The ReadMe sticky - any additions, changes, updates needed?

squeaky
squeaky Posts: 14,129
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Morning all :)


The majority of the ReadMe sticky is now in place and the general layout is set (though it can readily be changed if needed) as is most of the presentation.

I'd really appreciate any comments you may have on what is there (including negatives... I'm a big boy now and I can take it, honest :)). The aim here is to try and make it as useful and easy to read as possible given the fact that the subject is regulations, legislation and so on.

If at any time in the future you spot a post or a thread that catches your eye and you think "that should be in the FAQs" then by all means post here and point to it.

Please remember that we cannot just copy stuff wholesale because of copyright laws - though a short quote with a link to the site concerned is fine.

All typos and errors are mine. I get to the point that my brain sees what I meant to write and not what's really there :)
Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
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Comments

  • squeaky
    squeaky Posts: 14,129
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    A question that often comes up is of the form:-

    My item broke down x many days/weeks/months out of guarantee - what can I do?

    We can point to the FAQs on partial refunds and perhaps the negotiating with companies thread, but is there a general step by step approach that we could build into a FAQ?

    When and where a given regulation may help, when negotiation and good will are the best (only?) options...
    Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
  • somethingcorporate
    somethingcorporate Posts: 9,449 Forumite
    edited 10 August 2011 at 2:02PM
    Hi guys,

    I have been working with Squeaky on a short guide to Consumer Rights regarding Deposits for the FAQ and wondered if any of you could offer any more insight or guidance. I do not profess to be an expert by any means and am certainly not a lawyer so would appreciate if any of you more in the know could please improve or correct the below.

    ----

    Is a deposit ever refundable?

    Like most consumer rights this is not a black and white answer. A deposit signifies intention to buy, provides security and a contribution to expenses that a company may incur before you pay the balance. Does this mean if you cancel your order can you get it back? Leaving morals aside, theoretically a deposit can only be retained if it is a “genuine pre-estimate of loss” incurred by the company, this can cover things like administration, paperwork, time spent on the order and any other legitimate costs that the seller would have incurred as a direct result of your cancellation. If the deposit figure is arbitrary, not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the retention of the deposit would amount to a financial penalty then this would be unlawful under common law. More from the OFT guidance on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (1999):

    “Where customers cancel...and the supplier suffers loss as a result, they [the customer] cannot expect a full refund of all prepayments. But a term under which they always lose everything they have paid in advance, regardless of the amount of any costs and losses caused by the cancellation, is at clear risk of being considered an unfair penalty.”

    (More information on unfair terms here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311.pdf )

    Only "genuine losses" can be retained so things like loss of profit (for instance) would not be included as the company still own the asset and can still sell it at the given price.

    It would be down to the seller to justify to the court that retention of a deposit was reasonable and would not amount to a financial penalty. There are many factors that determine what value would be reasonable or not; such as how close to the order date you cancelled, the nature of the items bought, the value of the deposit in relation to the value of the item. If you cancelled a second-hand car the day after you ordered then the retention of a £300 deposit would likely be a financial penalty. The retention the day before delivery would probably not.

    What does this mean in reality?
    Unfortunately once the company has your deposit trying to get it back is easier said than done. They may have terms in the contract that state a deposit is not refundable and may point to this if you ask for it back. It may mean you need to go to court to challenge the retention of your deposit if this is the case. It would be down to the company to justify that the retention of the deposit is reasonable. It may be easier to come to some sort of agreement after making allowances for genuine losses the company suffered as a result of your order. If they refuse to play ball then you may need to issue court proceedings via the small claims court (assuming the claim is for less than £5k via MCOL: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome).



    Thanks for reading!
    Thinking critically since 1996....
  • squeaky
    squeaky Posts: 14,129
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    As far as I can tell, most of the regulars have been on line since you posted this and, since there are no corrections or codicils posted, I'll copy it into the FAQs shortly.

    thankyou.gif
    Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
  • Equaliser123
    Equaliser123 Posts: 3,404 Forumite
    Only point I would say is that penalties are unlawful under common law rather than under any particular Regs.
  • Thanks Equaliser123. Squeaky, I have amended my post above.
    Thinking critically since 1996....
  • Esqui
    Esqui Posts: 3,414 Forumite
    Can I just say that it's a little difficult to get to the meat of the FAQs? They are halfway down a page, and many people will post a new topic instead of wading through so much text to find the bit they want. The topics they cover is great, but if they aren't accessible, then they'll be ignored.
    Squirrel!
    If I tell you who I work for, I'm not allowed to help you. If I don't say, then I can help you with questions and fixing products. Regardless, there's still no secret EU law.
    Now 20% cooler
  • squeaky
    squeaky Posts: 14,129
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    Esqui wrote: »
    Can I just say that it's a little difficult to get to the meat of the FAQs? They are halfway down a page, and many people will post a new topic instead of wading through so much text to find the bit they want. The topics they cover is great, but if they aren't accessible, then they'll be ignored.

    ? I'm not sure I follow you.

    The first post index lists everything pretty concisely without being too long.

    Then the first couple of following posts provide quick links (with a brief note) to each of the primary MSE articles...

    Then we have the bare bones of individual FAQs - i.e. the ones that have so far been suggested / created by posters.

    Just what are you considering to be "the meat"?

    Would you like to create your own idea of what the index should look like - and the order that the posts should be in?
    Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
  • Esqui
    Esqui Posts: 3,414 Forumite
    Ohhh...there are links in the first post!
    Squirrel!
    If I tell you who I work for, I'm not allowed to help you. If I don't say, then I can help you with questions and fixing products. Regardless, there's still no secret EU law.
    Now 20% cooler
  • visidigi
    visidigi Posts: 6,439
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    for me there needs to be a sticky for 'Before you post in this forum read this' and in it make it clear that people needs to start with facts and detail.

    Too many thread are started within nothing to go off - really needs to be something done in the first post :)
  • squeaky
    squeaky Posts: 14,129
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    Esqui wrote: »
    Ohhh...there are links in the first post!

    Direct links to each and every FAQ, yes :)
    Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
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