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59 year old failed 2nd medical for ESA after passing first....
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# 1
chinna
Old 17-03-2011, 11:40 PM
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Default 59 year old failed 2nd medical for ESA after passing first....

Hi,
My dad got a letter today after his Atos medical assesment last week and scored 0. Last year he scored 20. He has severe arthritis and walks with a walking stick. So his ESA will stop from today.

I went with my dad last week for the assesment has my dad does not speak english and I was told that I could not go in with him as a interperter had been booked and there was not enough space in the room, even though we did not request an interperter and also I had taken a day off work to translate for him. The recepionist was very rude and it came across as if they had planned for me to not go in as my dad stated in his form that I would be coming with him. Eventually after a long chat they let me go with him.

I just wanted to share this experience and get advice to the best way to make my dads appeal as he his in shock, through a solicitor etc. Thanks for any help.

Last edited by chinna; 17-03-2011 at 11:58 PM.
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# 2
FTW
Old 17-03-2011, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chinna View Post
Hi,
My dad got a letter today after his Atol medical assesment last week and scored 0. Last year he scored 20. He has severe arthritis and walks with a walking stick. So his ESA will stop from today.

I went with my dad last week for the assesment has my dad does not speak english and I was told that I could not go in with him as a interperter had been booked and there was not enough space in the room, even though we did not request an interperter and also I had taken a day off work to translate for him. The recepionist was very rude and it came across as if they had planned for me to not go in as my dad stated in his form that I would be coming with him. Eventually after a long chat they let me go with him.

I just wanted to share this experience and get advice to the best way to make my dads appeal as he his in shock, through a solicitor etc. Thanks for any help.
Get a copy of the medical report that's instigated the decision, and look at appealing the decision.

If you find transparent lies on the report, which you more than likely will, then look at obtaining medical evidence (doctors, specialists, etc) that disputes what's said on that report.

Also, if he ever has to attend another assessment, it's worth secretly audio-recording it (he CAN do this!).

The recording - and/or a transcript of that recording - will make his case for contesting the report (if the report's a duff one) much stronger if the appeal reaches the tribunal stage.

The DWP may reconsider before it gets that far, but that's a very remote possibility - and not something I've ever known to happen in cases I'm aware of (myself, friends, acquaintances).

And if it gets to tribunal, and the tribunal reverse the DWP decision, then it's also worth reporting the assessor to the GMC and the BMA - with a stopover gap to the Information Commissioner's Office, due to Atos inaccurately processing data likely to cause harm.
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# 3
paddedjohn
Old 18-03-2011, 1:16 AM
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why cant he speak english?
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# 4
allen35
Old 18-03-2011, 1:26 AM
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why cant he speak english?
Chinese perhaps..
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# 5
Oldernotwiser
Old 18-03-2011, 7:55 AM
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Just because he walks with a stick, doesn't mean that he can't do any work. I think it's really accommodating of the organisation that an interpreter was arranged; I can't see how you could object to that.
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# 6
seven-day-weekend
Old 18-03-2011, 8:11 AM
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I too think that arranging the interpreter was good customer service.

They will be looking to see if there is ANY work he can do, not just physical work.

If he fails again, he will have to go onto Jobseekers' Allowance until he is old enough to claim Pension Credit, sometime after he is sixty. Once he is on pension Credit, there will be no requirement to look for work.

Find the age he will be eligible for Pension Credit from this link:

http://pensions-service.direct.gov.u...lator/home.asp
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# 7
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Old 18-03-2011, 10:26 AM
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As he has failed to secure ESA then JSA is his only option. However the inability to speak English is going to be a huge problem. What sort of work did he do previously?
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# 8
Mojisola
Old 18-03-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinna View Post
My dad got a letter today after his Atos medical assesment last week and scored 0. Last year he scored 20. He has severe arthritis and walks with a walking stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldernotwiser View Post
Just because he walks with a stick, doesn't mean that he can't do any work. I think it's really accommodating of the organisation that an interpreter was arranged; I can't see how you could object to that.
Having severe arthritis doesn't just mean that you have to walk with a stick but are otherwise 100% fit.

It's miraculous how someone could be "cured" in the space of a year, going from 20 points to being perfectly fit!

chinna - you're going to have fight the decision. Follow FTW's advice. It would help to get an advisor involved. Appeals fought by advisors have a much higher success rate. See if your father's council has Welfare Officers (different councils use different names for these), or try CAB or DIAL.

I think providing the interpreter was actually a good thing - trying to keep you out of the room was not. I wouldn't go to a medical with ATOS on my own. They knew you were coming with your father and should have made sure there would be enough room for all the people involved.
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# 9
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 10:34 AM
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why cant he speak english?
He's been here over 40 years. Came to England when they needed manual workers and there was a shortage in the 60's. He never was confident to learn english. He has always done manual work. He regrets now he did not learn the language.

Last edited by chinna; 18-03-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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# 10
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 10:36 AM
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Chinese perhaps..
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# 11
Mrs Arcanum
Old 18-03-2011, 10:42 AM
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Make sure your dad applies for JSA and signs on regularly whilst the appeal is in progress. At least he will have some money coming in that way. Once his appeal is successful his money will be backdated.
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# 12
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldernotwiser View Post
Just because he walks with a stick, doesn't mean that he can't do any work. I think it's really accommodating of the organisation that an interpreter was arranged; I can't see how you could object to that.
Did not object to the interpreter. We put in the form that I would be taking my dad for the assesment and would be translating for him.

