "Free Delivery" I bout two for my twins and paid by pay pal, but when I got my pay pal receipt it showed £20 more than I expected, I checked and they company doesn't delivery free to my postcode but this shows nowhere on the product selling page unless you go looking for delivery charges and the product price had free delivery written beside it, no Astrix or anything to show that it isn't free to all areas of the UK, I screen shotted it and sent it to the company to complain this was Faldo advertising, but they have responded saying it does say in "on their website" but only if you go looking for it!
    What are my rights? If any? TIA
    • meer53
    • By meer53 14th Feb 18, 4:46 PM
    • 9,066 Posts
    • 13,185 Thanks
    meer53
    Hi I've bought two car seats online (haven't received them yet) from Precious Little Ones website, the product I ordered stated "Free Delivery" I bout two for my twins and paid by pay pal, but when I got my pay pal receipt it showed £20 more than I expected, I checked and they company doesn't delivery free to my postcode but this shows nowhere on the product selling page unless you go looking for delivery charges and the product price had free delivery written beside it, no Astrix or anything to show that it isn't free to all areas of the UK, I screen shotted it and sent it to the company to complain this was Faldo advertising, but they have responded saying it does say in "on their website" but only if you go looking for it!
    What are my rights? If any? TIA
    Originally posted by Tara86
    This is on their website

    Yodel Courier Delivery Surcharges


    express24 deliveries via Yodel are FREE for all purchases of £50 and over and £3.95 for all deliveries under £50 with the exception of the following postcodes areas:

    Charges for the following postcode areas are as follows:
    For purchases under £50, the delivery charge would be £3.95 plus £10 per box.
    For purchases over £50, the charge would be £10 per box.
    BT
    GY
    JE
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 14th Feb 18, 5:03 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 9,162 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Just did a test order of 2 seats to a BT postcode - it does show you before you complete the order that a £20 delivery fee is added and tell you the new total (the screen after you enter your delivery & billing details.


    If you aren't happy with the final price then perhaps cancel under the CCRs?
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Alh382
    • By Alh382 16th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Alh382
    Brighton and hove council are still charging a 40p surcharge when paying by card on the app and on the meters. Is this now illegal?
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