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  • FIRST POST
    cagneyfan
    Esa: Support group, means tested?
    • #1
    • 20th Jan 11, 5:59 PM
    Esa: Support group, means tested? 20th Jan 11 at 5:59 PM
    Hi,
    I'm sick of trying to figure out all the info on ESA. I'm sick with worry. I get Incapacity benefit (no income support)

    Can someone tell me please - If by some miracle I pass the medical when it looms, and if I get put in the Support group. Am I right in thinking I won't be forced to go out and do a job I'm not capable of doing. And will any savings I have be taken into account. I read this site, get confused, then upset, then stop reading for a while, then get really churned up and can't think straight.

    Am I also right in thinking that the rates of benefit are going to be drastically cut? I keep looking at government sites etc but come away more confused.

    I thought Esa was just one particular benefit, but it seems that there's different aspects of it.
Page 1
  • dmg24
    • #2
    • 20th Jan 11, 6:05 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Jan 11, 6:05 PM
    The Support Group is not means tested.

    I am not aware of any plans to cut incapacity related benefit rates.
  • sunnyone
    • #3
    • 20th Jan 11, 7:58 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Jan 11, 7:58 PM
    Hi,
    I'm sick of trying to figure out all the info on ESA. I'm sick with worry. I get Incapacity benefit (no income support)

    Can someone tell me please - If by some miracle I pass the medical when it looms, and if I get put in the Support group. Am I right in thinking I won't be forced to go out and do a job I'm not capable of doing. And will any savings I have be taken into account. I read this site, get confused, then upset, then stop reading for a while, then get really churned up and can't think straight.

    Am I also right in thinking that the rates of benefit are going to be drastically cut? I keep looking at government sites etc but come away more confused.

    I thought Esa was just one particular benefit, but it seems that there's different aspects of it.
    Originally posted by cagneyfan
    If you pass the medical and are found to have a limited caperbility for work you will still get the same as you are getting IB but it will be frozen until ESA rates "catches up".

    If you are getting contributions based IB then ESA will also be contributions based but if you fall into the work related group plans have been mooted to limit the benefit to 12 months contributions based and because you have been on IB you wont get the 12 months or so it has been reported in the gutter press.

    we are all screwed.
  • dmg24
    • #4
    • 20th Jan 11, 8:05 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Jan 11, 8:05 PM
    If you pass the medical and are found to have a limited caperbility for work you will still get the same as you are getting IB but it will be frozen until ESA rates "catches up".

    If you are getting contributions based IB then ESA will also be contributions based but if you fall into the work related group plans have been mooted to limit the benefit to 12 months contributions based and because you have been on IB you wont get the 12 months or so it has been reported in the gutter press.

    we are all screwed.
    Originally posted by sunnyone
    I have not seen that suggestion in any official documents.

    Are you claiming the Income based or Contribution based ESA?
    Originally posted by goffo
    The OP is currently on IB. Hence they will be on IB ESA. Keep up andy.
  • cit_k
    • #5
    • 20th Jan 11, 9:52 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Jan 11, 9:52 PM
    I have not seen that suggestion in any official documents.



    The OP is currently on IB. Hence they will be on IB ESA. Keep up andy.
    Originally posted by dmg24

    The change is retrospective when it comes in, that much is known, but no idea if it includes IB as part of the retrospective change.
    Certainly anyone who was on contrib ESA in the work group for a year, would be kicked of the day the changes came into force as they had already been on for a year.

    Would not suprise me if they said, well IB counts too...
  • cagneyfan
    • #6
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:38 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:38 PM
    Are you claiming the Income based or Contribution based ESA?

    Income based will take your savings into account, the other won't.

    Get yourself into the Support Group and they will leave you alone as they say that you are not fit for any work. They may re-test you at some later date though.

    They are saying that those on Contribution based ESA, and in the Work Group, will only get 12 months of benefit. It is much better if you can push for the Support Group as they will pay you for as long as you qualify.
    Originally posted by goffo

    I must be getting Contribution based ESA as my savings are not affected. This is really worrying as I'm concerned that at some point my savings may be taken into account.

    I know a lot of people think they should, but my savings are part of a compensation settlement and it concerns me that they'll get eaten up in everyday living expenses - rather than what I believe they were intended for - which is to help me with my health problems.

    So just to clarify. When I get the medical, I'll have less stress if I get put on "ESA - SUPPORT GROUP (CONTRIBUTION BASED). I'm wondering if this is likely, the stories I'm reading are like something out of a horror movie!

    I've also noticed from something I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the questions have been dramatically changed on the work capability test.

    Whereas it used to say something like, " I have to move/stand up etc whilst holding onto something etc due to discomfort" - now it states that you have to do so with the "help of someone." Does that mean if you're holding onto something (because you live alone and have no-one to help) that you're now as fit as a butchers dog?
  • cagneyfan
    • #7
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:41 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:41 PM
    I have not seen that suggestion in any official documents.



