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CSA- Going self employed
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# 1
Cinders30
Old 11-02-2011, 2:13 PM
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Default CSA- Going self employed

My partner and I are starting a company and as of the 14th March he will be classed as self employed.

I called the CSA today to update the information and find out how much we will need to pay etc etc and i was told that we have the pay as we have been for 13 weeks after the 14th March and then we send in our accounts for them to work out how much we pay in the future.

It is a new business and we will be lucky to earn anything in the first few months so we simply cannot afford to pay the CSA the same amount when our circumstances have changed!

Someone there did inform me that we could pay what we could afford and arrears would build up and once our calculation is worked out we may not be in arrears anyway OR she said try and pay it and again after the 13 weeks if we have paid too much we will get it back! How will we get it back, they will have paid the money to his EX what are they going to do ask her for it back!!! i don't think so!!

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks
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# 2
Soubrette
Old 11-02-2011, 2:17 PM
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How are you going to support yourselves while your business has no income?

I believe the CSA will repay any overpayments to you and it will be them that chase the ex.

Is there any chance of coming to a private arrangement with the ex?
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# 3
Cinders30
Old 11-02-2011, 2:29 PM
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MY parents are supporting us whilst we have minimal income so we are cancelling sky, gym memberships etc etc so it is basic bills.....

Unfortunatly we were in an agreement however when the third child left college and we reduced the amount his ex contacted the CSA and set it up that way.

Our son is going to have to suffer without the luxuries for a few months so I'm afraid we all have too!
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# 4
PreludeForTimeFeelers
Old 11-02-2011, 4:03 PM
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It's unfair of them to ask you to carry on paying the same rate, is your case 'new rules' or 'old rules'?

Generally, on new rules, you would call to confirm your partner has left his job/is no longer employed, and they would nil-assess you at that point, they would then ask for your self-employed profit/loss accounts...obviously as you will just be starting up then you will probably be spending more than you are earning, but if they work out a maintenance calculation it will then be back-dated to the start of the self-employment, so try to make sure you keep approx 15% aside every week. Easier said than done, I know, but I really don't see how they would expect you to carry on with an assessment based on an income that you won't be receiving, especially when it is an easy enough matter for them to call his employer and ask them to verify that he is leaving employment.
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# 5
runforcover
Old 11-02-2011, 4:18 PM
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A few tips for you:
- document the income you receive from your family as a loan agreement with a repayment schedule to pay them back, have it witnessed by a someone too. If part is being used for building up the business try and separate this out as a loan to the business.
- Write to the CSA recorded delivery to request a change of circumstances (put this in big bold capitals and the reason for the change) and state your current income ie nil, provide an outline of your first months profit and loss account based on what you know so far, and state that you will submit your tax returns at the end of the financial year for reassessment and will pay any additional payments necessary. If you have an accountant ask him to confirm your first months trading with a letter. Copy your P45 to them too.
- you could request an interim assessment for self employment to be made by the CSA, think it's about 30-40 per week, they have a booklet on their website for self employed and they should follow their own guidance.
- If the CSA do not review your circumstances on this basis follow this up with a formal complaint using the complaints procedure and also be prepared to get an MP involved by letter.
- There may be some advantages if you set up as a limited company in terms of the share split between each of you.
- Make sure you have a partnership agreement in place between you even if you are not incorporated at companies house to show how any profits and losses are to be split 50\50 60/40 90/10. You can download this from the internet legal stationary providers. If your partner has less share of the profits because you have invested more personal capital to set up the business, the agreement will be the basis which the CSA must assess their share of any income received, otherwise they will assume 50/50.

It's worth a bit of effort at the outset as continued payments on starting up a business will kill it before you even get off the ground, and try to document any agreement between you both and have this witnessed.

Time to batten down the hatches! And don't give the PWC any info on your new business, company name, where it trades from etc. etc.. You only need to share this with the CSA if they ask and even then get some advice on what you have to give them or not.
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# 6
swingaloo
Old 11-02-2011, 4:32 PM
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Im probably not going to make myself popular with this view but I dont understand your reasoning.

Your partner has children. They are a comittment and need supporting, end of.

If you cant start your business and still support the children then why are you starting the business. You have a choice in going self employed or not and if he cant fullfill his obligations to his children by going self empolyed then perhaps you need to re think your plans or are you just assuming the childrens mum will just carry the burdon alone? Children are for life, you cant just choose not to support them.
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# 7
speedster
Old 11-02-2011, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swingaloo View Post
Im probably not going to make myself popular with this view but I dont understand your reasoning.

Your partner has children. They are a comittment and need supporting, end of.