What we did object to was when the recepionist wouldn't allow me to go into the assesment with my dad saying there was not enough room. There was loads of room. When we went in the nurse aplogised for what happened earlier and said there was a misunderstanding.
The recepionist was determined not to let me go with my dad, it came across as if she had been briefed beforehand.
My understanding was that you were allowed to take someone with you too the assesment, it was your right.
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# 13
melbi_uk
Old 18-03-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by krisskross View Post
As he has failed to secure ESA then JSA is his only option. However the inability to speak English is going to be a huge problem. What sort of work did he do previously?
I thought they continued to pay the ESA at the assessment rate if you have appealed?
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# 14
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 10:49 AM
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As he has failed to secure ESA then JSA is his only option. However the inability to speak English is going to be a huge problem. What sort of work did he do previously?
Just manual factory work.
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Mrs Arcanum
Old 18-03-2011, 10:51 AM
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I thought they continued to pay the ESA at the assessment rate if you have appealed?
Apparently as soon as you have been failed it stops - what happens whilst you appeal may be ESA at JSA rate. However we were advised that many people who are refused ESA cannot cope with or understand the JSA system due to their disabilities so will be without any money if they fail to sign on.
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# 16
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojisola View Post
Having severe arthritis doesn't just mean that you have to walk with a stick but are otherwise 100% fit.

It's miraculous how someone could be "cured" in the space of a year, going from 20 points to being perfectly fit!

chinna - you're going to have fight the decision. Follow FTW's advice. It would help to get an advisor involved. Appeals fought by advisors have a much higher success rate. See if your father's council has Welfare Officers (different councils use different names for these), or try CAB or DIAL.

I think providing the interpreter was actually a good thing - trying to keep you out of the room was not. I wouldn't go to a medical with ATOS on my own. They knew you were coming with your father and should have made sure there would be enough room for all the people involved.
I am going to fight, and I will post a update will go through a advisor. Thats the thing I dont understand how can you in the same assesment go from 20 to 0 within 12 months.

The interpreter was their decision but I had been to 2 of these assesments with my dad before and they never had a problem and in the form we clearly stated that i would be bringing my dad and translating for him. The problem we had was that the recepionist was stopping me going with my dad and when they did agree she said 3 times to me that i could not talk in the room. It just came across as if it had been planned.
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# 17
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Arcanum View Post
Make sure your dad applies for JSA and signs on regularly whilst the appeal is in progress. At least he will have some money coming in that way. Once his appeal is successful his money will be backdated.
He's not capable of going and signing on, he just cant walk his knees are that bad swollen. And also I have to take day of work to take him.
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melbi_uk
Old 18-03-2011, 11:02 AM
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I am going to fight, and I will post a update will go through a advisor. Thats the thing I dont understand how can you in the same assesment go from 20 to 0 within 12 months.

The interpreter was their decision but I had been to 2 of these assesments with my dad before and they never had a problem and in the form we clearly stated that i would be bringing my dad and translating for him. The problem we had was that the recepionist was stopping me going with my dad and when they did agree she said 3 times to me that i could not talk in the room. It just came across as if it had been planned.

My daughter came in with me and she did most of the talking for me.(I speak English!) You have been treated very unfairly and I hope you get justice.

Good luck with the appeal x
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# 19
chinna
Old 18-03-2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Arcanum View Post
Apparently as soon as you have been failed it stops - what happens whilst you appeal may be ESA at JSA rate. However we were advised that many people who are refused ESA cannot cope with or understand the JSA system due to their disabilities so will be without any money if they fail to sign on.
Thats right they have stopped it and said apply for jobseekers allowance.
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# 20
nad1611
Old 18-03-2011, 11:05 AM
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Just because he walks with a stick, doesn't mean that he can't do any work. I think it's really accommodating of the organisation that an interpreter was arranged; I can't see how you could object to that.
I think if her father has severe Arthritis walking with a walking stick is not going to be his only incapacity I think she used the stick to illustrate his condition further. The fact that they got an interpreter was thoughtful, but I believe you were absolutely right to go in with him, I would never go into an assessment without someone for moral support, anyone whose ever been to one will know how it feels.

I have had experience of Assessors writing things differently to what I said which made a huge impact on my score.

Since that time I make sure I have all blood tests, scans, Consultant letters etc to hand and I've found I've gone through each time. I think if they can see you're a genuine case you'll be okay, although I have also heard some horror stories about people who haven't scored enough who seem to be about to expire( well not literally but you know what I mean).

The trouble with Arthritis it can be an incredibly painful illness, but to the outsider there's nothing to see.Things you can do in the morning you couldn't repeat later in the day. Making it difficult to keep any sort of job going.

You need to ring the Benefits Agency tell them you do not agree with the decision and ask for all documentation which led to the making of the decision for your father. You don't need a slicitor but you will need to have all your evidence corroborated and to tell the tribunal exactly what your father is able to do.

You'll be able to see if any of your descriptions do not match with the descriptions written by the assessor and you'll be able to see what your best line of attack should be, for example if they have said your father does his own washing and you have said he can only put washing in a washing machine once a week because of bending etc then that would be something you could challenge, because I believe I'm right in saying, it's what can be done most often or not done. So if you can only manage something once a week because of pain I believe you'd be assessed as not being able to do it.

Anyway if you need further help once you've got your evidence back then come back, try and feel optimistic, it's a scary time but if you know your father's a genuine case then things should go your way.
Good Luck

Last edited by nad1611; 18-03-2011 at 4:38 PM.
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