    The OP is currently on IB. Hence they will be on IB ESA. Keep up andy.
    Originally posted by dmg24
    What does the IB in IB ESA refer to? Does it mean incapacity benefit, or income based (I hate abbreviations!)

    This is confusing me. I'm currently on Incapacity Benefit with no income support. So does that mean I'd be on income based ESA or contribution based ESA
    Last edited by cagneyfan; 21-01-2011 at 4:44 PM.
  • dmg24
    • #8
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:45 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:45 PM
    What does the IB in IB ESA refer to? Does it mean incapacity benefit, or income based (I hate abbreviations!)

    This is confusing me. I'm currently on Incapacity Benefit with no income support. So does that mean I'd be on income based ESA or contribution based ESA
    Originally posted by cagneyfan
    You will go onto CB ESA. Ignore goffo, he is a well known troll who just tries to lead people down the wrong path.
  • cagneyfan
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:51 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 11, 4:51 PM
    You will go onto CB ESA. Ignore goffo, he is a well known troll who just tries to lead people down the wrong path.
    Originally posted by dmg24

    Thanks, of course that's assuming I get put onto that benefit. That's the worry - all these appeals and tribunals people are going through are horrendous and stressful
  • dmg24
    I know it is a very uncertain time, but the best thing to do is not to look at what is happening to others. The fact is that people are far more likely to post when things go wrong, as they don't need any help if everything has gone to plan. The system is certainly not perfect, but if you work with it hopefully things will work out for you.
  • elaine12022
    The whole ESA thing is a nightmare, cagneyfan. There is not much information coming out, and as you say, a lot of it is contradictory. What they are saying now though is that those people who are exempt on IB or who have no review date are going to be among the first to get reassessed. And that details for the new WCA are not forthcoming.

    There is more info on ww.benefitsandwork.co.uk, some of the info is free, some you have to register for.

    The date of the assessment is meant to be the date of your review on IB, but there seems to be a clause where they can do it anytime .

    I think a lot of the details are actually hazy, and seeing as how they are behind with ESA appeals and what not, how they are going to reassess everyone on IB in a relatively short space of time, I know not. As my OH says, maybe we'll all be on Universal Credit before then
  • cagneyfan
    Thank you! I was only trying to help and I am not a troll at all!!

    If you would refer yourself back, you said following my question that the OP was on IB ESA!! Now you agree with me that he is on CB ESA. Please keep up with the times.
    Originally posted by goffo

    No, I'm on Incapactity benefit with no income support
  • Billy two speakers
    Hi,
    I'm sick of trying to figure out all the info on ESA. I'm sick with worry. I get Incapacity benefit (no income support)

    Can someone tell me please - If by some miracle I pass the medical when it looms, and if I get put in the Support group. Am I right in thinking I won't be forced to go out and do a job I'm not capable of doing. And will any savings I have be taken into account. I read this site, get confused, then upset, then stop reading for a while, then get really churned up and can't think straight.

    Am I also right in thinking that the rates of benefit are going to be drastically cut? I keep looking at government sites etc but come away more confused.

    I thought Esa was just one particular benefit, but it seems that there's different aspects of it.
    Originally posted by cagneyfan

    ESA support group means your both too sick to work and too sick to think about looking for work.. even in support group you will after a period of time be re tested

    there is a chance if your on IB and are at present in the exempt IB50 paper work you will be ONE OF THE FIRST to move to ESA

    try this test

    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/index.php

    The test is based on this document which is what the new ESA50 will be based on

    http://www.ssac.org.uk/pdf/employment_and_support_allowance_regs.pdf

    could be another 4 weeks before anything is offical
    In London, you're never more than 20 feet away from someone telling you you're never more than 20 feet from a rat .
  • Billy two speakers
    Sorry this is the final document being used to work out what the test will be

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-capability-assessment-review-addendum.pdf
    In London, you're never more than 20 feet away from someone telling you you're never more than 20 feet from a rat .
  • Cranny44
    I read this on Rightsnet if any interest to you, posted on 27 jan:

    Mr Grayling says that the DWP intends to have a limited, introductory phase in every centre, carried out in the same controlled conditions as Burnley and Aberdeen, and that - 'At the end of February, we will begin this introductory phase. Letters will be sent to 1,000 customers a week nationally, marking the commencement of their reassessment. So a total of around 300 people will be assessed in each reassessment centre over this period. In April, we will step up the implementation and increase the number of cases to around 7,000 a week. From May we will be processing the full case load of around 11,000 cases per week. This steady ramp up of activity will ensure that Jobcentre Plus and its partners are ready and can deal with the volume of cases as it builds. Customers' reactions to the changes will be closely monitored and lessons applied.'






    So i guess your letter may be in the post sooner rather than later and your situation will be resolved for you.... although i wouldnt hold my breath they have never yet migrated all income support claimants with children to tax credits and that started several years ago..