If you cant start your business and still support the children then why are you starting the business. You have a choice in going self employed or not and if he cant fullfill his obligations to his children by going self empolyed then perhaps you need to re think your plans or are you just assuming the childrens mum will just carry the burdon alone? Children are for life, you cant just choose not to support them.
mmmmmmmmm.

lovely attitude to go through life with.

so, because he has children it means he cant go for it and try to better himself, which by the way will benefit his children in the long run if successful.

mind you, that's just the kind of response i've come to expect on here.

Cinders, don't worry about the csa for the time being. if the business doesn't do too well for the first year or 2, then assessments will be minimal anyway.

i would advise setting a sranding order up for whatever you feel you can afford then see what happens with the business. if there's no profit then there's no profit. end of.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. THEY'LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

and, please. only thank when appropriate. not to boost idiots egos.
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# 8
swingaloo
Old 11-02-2011, 5:01 PM
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so, because he has children it means he cant go for it and try to better himself, which by the way will benefit his children in the long run if successful.


Not at all, but I believe that if you have children you support them. We all have dreams and ambitions but the reality is that he has made a choice to have these children, you cant choose not to support them. Would you suggest that the taxpayer should pay for his children while he persues his dream.
And no Im not an embittered ex who feels hard done by. I have a partner who has children by his ex to support and if it means we dont have all the luxuries and options we would like thats tough. He had children, he has to support them, I wouldnt want it any other way.

I cant understand people who dont give a damn if there children have to go without.
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# 9
swingaloo
Old 11-02-2011, 5:03 PM
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Cinders, don't worry about the csa for the time being. if the business doesn't do too well for the first year or 2, then assessments will be minimal anyway.

i would advise setting a sranding order up for whatever you feel you can afford then see what happens with the business. if there's no profit then there's no profit. end of.

Thats the way! See how much you can get away with. Just out of interest- who is going to provide for the children if there is no profit?.

lovely attitude to go through life with.

Well if looking after your responsibilities by supporting your offspring means you have a bad attitude- bring it on.

Last edited by swingaloo; 11-02-2011 at 5:06 PM.
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# 10
kelloggs36
Old 11-02-2011, 5:59 PM
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I agree - it looks very selfish - as long as the NRP is okay then stuff his old family! Is it a choice of going self employed or starving, or changing jobs to take a chance of making it better later? If the latter, then I agree with Swingaloo - make sure you factor in the costs of your children before embarking on such a risk.
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# 11
AnnaV
Old 11-02-2011, 6:08 PM
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Could he not carry one working, you set up the business until it starts making a profit?
Anna
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# 12
tattycath
Old 11-02-2011, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swingaloo View Post
Im probably not going to make myself popular with this view but I dont understand your reasoning.

Your partner has children. They are a comittment and need supporting, end of.

If you cant start your business and still support the children then why are you starting the business. You have a choice in going self employed or not and if he cant fullfill his obligations to his children by going self empolyed then perhaps you need to re think your plans or are you just assuming the childrens mum will just carry the burdon alone? Children are for life, you cant just choose not to support them.
He is not choosing not to support his kids from what i've read. Also if you read the OP's posts their child is going to be treated the same as the ex's children. For all we know his job could be ending and this way is better than going on income support etc. Forward planning etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
mmmmmmmmm.

lovely attitude to go through life with.

so, because he has children it means he cant go for it and try to better himself, which by the way will benefit his children in the long run if successful.

mind you, that's just the kind of response i've come to expect on here.

Cinders, don't worry about the csa for the time being. if the business doesn't do too well for the first year or 2, then assessments will be minimal anyway.

i would advise setting a standing order for whatever you feel you can afford then see what happens with the business. if there's no profit then there's no profit, end of.
I agree with you speedster-if we all had that attitude no one with kids would ever set up in business on their own, No doubt if and when the business is a roaring success, the posters saying he shouldn't go self employed will be saying he should only pay the same amount of maintenance he paid before he became self employed. (roll eyes)
With the flexibility of being self employed you get more flexibility with your hours to a degree (obviously with self employment you tend to work more hours anyway but can be more flexible too)-this can help with relationships with children who don't live with you-access etc etc

OP-I say go for it and follow speedsters advice-good luck!! x
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# 13
speedster
Old 11-02-2011, 7:20 PM
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finally. some sense amongst the ranks on here!

yes, child support is important, but there is life after marriage.

who knows, the OP could be stuck in a dead end job earning peanuts, and has decided to go for it and improve his life. which in turn will aid his children.

but, noooooooo. according to this forum, he should stay in his dead end job and not improve himself, just so he can carry on paying the ex a chunk.

typical of the attitudes on here. pathetic, blinkered one sided drivel.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. THEY'LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

and, please. only thank when appropriate. not to boost idiots egos.
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# 14
speedster
Old 11-02-2011, 7:26 PM
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just to add, setting up my own business was by far the best thing i've EVER done.