    As for the group placements this seems to be inconsistant on my case load i have clients in full time residential care in the work group??? and more able people in the community in the support group..
    Updating .................................................
  • cit_k
    So, they are going to start with the most ill people, and learn 'lessons' from the failures.
    I suppose, the most ill people will be the ones who are less likely to be able to appeal or kick up a stink, so it keeps the publicity down and appeal figures low,which is what they need at the start of the move, as it will be scrutinised by the media (a little bit anyway).
  • Billy two speakers
    As for the group placements this seems to be inconsistant on my case load i have clients in full time residential care in the work group??? and more able people in the community in the support group..
    Originally posted by Cranny44
    Thats not a supprise and if you go back 20 odd years people in care homes got bussed to remploy factories and did a full days work as did people in Legion homes .... the fact they are in care homes with support might work against them the way they have the rules set.. as all the tests these days look at what they can still do, not whats wrong with the person. that "more able" person has not in there eyes got the support so being able to carry out tasks and function might be harder

    remember its not a sick note now its a FIT NOTE
    In London, you're never more than 20 feet away from someone telling you you're never more than 20 feet from a rat .
  • melbury
    ESA support group means your both too sick to work and too sick to think about looking for work.. even in support group you will after a period of time be re tested

    there is a chance if your on IB and are at present in the exempt IB50 paper work you will be ONE OF THE FIRST to move to ESA

    try this test

    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/index.php

    The test is based on this document which is what the new ESA50 will be based on

    http://www.ssac.org.uk/pdf/employment_and_support_allowance_regs.pdf

    could be another 4 weeks before anything is offical
    Originally posted by Billy two speakers
    Have just read some of the ssac.org document. Is Incapacity Benefit paid at a much higher rate than ESA? Sounds like it is a much better benefit to be on and presumably was much easier to get than under the new ESA rules.
    Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time

  • G-Man66
    im on IB + dla its at about 96 quid a week,is it more than the newer version? the first year it was a lot lower, and i get dla ive been reading a bit on the gov site, what made me? was why i never got cold weather payments and others did and IB was not means tested hence why i dont get the payments,
    i have no savings so damn annoying i can tell you ! from what i can gather the gov dont like the idea of not being means tested? and there is also a lot of people that shouldnt be on it i know one, that doesnt have anything wrong with them they are just damn lazy and their whole family know how to play the system, this person gets the same dla as i do plus what ever benefit gets cold weather payments i think it the newer IB MEANS TESTED? so i can see why it has to be done but also a lot of people seem to be getting hurt because of the new system
    and doing the sickest first is that really how they are doing it ? because they will be the group least likely to complain for sure !
    i guess i must be in line for a surprise assessment? before my last year of my award runs out ? every one by 2014 isnt it ?
    and i thought at last i didnt have to jump though any more hoops when i got my dla ,
    i must read up more on it i guess, but its so depressing when you know there is more upset ahead dont you ?
    thanks for the thread this place is so cool ive been a lurker for a year or so!
    kind regards G
    Last edited by G-Man66; 03-02-2011 at 11:42 PM.
  • steven123
    Hi ,i went sick in oct 2009 and after consulting with my doctor i was made unemployed in nov 2009.Because i was off sick at the time, i was told i could not be a jobseeker as i was not fit for work at the time.I was told that i would be assesed for esa allowance.Because i had paid enough contributions i was assesed for contribution based esa. in jan 2010 i was examined at the request of the dhss to find out if i actually had the medical conditions that i claimed i had.After this was confirmed at the medical, i recieved within a week, a request to attend a second medical. This medical was to assess how my illness affected my ability to work and which group i was put in.I was placed in the work support group which meant that in the doctors opinion i was limited as to my capacity to work.I was sent copies of the reports which are available on request, i noticed that on the second report that the doctor had reccommended a further medical/review in 6 months.I have now been on esa contributionary based for 15 months during which time i have taken part in 6 compulsary work based interviews which may be telephone interviews,this is at the discretion of the jobcenter.My wife has a full time job and i, a small pension.Please be aware that if you are in reciept of income based esa,this could trigger an automatic payment of working tax credit if you were to apply.In my case this happened to me by mistake,even when i rang and asked where the money had come from i was told it was mine.Two months later they asked for the money back as they had based my application on income based esa not contributionary based.Also income based esa claimants will find it easier to claim council tax rebate,free prescriptions,vouchers for glasses etc. Income based and contribution based esa are paid at the same rate and i asked if my contributionary based rate would ever change to income based rate .I was told that the only way that it could change was if i resumed work for at least 6 months i coulre-apply but i would then probably be again put on contributionary based.or if my wife gave up work i may be entightled to income based otherwise i would remain on contributionary based esa for as long as i am unable to work provided that the dwp doctor agrees.The medicals are routine as on my last medical it was agreed that i have an ongoing condition that is more likely to get worse than better but the physician said that i will always have to attend an annual medical and that she had recommended another in 12 months.
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