my hours are far more flexible. for example, the mrs cant drive at present after an op, so i'm doing school runs and stuff cos i can juggle work as i'm da boss.

i also have more time to for my eldest daughter who is with us a lot, i can pick her up from school rather than getting home after a dead end job at 5 o clock etc, etc, etc.

added bonus is the CSA are a distant memory for me. the ex got fed up on a fiver a week and we now have a private agreement where i provide what is needed for our daughter. which, for the "wimmin" on here was what i offered her years ago, she was just greedy and thought she could use the CSA to destroy me (her words) epic fail.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. THEY'LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

and, please. only thank when appropriate. not to boost idiots egos.
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# 15
Soubrette
Old 11-02-2011, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinders30 View Post
MY parents are supporting us whilst we have minimal income so we are cancelling sky, gym memberships etc etc so it is basic bills.....

Unfortunatly we were in an agreement however when the third child left college and we reduced the amount his ex contacted the CSA and set it up that way.

Our son is going to have to suffer without the luxuries for a few months so I'm afraid we all have too!
Can your parents afford to 'sub' you the CSA payments until they are paid back to you, as part of your living costs?

Make sure you keep all evidence of your reduced lifestyle as well so the PWC can't claim you are living a lifestyle inconsistent with income and also proof of any loan or gifts that your parents give you.

If the PWC asks for a variation then all your business and personal details will need to be disclosed and the PWC will be entitled to see all the evidence.

When I went down this route with my ex husband he had to disclose both his personal and business accounts (including credit cards and loans inc his mortgage) for the last 3 years and his partner was also asked to disclose financial details. You really want to avoid this if possible as the PWC loses a little bit of time, it is you that will have to put in a lot more time, effort and lost of privacy.
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# 16
tattycath
Old 11-02-2011, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
just to add, setting up my own business was by far the best thing i've EVER done.

my hours are far more flexible. for example, the mrs cant drive at present after an op, so i'm doing school runs and stuff cos i can juggle work as i'm da boss.

i also have more time to for my eldest daughter who is with us a lot, i can pick her up from school rather than getting home after a dead end job at 5 o clock etc, etc, etc.

added bonus is the CSA are a distant memory for me. the ex got fed up on a fiver a week and we now have a private agreement where i provide what is needed for our daughter. which, for the "wimmin" on here was what i offered her years ago, she was just greedy and thought she could use the CSA to destroy me (her words) epic fail.

And i'm sure you're daughter benefits far more now that you're self employed hun-ours do, my OH can drop them off at school and spend much more quality time with them in general-and pay maintenance too-it's win win!!
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# 17
chriszzz
Old 11-02-2011, 8:11 PM
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Id suggest to stay on top of the childrens maintenance that the csa have suggested. Once you send your accounts in you will then both know exactly what the csa has calculated you pay in maintenance.

I take my hat off to you both for having the bottle to take a risk....could be the best thing you ever do to enhance yours and the childrens life!!

Good Luck with your Company!
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# 18
tattycath
Old 11-02-2011, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soubrette View Post
Can your parents afford to 'sub' you the CSA payments until they are paid back to you, as part of your living costs?

Make sure you keep all evidence of your reduced lifestyle as well so the PWC can't claim you are living a lifestyle inconsistent with income and also proof of any loan or gifts that your parents give you.

If the PWC asks for a variation then all your business and personal details will need to be disclosed and the PWC will be entitled to see all the evidence.

When I went down this route with my ex husband he had to disclose both his personal and business accounts (including credit cards and loans inc his mortgage) for the last 3 years and his partner was also asked to disclose financial details. You really want to avoid this if possible as the PWC loses a little bit of time, it is you that will have to put in a lot more time, effort and lost of privacy.
The Non resident parents' partner does not have to disclose any of their financial details or NI details to CSA-only the nrp has to do that
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Post 593 1% club #24 390.41/1400 No42 19/50
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# 19
Soubrette
Old 11-02-2011, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tattycath View Post
The Non resident parents' partner does not have to disclose any of their financial details or NI details to CSA-only the nrp has to do that
Usually this is the case and indeed I believe they can still refuse to do this at a variation but then the assumption will be that there is a reason that they do not wish to disclose these details.

I know this because my ex also refused to disclose those details and received a stern letter advising that he was legally required to do so.

A variation is heard in front of a tribunal which is part of our legal system.

ETA I know this because as the opposing party I was copied into all correspondence that was sent or received by my ex.
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# 20
POPPYOSCAR
Old 11-02-2011, 8:46 PM
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Was in a similar position some years ago and it has all worked out for the good.

I wish you all the best with your new business- be prepared for lots of hard work and sometimes sacrifice but it is all worth it in the end.
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